John Williams - Munich

[JohnnyD 1,220]

Hello. I just watched the bonus features on Munich (the 2 Disc DVD Collector's Edition). On the featurette that discussed the score, there was a shot of a cue sheet. The cue shown was 2M9 "Drawing Straws." Does anybody know what the other cue titles are for the rest of the score?

Also, a general discussion of the score is welcome, such as thematic material, Lisbeth Scott's hauntingly beautiful vocals, dark orchestration, etc.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

We know the following cue titles.

1M3A Gaining Entry

1M19 Broadcast Report

1M21 Hatikvah

Hatikvah Band Source

2m52 Bonding

2m59 Drawing Straws

2m60 Stalking Carl

2m60 NEW Stalking Carl

4m116 BA Hotel Room Bomb

6m157 Greek Hotel

6m164 ? (cue title undecipherable)

6m173 The Death of Eli

6m202 Finding Carl

7m190 (Overlay) London Rain

7m194 From Bus to Helicopter

7m207 The Death of Jeanette

7m211 Avner Alone and Death of Robert

7m211N Paranoia and Robert's Death

8m216 Explosion and News of Robert

8m220 Meeting with Louis

8m272 End Credits

[crumbs 14,287]

On 7/26/2014 at 3:14 AM, Sharky said:

We know the following cue titles.

1M3A Gaining Entry

1M19 Broadcast Report

1M21 Hatikvah

Hatikvah Band Source

2m52 Bonding

2m59 Drawing Straws

2m60 Stalking Carl

2m60 NEW Stalking Carl

4m116 BA Hotel Room Bomb

6m157 Greek Hotel

6m164 ? (cue title undecipherable)

6m173 The Death of Eli

6m202 Finding Carl

7m190 (Overlay) London Rain

7m194 From Bus to Helicopter

7m207 The Death of Jeanette

7m211 Avner Alone and Death of Robert

7m211N Paranoia and Robert's Death

8m216 Explosion and News of Robert

8m220 Meeting with Louis

8m272 End Credits

 

Is that the complete cue list? From first glance there's some cues missing, such as Letter Bombs (should be between 2M60 and 4M116), Attack at Olympic Village (should be between 1M21 and 2M52), The Raid in Tarifa, Hiding The Family and Remembering Munich. Not to mention all the concert arrangements (at least 4 by my count).

 

Judging by that cue list, the film underwent some editorial changes after the scoring sessions. 6m173 The Death of Eli is one of the film's earliest cues, the flashback which occurs when Avner is on the plane from Israel (although the first half of the film version is different from the album version). Also, Finding Carl before the London Rain sequence is chronologically reversed. There were seemingly three versions of Robert's Death and I believe Williams combined two of these into OST 07 Bearing the Burden, while the film revision remains unreleased.

 

2m59 Drawing Straws and 8m220 Meeting with Louis appear to be unused and unreleased, the latter cue incorrectly named (Avner meets with Ephraim in the final scene, not Louis).

[Jay 37,249]

Is the OST track "Bearing the Burden" a bunch of cues from different parts of the movie edited together, or is it music for a long scene (or connected series of scenes)?

[crumbs 14,287]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Is the OST track "Bearing the Burden" a bunch of cues from different parts of the movie edited together, or is it music for a long scene (or connected series of scenes)?

 

I did a complete OST breakdown for Munich last year which placed all the music, but now I can't find it on my computer. Annoying!

[Jay 37,249]

I haven't seen the film in a long time and don't remember anything about the music in it

[crumbs 14,287]

40 minutes ago, Jay said:

I haven't seen the film in a long time and don't remember anything about the music in it

 

I have no immediate recollection of where the first 2:23 belongs. It'll be somewhere towards the end of the film. It's not from the assassination of the woman.

 

2:49-4:41 sounds very similar to the film cue when Avner is staring longingly inside a kitchen display house 2:12:18 in the film. The lovely french horn that closes the film scene is sadly missing from the OST track, and the OST features a clarinet + accordion presentation of the main theme, instead of just clarinet as in the film. Film version might be a revision.

 

There's a definite cue change at 4:41. I'm certain the music thereafter accompanies Avner getting paranoid and searching his house for bombs, also the bombmaker's house exploding. From 2:08:40 in the film.

 

EDIT:

 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Is the OST track "Bearing the Burden" a bunch of cues from different parts of the movie edited together, or is it music for a long scene (or connected series of scenes)?

 

You're in luck @Jay. I found the spreadsheet.

 

So it seems there were two versions for both the Avner Alone/Robert's Death and News of Robert's Death/Kitchen Display sequences.

 

For the OST, Williams opted to use the non-film versions in both instances, then reversed the order they were presented.

 

Someone with the sheets might be able to verify this is 100% accurate. I did this back in 2017.

[BrotherSound 2,241]

13 hours ago, crumbs said:

Someone with the sheets might be able to verify this is 100% accurate. I did this back in 2017.

You could just tag me, @crumbs! 😛

 

Anyway, I can fill in some of the blanks:

 

1 Munich, 1972 2:37

0:00-1:05 8M239 Remembering Munich

1:05-1:29 1M3 Outside the Fence

1:29-end 1M3A Gaining Entry

 

2 The Attack At Olympic Village 3:00

9M43 First Flashback

 

3 Hatikvah (The Hope) 2:02

1M21 Hatikvah

 

4 Remembering Munich 4:38

8M239 Remembering Munich

 

5 Letter Bombs 2:49

0:00-0:58 9M99 Letter Bombs / 9M99 String Addition

0:58-1:32 R6M157 Greek Hotel

1:32-end 4M116BA Hotel Room Bomb

 

6 A Prayer For Peace 3:51

Avner’s Theme Strings

 

7 Bearing The Burden 8:12

0:00-4:39 7M211N Paranoia and the Death of Robert

4:39-end 7M211 Avner Alone and the Death of Robert

 

8 Avner And Daphna 4:02

Oboe Theme

 

9 The Tarmac At Munich 3:59

0:00-3:06 7M194 From Bus To Helicopter

3:06-end 7M207 The Death Of Jeannette

 

10 Avner’s Theme 3:07

Avner’s Theme [solo guitar]

 

11 Stalking Carl 4:25

0:00-2:13 2M60 Stalking Carl

2:13-end 6M202 Finding Carl

 

12 Bonding 1:57

0:00-0:37 2M52 New Beginning - Bonding [guitar plays clarinet solo]

0:37-end 2M52 Bonding [guitar plays clarinet solo]

 

13 Encounter in London And Bomb Malfunctions 3:38

0:00-1:20 7M190 London Rain / 7M190 Overlay - London Rain

1:20-end 6M164 Russians, And The Bomb Malfunctions / 6M164 2nd Overlay

2:29-2:54 6M164 Overlay

 

14 Discovering Hans 2:47

0:00-0:53 7M230 Discovery Of Hans (Oboe Version)

0:53-1:45 8M230 Discovery Of Hans (Bonding Version)

1:45-end 8M230 Discovery Of Hans (Clarinet Version) [piano plays clarinet and cello solos]

 

15 The Raid In Tarifa 2:04

2M60 New - Stalking Carl

 

16 Thoughts Of Home 4:04

Oboe Theme [cello plays oboe solo 8vb]

 

17 Hiding The Family 1:28

9M259 Brooklyn Street

 

18 End Credits 4:05

8M272 End Credits

 

We’ve seen a few cases where OST tracks combine a cue and an alternate, ‘Dorinda and Pete’ from Always and ‘Bearing the Burden’ here, for example, but I think ‘Discovering Hans’ must be the only case of three versions of a cue in one track!

[Jay 37,249]

WOW!  Fascinating information here, will take a bit to unpack

 

So both "Avner And Daphna" and "Thoughts of Home" are a cue called "Oboe Theme"!?  But for "Thoughts of Home" they used the same sheet music, just had a different instrument take the lead?

 

And then both "A Prayer For Peace" and "Avner’s Theme" are a both more album-only recordings, but this time it's actually two separate sheets - "Avner’s Theme Strings" and "Avner's Theme".

 

Wow!

Four concert arrangements on one OST, that's super rare for any Williams OST album!

[BrotherSound 2,241]

59 minutes ago, Jay said:

So both "Avner And Daphna" and "Thoughts of Home" are a cue called "Oboe Theme"!?  But for "Thoughts of Home" they used the same sheet music, just had a different instrument take the lead?

Yep, that’s it! It’s identical. Literally the only change is subbing cello for oboe. 
 

He probably just decided on a whim to try it with cello, and liked the results enough to include both on the album, though separated by quite a bit of music in between.

 

59 minutes ago, Jay said:

And then both "A Prayer For Peace" and "Avner’s Theme" are a both more album-only recordings, but this time it's actually two separate sheets - "Avner’s Theme Strings" and "Avner's Theme".

Right. Here’s the complete cue list for reference:

 

Munich Vocal Opening

1M3 Outside The Fence

1M3A Gaining Entry

1M3A New Start - Gaining Entry

1M19 Broadcast Report

1M21 Hatikvah

9M43 First Flashback

2M52 Bonding

2M52 New - Bonding

2M52 New Beginning - Bonding

2M59 Drawing Straws

2M60 Stalking Carl

2M60 New - Stalking Carl

9M99 Letter Bombs

9M99 String Addition

4M116B Hotel Lamp

4M116BA Hotel Room Bomb

4M122 Kitchen Motel Window (Guitar Version)

4M122 Kitchen Motel Window (String Version)

R6M157 Greek Hotel

6M164 Russians, And The Bomb Malfunctions

6M164 Overlay

6M164 2nd Overlay

6M173 The Death of Eli

7M190 London Rain

7M190 Overlay London Rain

7M194 From Bus To Helicopter

6M202 Finding Carl

7M206 Approaching The Houseboat

7M206N Approaching The Houseboat

7M207 The Death of Jeannette

7M211 Avner Alone and the Death of Robert

7M211N Paranoia and Robert’s Death

7M211NX New Ending

8M216 Explosion and News of Robert

8M220 Meeting With Louis

8M230 The Discovery of Hans (Bonding Version)

8M230 The Discovery of Hans (Clarinet Version)

7M230 Discovery of Hans (Oboe Version)

8M237 Raid In Spain

8M239 Remembering Munich

9M259 Brooklyn Street

8M272 End Credit

Avner’s Theme [solo guitar]

Avner’s Theme Strings

Katikva (Band Source)

Oboe Theme

Untitled Loops

 

I think the ordering makes sense only if you just ignore the reel numbers. I can’t figure out much rhyme or reason to those.

[crumbs 14,287]

Wow!! That complete cue list is a huge help!

 

When I did my film score breakdown above, this was all I had to work off as far as assigning cue titles:

 

On 7/26/2014 at 3:14 AM, Sharkissimo said:

We know the following cue titles.

1M3A Gaining Entry

1M19 Broadcast Report

1M21 Hatikvah

Hatikvah Band Source

2m52 Bonding

2m59 Drawing Straws

2m60 Stalking Carl

2m60 NEW Stalking Carl

4m116 BA Hotel Room Bomb

6m157 Greek Hotel

6m164 ? (cue title undecipherable)

6m173 The Death of Eli

6m202 Finding Carl

7m190 (Overlay) London Rain

7m194 From Bus to Helicopter

7m207 The Death of Jeanette

7m211 Avner Alone and Death of Robert

7m211N Paranoia and Robert's Death

8m216 Explosion and News of Robert

8m220 Meeting with Louis

8m272 End Credits

 

I had no idea there were so many individual cues... wow!

 

4 minutes ago, BrotherSound said:

9M43 First Flashback

 

Reel 9? I'm guessing this scene was edited very early and sent to Williams for scoring before it was actually placed in the film proper.

 

A bit like all the Reel 0 cues from TLJ.

 

Do you know the timings? ie, could the complete score fit on one CD? The OST is already 63 minutes and has ~90% of what's in the film.

[BrotherSound 2,241]

47 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Reel 9? I'm guessing this scene was edited very early and sent to Williams for scoring before it was actually placed in the film proper.

 

A bit like all the Reel 0 cues from TLJ.

Oh yeah, apart from reel 9, the other discrepancies could all be explained by the reels getting rebalanced in editing.

 

47 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Do you know the timings? ie, could the complete score fit on one CD? The OST is already 63 minutes and has ~90% of what's in the film.

Hmm, let’s add up the unreleased cues:

 

Munich Vocal Opening 1:04

1M3A New Start 0:20

1M19 Broadcast Report 1:18

2M52 New - Bonding 0:43

2M59 Drawing Straws 0:47

4M116B Hotel Lamp 1:00

4M122 Kitchen Motel Window (Guitar Version) 0:49

4M122 Kitchen Motel Window (String Version) 0:49

7M206 Approaching The Houseboat 1:08

7M206N Approaching The Houseboat 1:08

7M211NX New Ending 0:35

8M216 Explosion and News of Robert 0:32

8M220 Meeting With Louis 1:45

8M237 Raid In Spain 1:30

Katikva (Band Source) 1:20

Untitled Loops 0:45

 

That’s about 15 minutes altogether, and there’s a good chance there’s additional recordings of some of the other material with instruments substituted. I’d bet on there being a recording of 8M230 The Discovery of Hans (Clarinet Version) with the written clarinet and cello instead of piano, for example.

 

So, it’d either be very close or just past the limit, depending on what actually got recorded. Not a problem anyone will need to contend with until there’s some AFM rule changes, of course.

 

Side note: it’s remarkable to see this many alternates for a score from Williams’ extremely busy 2005.

[crumbs 14,287]

Especially considering the ridiculously tight post production schedule the film had.

 

45 minutes ago, BrotherSound said:

2M52 New - Bonding 0:43

2M59 Drawing Straws 0:47

 

Curious about these. What was the new Bonding like? Seems it went totally unused. 

 

And the drawing straws scene is unscored in the film. Can you please describe what Williams wrote there? 

[BrotherSound 2,241]

1 minute ago, crumbs said:

Curious about these. What was the new Bonding like? Seems it went totally unused?

Nothing terribly different: it’s basically a shortened version that cuts the intro and the second statement of the theme, by the violins.

 

3 minutes ago, crumbs said:

And the drawing straws scene is unscored in the film. Can you please describe what Williams wrote there?

Some fairly basic suspense music: pulsing timpani, low strings, and piano throughout, with a couple dissonant, sustained chords in the low brass and high strings.

[Corellian2019 383]

Just out of curiosity, if the new version of 2m60 (Stalking Carl) was in fact switched to the scene in Tarifa, then what is the music heard in the film in place of 2m60n?

[JohnnyD 1,220]

7 hours ago, BrotherSound said:

Yep, that’s it! It’s identical. Literally the only change is subbing cello for oboe. 
 

He probably just decided on a whim to try it with cello, and liked the results enough to include both on the album, though separated by quite a bit of music in between.

 

Right. Here’s the complete cue list for reference:

 

Munich Vocal Opening

1M3 Outside The Fence

1M3A Gaining Entry

1M3A New Start - Gaining Entry

1M19 Broadcast Report

1M21 Hatikvah

9M43 First Flashback

2M52 Bonding

2M52 New - Bonding

2M52 New Beginning - Bonding

2M59 Drawing Straws

2M60 Stalking Carl

2M60 New - Stalking Carl

9M99 Letter Bombs

9M99 String Addition

4M116B Hotel Lamp

4M116BA Hotel Room Bomb

4M122 Kitchen Motel Window (Guitar Version)

4M122 Kitchen Motel Window (String Version)

R6M157 Greek Hotel

6M164 Russians, And The Bomb Malfunctions

6M164 Overlay

6M164 2nd Overlay

6M173 The Death of Eli

7M190 London Rain

7M190 Overlay London Rain

7M194 From Bus To Helicopter

6M202 Finding Carl

7M206 Approaching The Houseboat

7M206N Approaching The Houseboat

7M207 The Death of Jeannette

7M211 Avner Alone and the Death of Robert

7M211N Paranoia and Robert’s Death

7M211NX New Ending

8M216 Explosion and News of Robert

8M220 Meeting With Louis

8M230 The Discovery of Hans (Bonding Version)

8M230 The Discovery of Hans (Clarinet Version)

7M230 Discovery of Hans (Oboe Version)

8M237 Raid In Spain

8M239 Remembering Munich

9M259 Brooklyn Street

8M272 End Credit

Avner’s Theme [solo guitar]

Avner’s Theme Strings

Katikva (Band Source)

Oboe Theme

Untitled Loops

 

I think the ordering makes sense only if you just ignore the reel numbers. I can’t figure out much rhyme or reason to those.

Cool! Thank you.

[Thor 7,451]

On 7/25/2014 at 6:07 PM, JohnnyD said:

Also, a general discussion of the score is welcome, such as thematic material, Lisbeth Scott's hauntingly beautiful vocals, dark orchestration, etc.

 

Yeah, I can't contribute much in terms of the nuts-and-bolts discussion of film sequencing, alternates, missing tracks etc. etc. , as that is not something that interests me very much. But I absoutely adore the score. "Hatikvah - The Hope" steals the show as the most gorgeous cue on the album, but obviously it's due to the existing beauty of the Israeli national anthem. But the segue from that into Williams' own music is picture perfect. In many ways, the score is the zenith of Williams' fertile 2000-2005 period where the modular style of composition is combined with these discrete folkloristic colours and elegant themes. It's also arguably the best film Williams scored in the 2000s (well, except for A.I., of course).

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

24 minutes ago, Thor said:

except for A.I., of course

 

Yeah, the expanded release was a revelation.

[GerateWohl 4,320]

27 minutes ago, Thor said:

It's also arguably the best film Williams scored in the 2000s (well, except for A.I., of course).

No, that was Catch Me if You Can in my opinion. I would not go so far calling it underrated, but it is to me one of Spielberg's best works as a director. 

[Edmilson 7,367]

I really like Munich, it is indeed the best movie Spielberg has done since the turn of the century in my opinion. Minority Report would be in second place.

[Thor 7,451]

I rank Spielberg's films in the period thusly:

 

1. A.I.

2. MUNICH

3. MINORITY REPORT

4. CATCH ME IF YOU CAN

5. WAR OF THE WORLDS

6. THE TERMINAL

 

But I think they're all fine movies. THE TERMINAL is terribly underrated.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

9 minutes ago, Thor said:

But I think they're all fine movies. THE TERMINAL is terribly underrated.

 

Also by you.

[Thor 7,451]

He, he. It's a fine movie; it just can't top the other ones on the list.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

When you think that The Terminal is the weakest among them, I find it's really show how great Spielberg movies from the 00's are.

I would rank them this way:

1. War of the Worlds

2. A.I.

3. Minority Report

4. Munich

5. Catch Me If You Can

6. The Terminal

7. KOTCS (although I don't really count this one as a Spielberg movie from the 00's)

[Edmilson 7,367]

15 minutes ago, May the Force be with You said:

7. KOTCS (although I don't really count this one as a Spielberg movie from the 00's)

Yeah, this one I prefer to forget that it existed.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

He, he. It's a fine movie; it just can't top the other ones on the list.

 

I'd say it's at least more satisfying than WotW.

 

2 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Yeah, this one I prefer to forget that it existed.

 

Who?

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

9 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Yeah, this one I prefer to forget that it existed.

I won't go that far. It's not extraordinary but I've never found it as awful as most people here.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

It's extraordinarily bad.

[Thor 7,451]

25 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I'd say it's at least more satisfying than WotW.

 

WAR is a fantastic movie.

 

KOTCS is from 2008, so falls outside the period in question.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

11 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

It's extraordinarily okay.

Fixed

[artguy360 1,842]

I like a lot of moments in this score, especially the many variations on the main theme, but I do not enjoy listening to the entire soundtrack from beginning to end. 

 

The prominent use of a heartbeat like synthesized effect is cool in the film, but I do not find those tracks musically enjoyable. 

[GerateWohl 4,320]

Why I rate CMIYC so high, apart from many other reasons, is that when it comes to emotional scenes and the protagonists expressing emotions Spielberg's presentation is for my taste often over the top, often even lapping into being cheesy. In Catch Me if You Can he managed to keep the balance perfectly. 

But yes, Munich is a great movie, too.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

It's the prequel to Craig's Bond.

[artguy360 1,842]

I listened to the soundtrack front to back yesterday, and it is exactly like I remember it: not very memorable. The darker orchestrations, vocal work, and the string writing is all very nice, but the score just doesn't leave much of an impression. It will probably be a few years before I listen to it again.

[Edmilson 7,367]

@Jay could you please add the link for the post below to the list of Williams' OST albums breakdowns here?

 

On 02/06/2021 at 1:19 PM, BrotherSound said:

You could just tag me, @crumbs! 😛

 

Anyway, I can fill in some of the blanks:

 

1 Munich, 1972 2:37

0:00-1:05 8M239 Remembering Munich

1:05-1:29 1M3 Outside the Fence

1:29-end 1M3A Gaining Entry

 

2 The Attack At Olympic Village 3:00

9M43 First Flashback

 

3 Hatikvah (The Hope) 2:02

1M21 Hatikvah

 

4 Remembering Munich 4:38

8M239 Remembering Munich

 

5 Letter Bombs 2:49

0:00-0:58 9M99 Letter Bombs / 9M99 String Addition

0:58-1:32 R6M157 Greek Hotel

1:32-end 4M116BA Hotel Room Bomb

 

6 A Prayer For Peace 3:51

Avner’s Theme Strings

 

7 Bearing The Burden 8:12

0:00-4:39 7M211N Paranoia and the Death of Robert

4:39-end 7M211 Avner Alone and the Death of Robert

 

8 Avner And Daphna 4:02

Oboe Theme

 

9 The Tarmac At Munich 3:59

0:00-3:06 7M194 From Bus To Helicopter

3:06-end 7M207 The Death Of Jeannette

 

10 Avner’s Theme 3:07

Avner’s Theme [solo guitar]

 

11 Stalking Carl 4:25

0:00-2:13 2M60 Stalking Carl

2:13-end 6M202 Finding Carl

 

12 Bonding 1:57

0:00-0:37 2M52 New Beginning - Bonding [guitar plays clarinet solo]

0:37-end 2M52 Bonding [guitar plays clarinet solo]

 

13 Encounter in London And Bomb Malfunctions 3:38

0:00-1:20 7M190 London Rain / 7M190 Overlay - London Rain

1:20-end 6M164 Russians, And The Bomb Malfunctions / 6M164 2nd Overlay

2:29-2:54 6M164 Overlay

 

14 Discovering Hans 2:47

0:00-0:53 7M230 Discovery Of Hans (Oboe Version)

0:53-1:45 8M230 Discovery Of Hans (Bonding Version)

1:45-end 8M230 Discovery Of Hans (Clarinet Version) [piano plays clarinet and cello solos]

 

15 The Raid In Tarifa 2:04

2M60 New - Stalking Carl

 

16 Thoughts Of Home 4:04

Oboe Theme [cello plays oboe solo 8vb]

 

17 Hiding The Family 1:28

9M259 Brooklyn Street

 

18 End Credits 4:05

8M272 End Credits

 

We’ve seen a few cases where OST tracks combine a cue and an alternate, ‘Dorinda and Pete’ from Always and ‘Bearing the Burden’ here, for example, but I think ‘Discovering Hans’ must be the only case of three versions of a cue in one track!

I was listening to Munich today, went searching for the OST breakdown and couldn't find it on the main thread for it. Also, I'm quite sure there are others @BrotherSound breakdowns who aren't listed there. Thanks!

[Jay 37,249]

On 13/08/2023 at 10:19 PM, Edmilson said:

@Jay could you please add the link for the post below to the list of Williams' OST albums breakdowns here? 

 

Done!