Chen G. 3,949 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 53 minutes ago, publicist said: There should be a quota, like no fanboy shall devote himself to more than 10 mentions per trilogy/month. I'm not a fanboy of any particular franchise. I'm a fan of good cinema. In my activity on this board, I've probably mentioned Braveheart twice as often than The Middle Earth films. Like I said once, I'm not convinced that anyone ever convinced anyone of anything on JWFan; and that's perfectly natural: humans are stubborn bastards. So, I'm not out to change anyone's mind. I'm just trying to create a more nuanced discussion, perhaps with less strong, one-sided opinions; but more importantly still, I'm trying to make people - even those with a strong dislike to a film, to understand where others are coming from when they earenstly defend that film; and vice versa. I certainly see where a lot of these criticisms are coming from; and I suppose a lot of the participants in this discussion can at least see my point, as well, even if they don't necessarily agree with them. I'm not of the opinion that film, at least a dramatic one, is an abstract and totally subjective form of art. But there's nothing, in the internet's culture of discussing films, that I dislike as much as people dooming not just films but also the people who like them. No-one should be ashamed of liking a film, if they can explain their enjoyment of it rationally. In a way, the film itself is secondary to the logic used in defending or criticizing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,221 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 What is the best trilogy? The Hobbit trilogy The The Lord of the Rings trilogy The original Star Wars trilogy The Star Wars prequel trilogy The Back to the Future trilogy The first three Bourne films trilogy The Godfather trilogy The Cavalry trilogy The Dollars trilogy The Care Bears trilogy The Apu trilogy The Noriko trilogy The Three Colours trilogy Guadagnino's Desire trilogy Von Trier's Depression trilogy The Girl Who Kept Getting into a Right Pickle trilogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Just now, Glóin the Dark said: The The Lord of the Rings trilogy That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chen G. said: I'm not a fanboy of any particular franchise. I'm a fan of good cinema. I've probably mentioned Braveheart twice as often than The Hobbit. You're in a jokey mood today, i see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Where's the Indiana Jones Trilogy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 He's probably counting that as a tetralogy due to, well, that film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,221 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Holko said: Where's the Indiana Jones Trilogy? That's not a trilogy - that's three good films plus the Temple of Doom! Holko, Chen G. and Simon McBride 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Oh, but The First Three Bourne Films Trilogy counts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, Chen G. said: I'm not a fanboy of any particular franchise. I'm a fan of good cinema. In my activity on this board, I've probably mentioned Braveheart twice as often than The Middle Earth films. Like I said once, I'm not convinced that anyone ever convinced anyone of anything on JWFan; and that's perfectly natural: humans are stubborn bastards. So, I'm not out to change anyone's mind. I'm just trying to create a more nuanced discussion, perhaps with less strong, one-sided opinions; but more importantly still, I'm trying to make people - even those with a strong dislike to a film, to understand where others are coming from when they earenstly defend that film; and vice versa. I certainly see where a lot of these criticisms are coming from; and I suppose a lot of the participants in this discussion can at least see my point, as well, even if they don't necessarily agree with them. I'm not of the opinion that film, at least a dramatic one, is an abstract and totally subjective form of art. But there's nothing, in the internet's culture of discussing films, that I dislike as much as people dooming not just films but also the people who like them. No-one should be ashamed of liking a film, if they can explain their enjoyment of it rationally. In a way, the film itself is secondary to the logic used in defending or criticizing it. I don't think you were around here Chen when these films came out. Trust me, they've been discussed, argued, reasoned, defended and flailed to death, and with great nuance, as per your concern. You should have been here before the release of AUJ. When that first teaser came out, with those 90 seconds of Shore music to boot, we were all buzzing with excitement, ready to welcome the Second Coming. Even Lee was over the moon for it. And then wave by wave, with each passing installment, we tried to justify the films and our reactions to them (trust me, every angle you could possibly think of has been argued for, and refuted in the hundreds of threads in the Tolkien subforum) and ultimately came to a collective resignation to the colossal fuck-up that it was. Which sadly enough, was something PJ himself would acknowledge in public. Ultimately, the Hobbit films have occasional moments and can even make for passable entertainment (the third one aside), but they are by no means good cinema. Nick1Ø66 and John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,221 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Holko said: Oh, but The First Three Bourne Films Trilogy counts? Sure! There are three films in the "The First Three Bourne Films" set... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 3 hours ago, KK said: Heavenly Creatures is easily PJ's best film outside of LOTR. Not even close. This. Nick1Ø66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Quintus said: This. That. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, KK said: Ultimately, the Hobbit films has occasional moments and can even make for passable entertainment (the third one aside), but they are by no means good cinema. I would argue that they range from good to very good between the three of them, and I have my logic to back this up. You disagree, that's fair. That's exactly where subjectivity enters the picture: not so much in identifying what merits and demerits a film has, but in assesing their weight on the whole. Its true of all but the truly atrocious movies. Even though I've just poked fun at Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, I can see where some viewers would be coming from, were they to stand up and defend it, as long as they explain why they liked it in a way that's coherent. Can you really not do the same here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 3 hours ago, KK said: AUJ remains the best Hobbit film. And this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I've only seen the second one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 You've seen the best one. Its the only one of the sextet that I can just pop-in and watch. The Lord of the Rings films I almost never watch unless I'm watching the whole thing from beginning to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Chen G. said: I would argue that they range from good to very good between the three of them, and I have my logic to back this up. You disagree, that's fair. That's exactly where subjectivity enters the picture: not so much in identifying what merits and demerits a film has, but in assesing their weight on the whole. Its true of all but the truly atrocious movies. Even though I've just poked fun at Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, I can see where some viewers would be coming from, were they to stand up and defend it, as long as they explain why they liked it in a way that's coherent. Can you really not do the same here? Maybe all this would be easier to take if you once in a while would seriously discuss a film beyond glossy Hollywood product ca. 1990 upwards. It would add a bit of interest and you wouldn't have to squander all those mighty words on so transparently irrelevant compromised, commercial pictures which are often enough frowned upon even by their makers. Or maybe i'm wrong, but i always see your name popping up in these contexts. mrbellamy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Sadly, the Hobbit films are best forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, publicist said: glossy Hollywood [...] transparently irrelevant, compromised, commercial pictures Although I've studied film theory, I'm a very casual filmgoer. I don't watch many films per year, and I usually only watch the big films. There's nothing wrong with that. Professional film critics, in particular, suffer from having to watch so many films each year, that it becomes more of a chore than a passion. I profoundly disagree that big, contemporary Hollywood productions are in any way less artistic or dramatically effective than smaller and/or older films. If anything, it were such films as The Lord of the Rings trilogy that proved that the grandeur and scale of the film and the production can also inform the grandeur of the drama taking place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Just now, Chen G. said: Although I've studied film, I'm a very casual filmgoer. I don't watch many films per year, and I usually only watch the big films. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't really go to the cinema much at all these days, but I still watch hundreds of films per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,358 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 23 hours ago, JoeinAR said: People were absolutely silent in my theatre. They still but I couldnt hear that. I could see others jumping with the rest of us-out of the corner of my eye. Seriously this new generation of soft sissies who are afraid to go the movies. You are what abortions are necessary for. This 'soft sissy' is 47 and isn't 'afraid' to go to the movies, he's just pissed off at what he sees as a decline in the general courtesy (we've all paid good money to see the movie, therefore we've all got the right to watch it as 'undisturbed' by others as possible) shown by some audience members to their fellow patrons. And yes, I know that I could wait for the DVD/on-demand release ... but it's just not the same as the big screen, is it? I'd thank you not to repeat the suggestion that I would've been better off aborted. Completely fucking uncalled for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Although I've studied film theory, I'm a very casual filmgoer. I don't watch many films per year, and I usually only watch the big films. There's nothing wrong with that. Professional film critics, in particular, suffer from having to watch so many films each year, that it becomes more of a chore than a passion. Wait...you *studied* film and that's the result? Laboring over Hobbit and Star Wars movies? What kind of movies beyond those you had to acquaint yourself with in your studies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 The Private Popsicle series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,528 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 The HOBBIT films aren't the three best films ever made, that's for sure, but...anything with Doctor #7 in it, is worth watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,658 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Richard said: The HOBBIT films aren't the three best films ever made, that's for sure, but...anything with Doctor #7 in it, is worth watching. Except, ironically, the actual Dr. Who episodes from his era. Settle down, I am kidding (though The Happiness Patrol is dreadful). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I recently re-watched Peter Jackson's The Hobbit trilogy. What did you guys think of them? Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,221 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 They needed more of the Tauriel and Fili storyline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 6 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said: This 'soft sissy' is 47 and isn't 'afraid' to go to the movies, he's just pissed off at what he sees as a decline in the general courtesy (we've all paid good money to see the movie, therefore we've all got the right to watch it as 'undisturbed' by others as possible) shown by some audience members to their fellow patrons. And yes, I know that I could wait for the DVD/on-demand release ... but it's just not the same as the big screen, is it? I'd thank you not to repeat the suggestion that I would've been better off aborted. Completely fucking uncalled for. If you followed this thread you would realize that I was just responding to your post but I was not calling you or referring to you as a soft Sissy, look around the other post near yours and you'll see who I'm talking about and I am absolutely fine with calling for their post-birth abortions. Sweeping Strings 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Here's my take on the Hobbit trilogy: An Unexpected Journey was way too long, but I thought it was a mostly satisfying return to Middle-earth with likeable characters and a lighthearted atmosphere. Desolation of Smaug had higher highs than Journey, but its lows really showed the cracks in the storytelling that became way too reliant on weightless CGI to fill the screen with nonsense. Battle of the Five Armies is all just that. It's just little bits of story spread thin, and just weightless CGI. It has moments of great acting and emotional scenes, but sadly, it almost completely drops the ball when it comes to being a self-contained, coherent, and enjoyable movie on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 5 hours ago, John said: Battle of the Five Armies is all just that. The Battle doesn’t start until the midpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Oh, crap, I thought I stumbled into the Tolkien subforum for the first time. Is this what that place is like? I'd rather get an lobotomy in a back alley from an orangutan holding a butter knife and a Polaroid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 7 hours ago, Chen G. said: The Battle doesn’t start until the midpoint. I'm talking about the film as a whole, not just the battle. 12 hours ago, John said: Battle of the Five Armies is all just that. It's just little bits of story spread thin, and just weightless CGI. I know you disagree, and that's fine, but BOTFA is just not a very good movie. Which is a shame, because even as flawed as the first Hobbit was, the first hour did so much to build up the dynamics and heart between the dwarves, Gandalf, and Bilbo. And then you get to BOTFA, and all of that has been flushed away in service of empty CGI spectacle. Last time I rewatched the trilogy, I enjoyed the first two and I genuinely believe they're fine movies. The third one killed all my enthusiasm, and I haven't revisited the trilogy since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 On 4/9/2018 at 3:46 PM, JoeinAR said: People were absolutely silent in my theatre. They still but I couldnt hear that. I could see others jumping with the rest of us-out of the corner of my eye. Seriously this new generation of soft sissies who are afraid to go the movies. You are what abortions are necessary for. 19 hours ago, Sweeping Strings said: This 'soft sissy' is 47 and isn't 'afraid' to go to the movies, he's just pissed off at what he sees as a decline in the general courtesy (we've all paid good money to see the movie, therefore we've all got the right to watch it as 'undisturbed' by others as possible) shown by some audience members to their fellow patrons. And yes, I know that I could wait for the DVD/on-demand release ... but it's just not the same as the big screen, is it? I'd thank you not to repeat the suggestion that I would've been better off aborted. Completely fucking uncalled for. 12 hours ago, JoeinAR said: If you followed this thread you would realize that I was just responding to your post but I was not calling you or referring to you as a soft Sissy, look around the other post near yours and you'll see who I'm talking about and I am absolutely fine with calling for their post-birth abortions. Sorry @JoeinAR, I agree with @Sweeping Strings... too far man, too far. No one wants to read that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,333 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Why would anyone be afraid to go the theatre? Is it unsafe these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 52 minutes ago, John said: I know you disagree, and that's fine, but BOTFA is just not a very good movie. Which is a shame, because even as flawed as the first Hobbit was, the first hour did so much to build up the dynamics and heart between the dwarves, Gandalf, and Bilbo. And then you get to BOTFA, and all of that has been flushed away in service of empty CGI spectacle. Last time I rewatched the trilogy, I enjoyed the first two and I genuinely believe they're fine movies. The third one killed all my enthusiasm, and I haven't revisited the trilogy since. Well, it does suffer from the trappings of a concluding film, which tend not to be all that great, in the same way that the first film suffers from the trappings of an establishing film in terms of pace. But, to my mind, even if the CG is not convincing, the battle itself isn't empty because it does leverage some good drama. The relationship between Bilbo and the Dwarves pays off multiple times, such as when Bofur allows Bilbo to leave, no questions asked; and especially when Bilbo attests to the character of the Dwarves' in front of Thranduil and Bard. Even a small moment like Dwalin, who we last see try to follow Thorin as he walks into Azog's trap, coming back to help Bilbo as Bolg arrives. Its also kind of an extension of Thorin's inner struggle, or at least a cause of tension within the company, due to Thorin's refusal to get involved. One of the reasons I've said that I've grown to like Dwalin more on rewatches was that I noticed that he has one of the most well-defined individual arcs of all the Dwarves: he moves from being Thorin's most blindly-loyal follower, to standing up to him. That happens because of the battle. And of course, once the company does get involved, it pays off the animosity of Thorin and Azog, as well. The main thing that gets short-changed is actually Thranduil's personal story, in favor of Tauriel's romance. But both of those were secondary storylines from the outset, and do not take a lot of the film's running time either way. I do mind that their stories conclude after Thorin's death. As Lindsay pointed out, it kind of dilutes the drama. But it certainly doesn't undermine it for me entirely. But, as you said, we disagree, and that's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,012 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Alexcremers said: Why would anyone be afraid to go the theatre? Is it unsafe these days? Well, only if you live in America. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 20 hours ago, crocodile said: Well, only if you live in America. Karol No. Get a fucking clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Can he phone a friend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,358 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 On 11/04/2018 at 2:25 AM, JoeinAR said: If you followed this thread you would realize that I was just responding to your post but I was not calling you or referring to you as a soft Sissy, look around the other post near yours and you'll see who I'm talking about and I am absolutely fine with calling for their post-birth abortions. That's OK then, sorry for the misinterpretation. JoeinAR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 On 4/11/2018 at 9:17 AM, Jay said: Sorry @JoeinAR, I agree with @Sweeping Strings... too far man, too far. No one wants to read that. I weep for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted April 13, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted April 13, 2018 On 4/11/2018 at 3:37 PM, Alexcremers said: Why would anyone be afraid to go the theatre? Is it unsafe these days? Not really. But in Lincoln's day it was a bitch. Sweeping Strings, Jurassic Shark and JoeinAR 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 "It used to be a lot worse. They had this giant hammer!...oh look, they brought it back!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fancyarcher 350 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Isle of Dogs - Anderson's latest stop-motion offering may not hit the highs of say Fantastic Mr. Fox, but it's still a great clever entertaining time, with memorable characters, Plus igreat animation, strong vocal performances, and some surprisingly really good political commentary. Plus it's really funny too. - 8 / 10 John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,829 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 On 10/4/2018 at 9:32 PM, Glóin the Dark said: What is the best trilogy? The Hobbit trilogy The The Lord of the Rings trilogy The original Star Wars trilogy The Star Wars prequel trilogy The Back to the Future trilogy The first three Bourne films trilogy The Godfather trilogy The Cavalry trilogy The Dollars trilogy The Care Bears trilogy The Apu trilogy The Noriko trilogy The Three Colours trilogy Guadagnino's Desire trilogy Von Trier's Depression trilogy The Girl Who Kept Getting into a Right Pickle trilogy That one of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 No mention of the Star Trek Trilogy? Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,528 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 6 hours ago, Stefancos said: No mention of the Star Trek Trilogy? Yes. II, III and IV should be viewed as one story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,358 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 A Quiet Place - this sci-fi horror is a bit of a slow-builder, but ends up a very tense nerve-shredder. As for the audience ... aside from a teenage girl a few rows in front of me who I had to tell to put her phone away (she did it, too ... and there was no smart-mouthing and didn't take it out again during the film), they weren't too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Congrats on a mostly positve theatre experience SS. Sweeping Strings 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeping Strings 2,358 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 If I come across as a grumpily intolerant middle-aged git who's old enough to remember when people had more damn respect for their fellow patrons ... it's because I am . JoeinAR and Naïve Old Fart 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,528 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Fuckin' A! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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