.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,345]

but what's this story about the second being Kirk's wife?

In Gene Roddenberry's novelization, it is Kirks wife, I think the Commentary states the same thing. (but the commenter may have been using the Book as the source of that "info")

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Andy 4,118]

I always thought Next Gen should've tied into this, having the Borg be the offshoot of the Decker/Ilia/V'Ger merging. The Borg have a similar M.O. As V'Ger, with the assimilation of matter to grow and evolve. Adding the human element of Decker/Ilia makes perfect sense in the machine/man mashup that the Borg were. Even the Borg Queen was a missed opportunity to show Decker and Ilia "plugged in" at the heart of the Borg home world.

[Wojo 2,453]

That is one of the central tenets behind William Shatner's "Shatnerverse" novels. I only read "The Return" and I really enjoyed it, but I never sought out the others. When Spock touches V'Ger, he touches Borg technology, and is later able to interface with characters that had also been assimilated, namely Picard and...spoilers!

Maybe the fact that The Motion Picture was such a critical and commercial failure meant Paramount wanted to distance any future installments from it. That meant not "diluting" the Borg by claiming they came from something as "taboo" as The Motion Picture. Personally I love the ideas you present, but I didn't work for Paramount in the mid 90s. Still don't, actually.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The Borg/V'ger link is stupid. Keep them separate.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree. It always seemed like a fanboy wet dream to me.

[Wojo 2,453]

You shouldn't talk about The Shat that way.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm sorry!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

There was a mystique to V'ger and the technology built around that piece of space junk. To create a tenuous link with the Borg is like the shrinking universe in SW where everyone is somehow related.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What?

[Wojo 2,453]

V'Ger sought its creator.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No...ofcourse not!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That never happened!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nope, none of the books are in any way canon. Only the TV shows and the movies are. I believe not even the animated series is canon, though Paramount may have changed their minds about that.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Chekov might already have been on the Enterprise, just not a bridge officer.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm only telling you what the official Star Trek canon is according to Paramount, BTW.

Absolute continuity should not be expected from a franchise that has lasted almost 50 years and has had hundreds of writers, producers, directors etc contributing.

[Wojo 2,453]

Star Wars books and other media (games, comics, cards, etc.) are not canon. That's why they're covered at Memory Beta instead of Memory Alpha. They're apocryphal.

The shows and movies have terrible continuity. We're supposed to just accept it and move on.

[Trent B 337]

Star Wars books and other media (games, comics, cards, etc.) are not canon. That's why they're covered at Memory Beta instead of Memory Alpha. They're apocryphal. The shows and movies have terrible continuity. We're supposed to just accept it and move on.

Exactly this.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

The fact that Khan recognizes Chekov has bugged fans for years but it's a perfectly reasonable plot device.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's something that escaped the writers and the director. But it really isnt a important plot error. It's very easy to forget that Pavel was only in 2 seasons.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Star The: The Motion Picture

Interesting that while the success of Star Wars is undoubtedly what led to this movie being made, it follows Kubrick's 2001: ASO transcendental voyage rather then the good versus evil space adventures of Star Wars. As such the film deals with issues and death, ressurection and evolution. All aspects that have featured on the original series in some way. yet never this grand in scale.

This is indeed a huge film in both it's ambition and execution, which is what sets it apart from both it's parent TV show and the subsequent films. That scale is both what makes it unique, and what, in many way makes it uniquely un-Star Trek.

Visually the film is undeniably impressive. The Enterprise, fresh from it's refit looks fantastic. It was always a good looking design, but in the 60's it looked like this:

In 1979 it suddenly looked like this:

A beautiful design finally beautifully rendered!

Design wise the movie makes some smart choices. For it's first part is takes it's time to show of The Enterprise. And for the second part, it uses that same ship to really drive home the epic size of the Vejur entity.

There are some amazing shots of the Enterprise absolutely dwarfed by it.

Special effects wise, the Enterprise and the Vejur interiors are the best parts of the film. Other parts feel clunky. :Like the Klingon cruisers in the beginning, or some shots of the Epsilon station, Vulcan...

It's actually interesting to see how much the effects improve after the shaky first 14 minutes or so.

Roddenberry and his writers, and Wise certainly succeeded in making a sci-fi epic. But by doing they they also allow Vejur to dwarf the characters.

While in TOS the great characters (especially Kirk, Spock and McCoy) often made you look past the low rent sets and dodgy 60's sci-fi plots. In TMP they are overwhelmed....

The middle part of the film has endless shots of people watching silently, but open mouthed at the few screen. That would not bee such an issue if the scenes when characters did interact didnt feel so sterile.

Shatner is as laconic an actor as there is. Brimming with charisma and easy going charm. But in this film he's cold and unsympathetic. The script doesnt help, but even Shatners normal atributes as an actor barely seem present.

Same for Nimoy to some extent. Though his extreme coldness does have a justification, and is actually effective in the film. I'm not sure if Spock's reaction to "By God I'm actually pleased to see you." was intended as humorous, but it still gets a big laugh from me. Spock being a half-human popsicle does prevent this film from really having a proper Kirk/Spock/McCoy dialogue scene.

Of the entire cast Deforest Kelley comes closest to really recapturing the essence of his character. But he wasnt given a lot do do.

The only two new characters are Decker, played by a now noted child-molester, and Ilia, played by Persis Khambatu, who is quite awful in her performance as the real Ilia, but eerily effective when she is playing the Ilia-probe.

The probe is a very typical Roddenberry example of a robot. Answering questions with statements that go no where (in TOS Kirk would have talked it into destroying itself)

Vejur ofcourse is also a character, and the film does a great job representing him. Visually he's awe-inspiring and I like the idea of a probe that return home with all the knowledge of the universe. Design wise it's a pity that Vejur is so big, we never really get a good idea of how the entire structure looks like. The DE has some extra shots, but they are still a bit vague.

Interesting how much difference a decade makes. The Enterprise bridge looked like this in the 60's:

Loads of black and red. Of course the 70's was the decade of grey and brown.

Thankfully they got rid of those uniforms for the next film.

Star Trek The Motion Picture has a lot in common with Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, in that is deals with similar questions of existence. Both are the only real attempts this series of films to really "go where no man has gone before" and both are generally considered at the most flawed of the films. Trek V because the film makers lacked both the talent and budget to do such a story justice. But it has undeniable heart. TMP does have that talent, and it certainly had the budget. But heart is what it lacks.

Still overall an impressive and entertaining, even at times thoughtful movie. And the most important Star Trek film when it comes to the survival of the franchise.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Enterprise refit = design perfection.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I have a picture of it, which came with the LP, framed and hanging in my toilet.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

TWOK is important too. As it is a far better film which proved you could actually make Star Trek work in the cinema. But without TMP that film could never have bern made.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Meyer was the likeliest candidate to come in Paramount for months.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The special effects in this film are fucking incredible. They couldn't even be matched today...they'd look worse. CGI and fake. I still wonder how they pulled this shit off. I mean, obviously models and old-school practical wizardry. But it just looks so damned convincing. Not even Star Wars could ever match this. How in the hell did they do Spock's arrival? It looks like they just built the ships for real and had some astronauts shoot it in orbit.

[KK 3,307]

Interesting that while the success of Star Wars is undoubtedly what led to this movie being made, it follows Kubrick's 2001: ASO transcendental voyage rather then the good versus evil space adventures of Star Wars. As such the film deals with issues and death, ressurection and evolution. All aspects that have featured on the original series in some way. yet never this grand in scale.

So is it an Alexcremers film?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Obviously. But had TWOK failed, this would have been the end of Star Trek. This was really the franchise's last chance.

you weren't even born do not speak of things you know not.

[Wojo 2,453]

OK, nobody criticize dinosaurs anymore unless you were born then.

[Datameister 2,041]

The special effects in this film are fucking incredible. They couldn't even be matched today...they'd look worse. CGI and fake. I still wonder how they pulled this shit off. I mean, obviously models and old-school practical wizardry. But it just looks so damned convincing. Not even Star Wars could ever match this. How in the hell did they do Spock's arrival? It looks like they just built the ships for real and had some astronauts shoot it in orbit.

You'll get no argument from me on that. The film is poorly written, poorly acted, and poorly paced. It feels cold, alienating - and worst of all, boring. But my god, the visual effects are spectacular. Not all of them, but enough of them. The Enterprise has never looked better.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Anyone else reckon Roddenberry had a weird fetish for men in dresses and sandles? They're all over Starfleet Headquarters in this movie and the TNG pilot Encounter at Farpoint had a shot of an officer walking around the ship in a skirt dress thing.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Interesting that while the success of Star Wars is undoubtedly what led to this movie being made, it follows Kubrick's 2001: ASO transcendental voyage rather then the good versus evil space adventures of Star Wars. As such the film deals with issues and death, ressurection and evolution. All aspects that have featured on the original series in some way. yet never this grand in scale.

So is it an Alexcremers film?

It's a failed attempt at one.

Happy birthday TMP!

It was 35 years! Joe still remembers it like it was yesterday. The enormous hype. Sure it wasn't as big as Star Wars, but for a while Star Trek was everywhere!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,512]

I also remember it like it was yesterday. I tried to get into a screening at the Empire Leicester Square, but it was sold-out, so I saw "The Black Hole", instead. "ST:TMP" was the second most successful film of 1979. Happy (slightly belated) birthday, "TMP"!

Roll-on the 14th for another 35th anniversary...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,337]

You have only seen the TC and not the DC right? The DC fixes the pacing issues, mostly.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,337]

Well, I read that a long time ago!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,337]

I think the best thing about TMP - besides the score - is its ambition. They just hadn't figured out the production design, special effects, pacing, or tone to tell the actors to act in yet.

A modern remake of this same basic plot could be ace.

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

Anyone else reckon Roddenberry had a weird fetish for men in dresses and sandles? They're all over Starfleet Headquarters in this movie and the TNG pilot Encounter at Farpoint had a shot of an officer walking around the ship in a skirt dress thing.

Not to mention Sybok.

[BloodBoal 7,538]