Popular Post Faleel 5,345 Posted January 7, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2015 This should be the last one of these until The Hobbit CR's are released (hopefully those will be much simpler situations)"The Last Debate" or Analyzing the Return of the King CRDISC IRoots and Beginnings.The CR has the film version, the Rarities disc Track 22 "In Conversation Pt. 1" has an early version of the opening section underneath the interview audioThe OST Track 1 "A Storm Is Coming" has the opening without an string overlay.The Journey to the Cross-roads.Complete, the Live to Projection version of this track has various changes.The Road to Isengard.Complete, the Live to Projection version of this track has various changes.The CR has the EE insert at 1:25-1:52.The Foot of Orthanc.Complete.Return to Edoras.The CR has the EE version, the Battle for Middle-Earth II has the TE version.The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes.The Chalice Passed.Complete, the CR has EE music.The Green Dragon.The CR has the EE version, it is possible to remove the vocals using the 5.1 DVD.Gollum's Villainy.Complete.Eowyn's Dream.Complete, EE Music.The Palantir.Complete, the Live to Projection has music using THE HEROICS OF ARAGORN that would go between this track and Eowyn's Dream, and music underscoring Gandalf discussing Sauron's plan.Flight from Edoras.The CR has the EE ending and The Battle for Middle-earth has the TE ending.The Grace of Undomiel.The CR has the final version, the OST has an alternate passage, the rarities has the earlier version with Arwen's Song and a mockup of an even earlier version.The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes (and extra music for Arwen dropping the book).The Eyes of the White Tower.Complete, part of the track was deleted from the TE.A Coronal of Silver and Gold.Complete, part of the track was deleted from the TE.The Lighting of the Beacons.The CR has the final version, The Battle for Middle-Earth II has the theatrical version, the OST has an early version.The Live to Projection version of this track has extra choir for the statement of Nature's Reclamation at the end.In the film, portions of this track and Osgiliath Invaded are mixed together using rescored transitionsEND OF DISC IDISC IIOsgiliath InvadedIn the film, portions of this track and The Lighting of the Beacons are mixed together using rescored transitionsThe Stairs of Cirith UngolThe CR has the film mix with the dialed out Cor Anglais, the OST has the full mixAllegiance to DenethorCompleteThe Sacrifice of FaramirOST has clean opening and endingThe Parting of Sam and FrodoCompleteMarshalling at DunharrowCompleteAnduril - Flame of the WestThe CR has the film version of Anduril's reveal, the Rarities has the original version, the OST is a combination of bothThe Passing of the Grey CompanyThe CR has the film version, the Rarities has the original version using the SHIELDMAIDEN OF ROHAN theme.The Theatrical version is unreleasedDwimorberg- The Haunted MountainComplete, EE versionMaster Meriadoc, SwordthainThe CR has the film version, and the Rarities has the original versionThe Paths of the DeadCR has the EE version, OST has the TE version endingThe Siege of GondorThe CR has the film version, Rarities has the original version.The OST has a clean ending for the first partThe Live to Projection version of this track has various changesShelob's LairThe Live to Projection version of this track has various changesMerry's Simple CourageCompleteDISC IIIGrond - The Hammer of the UnderworldCR has the EE version, Battle for Middle-earth 2 has the TE versionShelob the GreatComplete, OST has clean ending for the defeat of ShelobThe Tomb of the StewardsComplete, EE versionThe Battle of the Pelennor FieldsThe OST has an additional percussive opening and extra brass overlays.The Live to Projection version of this track has various changesThe Pyre of DenethorComplete, EE versionThe MumakilCompleteDernhelm in BattleComplete, EE version, TE version in Fan Credits"A Far Green Country"CompleteShieldmaiden of RohanComplete, The CR has the EE version, The Rarities has the TE versionThe Passing of TheodenCompleteThe Houses of HealingThe CR has the EE film edit, CR Disc 3: Track 13: The Last Debate has the intended cue (minus Pippin finding Merry) at 1:58.The Fan Club credits has an alternate take of the music for Pippin finding MerryThe Tower of Cirith UngolComplete, Battle for Middle-earth 2 has the TE versionThe Last DebateThe CR has the EE version, Battle for Middle-earth 2 and The Third Age have the TE versionThe Land of ShadowThe CR has the EE version, Battle for Middle-earth 2 has the TE versionThe Live to Projection version of this track has various changesThe Mouth of SauronThe CR has the film version, The OST has the original versionThe Bonus DVD included with the Limited Edition OST has an alternate version of the passage at 3:18 (ascending instead of descending)The Live to Projection version of this track has various changes"For Frodo"The CR has the full mix, The EE DVD Scene Selections menu has the film mixThe Live to Projection version of this track has various changesEND OF DISC IIIDISC IVMount DoomCompleteThe Crack of DoomThe CR has the film version, The Rarities has the Original versionThe EaglesCompleteThe Fellowship ReunitedThe CR has the film mix, The Limited Edition OST bonus DVD has a dialed out whistle statement of the Hymn setting, The OST has a bit of dialed out fiddle, the LOTR symphony has the restThe Live to Projection version of this track has various changesJourney to the Grey HavensCompleteElanorThe CR has the film version, The Rarities has the Original versionDays of the RingThe Rarities has demo of an unused ending song called "Frodo's Song".CR Disc 4: Track 7: Days of the Ring, The Bonus DVD included with the Limited Edition OST, and Track 23 of the Rarities disc "In Conversation Pt. 2" combined have a version of Frodo's Song featuring Sir James Galway called "Frodo's Song V2".The Bonus DVD included with the Limited Edition OST has the unused song "Use Well The Days" sang by Annie Lennox.The OST has Into The West and the original version of the "Wagner Ending"The CR has an edit of Frodo's Song V2, Into The West and the film version of the "Wagner Ending"A promo has a version of Into The West with additional Acoustic Guitar.The Live to Projection version of this track has various changesBilbo's SongCompleteEND OF DISC IVComparing the Lord of the Rings Symphony CD to the OST/CR(Timestamps refer mostly to the OST tracks, some timestamps refer to the CR when applicable)DISC II MOVEMENT VHope and Memory/Flight from Edoras.The LOTR Symphony uses the OST track.Minas Tirith/Osgiliath Invaded.The Symphony mostly uses the OST track, but uses the CR ending.The White Tree/The Eyes of the White Tower and The Lighting of the Beacons.The Symphony uses the OST track, and segues to....The Steward of Gondor/The Sacrifice of Faramir.The Symphony uses the OST track, but with an additional intro and The Edge of Night omitted.Cirith Ungol/The Stairs of Cirith Ungol and The Parting of Sam and Frodo.The Symphony uses the OST track, with more prominent horns.Anduril/Anduril - Flame of the West.The Symphony uses the OST version with a slightly re-orchestrated ending.END OF DISC II MOVEMENT VDISC II MOVEMENT VIThe Fields of the Pelennor/The Battle of the Pelennor Fields.The Symphony uses the OST track.Hope Fails/The Paths of the Dead.The Symphony uses the OST track, and segues to...The End of All Things/Sammath Naur/Mount Doom, The Cracks of Doom, and The Eagles.The Symphony uses the OST track, with more prominent Brass and Percussion, extra percussion at 1:45-1:50, and the Fellowship theme omitted. The Symphony then segues to....The Return of the King/The Fellowship Reunited.The Symphony uses the OST track, with numerous sections omitted, more prominent brass, additional wordless choir at 6:14-7:22, additional Bodhran at 6:48-7:22, and an extra phrase of fiddle at 8:59-9:04. The Symphony then segues to...The Grey Havens/The Journey to the Grey Havens.The Symphony uses the OST track with numerous sections omitted.Into the West/Days of the Ring.The Symphony uses OST track, but with the CR/film ending.END OF DISC II MOVEMENT VI AND THE END OF THE LOTR SYMPHONY The Illustrious Jerry, darkspine10 and Incanus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 come on, there's so many Hobbit/LotR threads it's overwhelming the board.This is exactly why some people want a Hobbit sub-forum and nowI think Ricard should do exactly that. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 It's a little late to start a LOTR/Hobbit subforum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Well people are still making pointless new ones every day (also in forms of polls for specific type cues). It's pretty depressing opening General Discussion if your not a LotR fanboyI was willing to ride the wave but this kind of opened the sore again. It always comes to the point when there's one too many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Hi Faleel. I don't hate your thread. Don't feel bad. Discuss what you want. bollemanneke and SafeUnderHill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The OST Track 1 "A Storm Is Coming" has the opening without an string overlay.I think you meant that the OST has the opening "with an additional string overlay" or something along those lines.Looking forward to seeing the finished thread. I love the other two! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Why not finish the analysis of TTT first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 come on, there's so many Hobbit/LotR threads it's overwhelming the board.This is exactly why some people want a Hobbit sub-forum and nowI think Ricard should do exactly that.Yeah I'll possibly return more regularly again if it ever happens. Until then though I'll be low to no profile here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Is it worth leaving the board just to avoid skipping over a couple threads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 And there he is again, saying he's not here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I'm not leaving I'm just not participating much. And like KM, Joey and others have said having to filter out the LotR stuff is a turn off. No biggie tho tbh, it's easy not bothering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 It's a shame that it's too late for a sub-forum because I have nothing against the discussions taking place. It just gets a little tedious having to skip over them. Anyway, I think I'm done posting in this topic as I no longer want to get in the way of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,345 Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 The OST Track 1 "A Storm Is Coming" has the opening without an string overlay.I think you meant that the OST has the opening "with an additional string overlay" or something along those lines.I mean without:CR - There is an extra string overdub at 0:22-0:30http://www.lyndhursthouse.plus.com/rotk_ost_breakdown.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Is it worth leaving the board just to avoid skipping over a couple threads?It is if you have an ego the size of Liverpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,345 Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 DISC II MOVEMENT VIThe Fields of the Pelennor/The Battle of the Pelennor Fields.The Symphony uses the OST track.There's some more prominent (new?) brass stings in the Symphony version of Pelennor. Listen to those welping trumpets beginning at 2:23 into movement 6.Not new, just more prominent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 There are plenty of things I noticed for the first time in the symphony because of the wet sound of the original recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,345 Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Finally finished! for now....Let me know if there is anything I have forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Looks pretty good to me. Great job Fal! Those versed in the LotR music minutiae can probably chime in with more detailed comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome in Plaid 219 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Unless I'm mistaken there's a subtle choral overlay in the film mix of "A Far Green Country." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,345 Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Nah, probably just a film edit or a side effect of the low choir mix on the CR's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome in Plaid 219 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I swear I hear vocals before the Grey Havens theme enters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,681 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I had a DVD-rip of that bit before the CR came out, and it's definitely a light choir.I think it's taken from some other cue (maybe The Grey Havens?) with all the other layers taken out. Certainly, this is one key moment I would extract from an isolated score.Strangely I never otherwise particularly liked that scene - it's too abstract, and I also don't feel it quite works to have such a serene moment slotted in quickly in an otherwise busy section of the film. I think you need to get more of a sense of the fear of being trapped inside the city, whereas actually all it's doing is giving a quick respite from the fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,345 Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 Ah, I was confused with his usage of the word "Overlay".The rear channels of the EE documentary has part of that choir clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 The film version of A Far Green Country was tracked from The Grey Havens with some adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I seem to remember that the film version of The Crack of Doom contained the Gondor Reborn theme tracked from The Fellowship Reunited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,339 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Man, can you imagine if that film tracking was duplicated on the CR like most of FOTR's tracking? >shudder< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 FOTR's tracking was fine, and unnoticeable Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,339 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Aw. It's cute you still think that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 All of you seem to pretend its like the TPM: EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,339 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 No, not at all, not even close. Its still tracked music that shouldn't be there, and I prefer to hear what Shore intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Even if that means barely having The History Of The Ring in that score?FOTR was written over a long period of time, there are many, many afternates. There is no single Howard Shore version of the score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,339 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Of course even if it means only a few History of the Ring iterations in the score. If that's all Shore wrote, that's all I want to hear! I don't need to hear the same recording 3 times in the course of enjoying the score! And what I'm talking about has nothing to do with alternates whatsoever. I am still fine with the CRs containing one run-through of the score, from beginning to end, without a bonus track section. But I just wish FOTR didn't retain the tracking and low-choir mix of the final film, they should have gone back to the full recording sessions like they did for TTT and ROTK. I simply don't want the tracking in there. For example just before Aragorn throws the flaming torch at the last wringwraith - that's tracked in from another cue. We should have gotten what Shore wrote for that moment there. The full untouched cue. Not mostly the full cue, but with 5 seconds replaced by tracked music in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I love that little moment actually! Do we even know Shore originally scored that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 There is no single Howard Shore version of the scoreI'm sorry, wut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,339 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Why yes, we know EXACTLY how Shore scored that moment - we have the recording! Watch here:https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9SnZ1c1JYZEhlRDg/viewThe bit we're talking about happens around 0:44. His intended music was replaced by tracked music in the film and on the CR.In fact, you can hear all of Shore's intended music that was replaced by tracked music on the CR in this great thread, all synced to picture:http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23525 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I blame Canada and that Shore and his crew was still coming up with the logic of how they were going to put these things together. They obviously refined their ideas by the time TTT CR rolled along. Still I don't begrudge those versions of the History of the Ring with such vehemence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,345 Posted September 18, 2015 Author Share Posted September 18, 2015 For example just before Aragorn throws the flaming torch at the last wringwraith - that's tracked in from another cue.Actually its just tracked from eariler in the same cue. No, not at all, not even close.Its still tracked music that shouldn't be there, and I prefer to hear what Shore intended.Not to mention the looping in "Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe" and the "Pass of Caradhras", and the dialed out music in "The Mirror of Galadriel". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,339 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 And the random repeat of music that opens Strider, and a million other things that should never have been pressed to CD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I don't think the Fellowship issues are that bad - there are edits that nobody has noticed yet - but it could certainly do with a few adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Btw does any of you know is the music for Aragorn's rescue at Weathertop, that rhythmic version of Strider's theme just tracked into the Balin's Tomb section when the fellowship runs from the orcs or is that just a restatement of the same material? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Restatement. Moria was recorded long before Weathertop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Ah yes of course. How could I forget that Moria was done first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,339 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I don't think the Fellowship issues are that bad - there are edits that nobody has noticed yet - but it could certainly do with a few adjustments.Can you please point out these edits now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Why yes, we know EXACTLY how Shore scored that moment - we have the recording! Watch here:https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9SnZ1c1JYZEhlRDg/viewI prefer the final film version. More effective.I don't think the Fellowship issues are that bad - there are edits that nobody has noticed yet - but it could certainly do with a few adjustments.Indeed. And I don't think it's necessary to keep digging up every tracked bit in the CR. It's largely done rather seamlessly.I do have a quip with the low choral volume though.I blame Canada and that Shore and his crew was still coming up with the logic of how they were going to put these things together. They obviously refined their ideas by the time TTT CR rolled along. Still I don't begrudge those versions of the History of the Ring with such vehemence.Why is Canada taking all the heat all of a sudden? You should be thanking us for giving you Howard Shore in the first place!!But we apologize anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,339 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 On 9/18/2015 at 2:17 PM, KK. said: On 9/17/2015 at 7:10 AM, Jay said: Why yes, we know EXACTLY how Shore scored that moment - we have the recording! Watch here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9SnZ1c1JYZEhlRDg/view I prefer the final film version. More effective. I have no problem with these kinds of changes in the film itself - none whatsoever. But on CD, I want Shore's untouched recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Why yes, we know EXACTLY how Shore scored that moment - we have the recording! Watch here:https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9SnZ1c1JYZEhlRDg/view I prefer the final film version. More effective.I have no problem with these kinds of changes in the film itself - none whatsoever.But on CD, I want Shore's untouched recordings.Shore didn't want you to have them!But seriously the FotR CR was a sort of trial run as we have discussed before and after that they found a logic and scheme by which they would compile the TTT and RotK sets. Which is a bit unfortunate but it is still million miles better than something like the Indy Box.And I am sure we would have found something else to obsess and complain about if the CR would have been perfect. Alternates etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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