Jay

BETTER CALL SAUL

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I wonder if we ever will find out? I quite enjoy that we've not given every piece of information, but just enough to join the dots while leaving room for discussion. I trust the flashbacks will be used sparingly and wisely, and primarily as a lens to view Jimmy. Having said that, Chuck was such a compelling character in his own right that more of him wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

On 6/23/2017 at 0:59 AM, Jay said:

 But the question is...Who gets the $3 Million Hamlin gave him?  Is Jimmy the next of kin, and inherits it?  Does Chuck have a will that states it goes to Rebecca, or to charity?

 

I've thought a little about this and it does seem to be a big loose end that could provide some conflict next season. On the other hand, the $3 million seemed to only exist as a cheque given to Chuck which has also perished in the fire. As far as we're aware there has been no contracts drawn or formal agreements made, and Howard may be the only person alive aware of it. It'll be a tricky thing to bring up again so I'm curious if they go there.

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4 hours ago, Matt S. said:

I always figured that the divorce from Rebecca is what brought on his condition, especially since he was so desperate to keep her from finding out about it.  He was fine with his brother and everyone working at HHM knowing and dealing with it, but he did everything he could to keep Rebecca from finding out.  And even once Rebecca did know the truth, he hid inside his house and refused to see her. 

 

The divorce compounded it, but I think it grew from a deep-seated feeling of jealousy and inadequacy in Chuck that his ego would never allow him to face. He was the "good son" who worked hard to master his field and had the respect of friends and colleagues. He seemingly had every success in the world, and yet everyone still seemed to like Jimmy more, even his own wife. Jimmy the screw-up, the conman who had been using his charm to manipulate people his whole life. That resentment is the root of his mental illness, I think. The hidden envy of his brother. So when the things that Chuck had used to make himself feel superior fall away, he's left with nothing but self loathing. Completely alone.

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4 hours ago, Matt S. said:

 

It's also interesting that we never find out what caused their marriage to fail in the first place.  In the flashback where Rebecca visited Chuck for dinner (and he pretended the power was out, and was cooking by candlelight...), and again at Jimmy's disciplinary hearing, there was no evidence of any lingering animosity between them, in fact they seemed quite cordial with each other.  I wouldn't be a bit surprised if further flashbacks fleshed out their divorce, particularly if Jimmy was involved in any way...and then also showed the beginning's of Chuck's "allergy."

 

Actually, this sounds viable for next season. I wouldn't be surprised if Gilligan and Gould are cooking up something more elaborate than surmised here.

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By all accounts it seems like very little planning happens between seasons. The writers leave threads open but it's not until the writing room opens for a new season that they decide what do to with them and where they want to take the story. I very much like their way of writing and how they pull it off, it's very organic.

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23 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

the $3 million seemed to only exist as a cheque given to Chuck which has also perished in the fire. As far as we're aware there has been no contracts drawn or formal agreements made, and Howard may be the only person alive aware of it. It'll be a tricky thing to bring up again so I'm curious if they go there.

 

Woah, fascinating possibility

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Slip

 

Very solid episode that covers pretty much everybody on the show as we see Mike digging up the body of the good Samaritan that dies (he thinks) because of his actions. We later see him striking a deal with Gus.

 

Some updates about Chuck too, and it's mostly good. The scene where he tells the doc his day in court made him realize finally that his condition might not be real was acted beautifully. And the scene in the supermarket was fun.

 

Good stuff between Hamlin and Kim and he pretty much mobs her while she's talking to the Mesa Verde people. He's not wrong when he tells her about the damage the courtcase did to H&M. But she also rightly points out he's been perfectly willing to ignore the truth about Chuck.

 

This is all good stuff.

 

The bulk of the episode is for Jimmy though. As we see him slowly going back to his slippin' ways as a way to make the money he promised Kim (even though she doesnt really need or want it). But really he's doing it to feel good again after a period where nothing has worked for him. Another similarity between Jimmy and Walter. The scam in the music store was good, but the way he screwed over the community service guy and got 700 in drug money might be more important to the rest of the series?

 

And finally we see Nacho going ahead witrh his plan. Switching the medication. Damn that was tense! I was on the edge of my seat.

 

Good stuff! Gonna need some more of that.

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Of course. Staying spoiler free on BCS is easy

Fall

 

Damn! The edit on Kim's car crash was brilliant! Jumped up in my seat. Taking on the extra case was NOT a good idea.

 

Once again Jimmy seriously crosses some borders when he manipulates some old people to get his hand on the Sandpiper money he's entitled to when a settlement was reached. Jimmy usually comes off as quite likable even when he's being Slippin' Jimmy. But not here.The little scheme with the bingo balls was clever though. 

 

Mike meets Lydia in a scene where they are both quite guarded about the situation. So Gus has promised to launder Mike's money through Madrigal, but without taking a cut? I wonder what it will lead to.

 

The meeting between Hector and Gus, where Hector is told his shipments will go through Frings operation from now on was tense too. It actually seems to be better for everyone involved. But Hector's pride doesnt allow for it. (even though he's the one who arranged it).

The scene where Nacho tells his dad that he needs to let Hector take over for a while is strong too. I liked the detail that even after his father told him to leave the house. Nacho puts his glass in the sink. These are the kind of small details BCS and BB are filled to the brim with.

 

Chuck too is succumbing to his own pride. Sueing HHM rather than retiring gracefully. Pretending he's now normal even though he's not.

 

All these characters! One more episode!

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I think the reason Gus doesn't take a cut of Mike's existing money is because he wants to be able to hire Mike to whatever odd jobs come up in the future.  I mean by BB era, Mike is working for Gus full time right?

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19 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Finale: Lantarn

 

Fuck!

 

Perfect summation! 

 

 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

I think the reason Gus doesn't take a cut of Mike's existing money is because he wants to be able to hire Mike to whatever odd jobs come up in the future.  I mean by BB era, Mike is working for Gus full time right?

 

Yes, if I remember correctly Mike's actual job title was Director of Corporate Security for Los Pollos Hermanos.

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Unlike Lee I don't think Chuck's descent into mental illness was rushed at all.His willingness to believe he's OK, despite his doc's clear reservations were a strong sign.

Essentially this season Chuck destroyed everything close to him. He let his petty and spiteful vengeance towards his little brother damage not only his own reputation as a lawyer, but also that of the firm he build up. Hamlin is absolutely right when he tells Chucks it's time to retire. And he's also right about feeling betrayed when Chuck sues him. 

 

The scene where Howard buys Chuck off was brilliant. I liked the initial shock and even regret from Chuck when he hears Howard payed for the 3 million himself. But that soon vanishes as Hamlin essentially parades Chuck in front of the entire workforce and sees him out. 

 

So Chuck lost HHM, because of stupid pride. He then loses Jimmy, who predictably is trying to patch things up. Chuck isnt actually wrong. Even if you've never seen BB. By now everyone knows who Jimmy is, and what he's capable and incapable of. Jimmy will always end up hurting the ones he loves. And that's kinda the point. Despite everything. Despite the fact that Chuck really doesnt care too much about Jimmy. He did love him.Chuck could have swallowed his pride a little bit and retired with dignity, still being attached to HMM, and perhaps have a relationship with his brother. But he chose to wallow in pride, self pity and fall back into his old habbits.

 

Like Jimmy, Chuck was a deeply flawed and selfish character. And yet I cared about him. That's basically why these shows are so brilliant.

 

Jimmy for instance. He's defiantly done more harm than good this season. To himself, to Kim, and to Chuck. And for the first time (i think) to his clients, well former clients.

Interesting though that Kim's accident has made him realize he got his priorities screwed up. And the way he tries to undo his manipulations with Sandpiper were almost sweet. I do agree the pacing of the last episode is very fast compared to what is normal for the show. Didnt really bother me. Reminded me of the ending of season 1, where Jimmy turns on a dime, but later doesnt for S2 where it's pretty much retconned. 

 

The way things end is interesting though. Kim and Jimmy can go anywhere next year. She's gonna have less of a financial burden and Jimmy will have to find something to do that doesnt involve old people. I assume he will be pulling scams of some sort.

 

Nacho seems to be on a high point to. He was gonna take the risk and pop Hector, but things kinda worked out for him.

That look Gus gives him though. Last season he stopped Mike from Killing Hector, not he suspects Nacho might have done something? Hmmm...

 

Howards might be doing well now to. He's the senior partner now. And do we know if Chuck even cashed that 3 million check? There doesnt really seem to be any ties between HMM and the rest of the show though.

 

Micheal McKean. He'll definitely be missed. The relationship between Jimmy and Chuck was one of the best I've ever seen on TV. We never got to find out what happened to him. I feel we might get a flashback or two with Chuck in it in the next season. 

 

It is interesting though. In an episode where Jimmy is trying as best he can to patch up some of the damage. The last thing his brother tells him is to not bother.

 

"In the end, you're gonna hurt everyone around you. You can't help it. So stop apologizing and accept it. Embrace it. Frankly, I'd have more respect for you if you did."

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Patrick Fabian, I used to hate him in this. His character. But I was wrong, because he's a fucking legend! 

 

The black and white flash-forwards which bookend the series, and the unknown outcome of Kim... I'm holding out for a long lost reconciliation between the two of them, and an happy ending for Jimmy McGill! 

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I think flashbacks next season with Chuck in them are a definite, if there is another season.

 

Yea it does seem that everyone apart from Chuck does get a positive, or at least optimistic end to the season.  I do wonder if the next season begins a few years later instead of keeping us in 2003 for longer

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Quintus said:

Patrick Fabian, I used to hate him in this. His character. But I was wrong, because he's a fucking legend! 

 

The black and white flash-forwards which bookend the series, and the unknown outcome of Kim... I'm holding out for a long lost reconciliation between the two of them, and an happy ending for Jimmy McGill! 

 

You mean like the Cinabbon Gene scenes will include an older Kim in them and they'll have a happy and persecution free ending?

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Howards Hamlin is a brilliant character. And yes brilliant casting to. You dislike him straight away...but he's probably the most decent character on the show though. Save for Nacho's father.

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Bob Odenkirk is hoping for 5 seasons. He also seemed to suggest in the same interview I saw that Chuck isn't dead, but I'd be very surprised (and disappointed) if that was the case. 

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1 minute ago, Jay said:

You mean like the Cinabbon Gene scenes will include an older Kim in them and they'll have a happy and persecution free ending?

 

This means Lee still likes Jimmy, despite the things he did, and it going to do. Heartwarming.

 

Seriously. Kim should get the fuck out. Chuck wasnt wrong about Jimmy. Not one bit!

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3 minutes ago, Jay said:

if there is another season.

 

I have no season to doubt the show wont get another season. Ratings are solid right? And I'm sure now that the season is done Netflix will see people binging it.

 

So where are we when it comes to hooking up with BB?

This season has made major headway in introducing the cartel, Gus, Lydia etc etc. But chronologically it is still a few years off. BB starts in late 2007 and Gus, etc don't come into it until season 2.

So I don't actually think they will really intersect with Breaking Bad in terms of year. Though BCS might end with all the elements fully installed. Mike working for Gus. The laundy factory as a front for the cooking of meth. We might see Gill. And of course Jimmy as Saul in his shitty little office.

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18 minutes ago, Jay said:

You mean like the Cinabbon Gene scenes will include an older Kim in them and they'll have a happy and persecution free ending?

 

It'll be like Ripley and Hicks at the end of Aliens. Tired and bruised from life, they'll bed down in Cryosleep together - which will secure another series albeit one set in the far distant future. James Horner will provide the music to the final scene using work originally written for Die Hard. 

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4 minutes ago, Quintus said:

It was Chuck who always said that deep down Jimmy really has a good heart! 

 

He does, but he has impulses he cannot control. Much like Chuck himself. Or Walter.

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23 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I have no season to doubt the show wont get another season. Ratings are solid right?

 

The ratings for season 3 were lower than than either of the prior seasons' ratings

 

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/better-call-saul/265828/will-better-call-saul-season-4-happen

 

 

Quote

And I'm sure now that the season is done Netflix will see people binging it.

 

It's only a Netflix show outside the US;  In its homeland its on a cable channel called AMC and you have to pay for a cable subscription to legally watch the show.  The seasons don't show up on Netflix here until a week or so before the next season is about to start on AMC.

 

 

Quote

So where are we when it comes to hooking up with BB?

This season has made major headway in introducing the cartel, Gus, Lydia etc etc. But chronologically it is still a few years off. BB starts in late 2007 and Gus, etc don't come into it until season 2.

 

Breaking Bad begins on Walter's 50th birthday (September 7th, 2008) and ends on his 52nd birthday (September 7th 2010).  Better Call Saul began in June 2002 and as of the recent episodes is up to March 2003 (the date on the check Kim writes to Hamlin was March 4th 2003)

 

 

Quote

So I don't actually think they will really intersect with Breaking Bad in terms of year. Though BCS might end with all the elements fully installed. Mike working for Gus. The laundy factory as a front for the cooking of meth. We might see Gill. And of course Jimmy as Saul in his shitty little office.

 

The "main timeline" of the show will end before Walter White's 50th birthday, I reckon.  Not way to really know at this point.


The Cinnabon Gene scenes don't seem to be taking place TOO long after Walter White is dead right now, but ultimately could show us Jimmy's life 5, 10, 15 years beyond all that - who knows.

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I do wonder what will happen to HHM in the future...even if Chuck didn't cash that specific 3 million dollar check, surely there is language in the Partners Agreement as to what happens in the event of a partner's death?  Either way there's quite a large estate up for grabs.  The big question is if Chuck left a will...you just know Jimmy will try to get his hands on at least some piece of the estate.

 

 

Here's a great write-up on from EW's Jeff Jensen about the season finale, and in particular Michael McKean's performance as Chuck.

 

http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/24/better-call-saul-season-3-review/

 

I love how he went back to "Chicanery" and Chuck's courthouse meltdown and pointed out how the final shot of the sizzling fire exit light is now seen as an eerie foreshadowing of Chuck's eventual demise.

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That exit sign shot was fantastic

 

 

I can't remember: Is it mentioned on the show if Hamlin's father is still alive or not?

 

 

What happens generally in a big law firm when one partner dies?

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1 hour ago, Matt S. said:

I love how he went back to "Chicanery" and Chuck's courthouse meltdown and pointed out how the final shot of the sizzling fire exit light is now seen as an eerie foreshadowing of Chuck's eventual demise.

 

Jimmy pointed as the lantern as a fire hazard in his court case. And the flashback prologue of ep 10 ended with a shot of a lantern.

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10 hours ago, Quintus said:

Bob Odenkirk is hoping for 5 seasons. He also seemed to suggest in the same interview I saw that Chuck isn't dead, but I'd be very surprised (and disappointed) if that was the case. 

 

In interviews, Michael McKean has more or less, confirmed that his character is dead and that he will be returning in the next season via flashbacks.

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Technically speaking, if your heart stops beating you are dead. From a legal point of view, that is. But that doesn't mean it has to stay this way. Jon Snow was dead too ;)

 

Besides, Chuck might have a long lost twin brother that no one knew about. ;)

 

Karol

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Occured to me today that Chuck kinda treated Jimmy and Howard the same way. And vice-versa. Both of them in their own way took a lot of effort to take care of Chuck, basically enabling him in his belief that the condition he had was physical rather than mental. 

In season 3 Jimmy pretty much breaks with Chuck after he feels betrayed by his older brother. Not only breaks with him but publicly humiliates him in court. Hamlin more or less does the same after he feels betrayed by Chuck by basically cutting him a check and given him a very VERY public exit.

 

Both Jimmy and Howard are justified in their actions to some extent. (though Howard far more than Jimmy). Both took it too far though and essentially destroyed Chuck, or allowed Chuck to destroy himself after they stopped enabling him.

 

Tragic shit!

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On 6/22/2017 at 10:59 AM, Jay said:

Nobody else noticed the different end credits music?

 

Nope. Watching the show in its original run or on Xfinity on demand squeezes the end credits down to the bottom of the screen as it shows the preview from something else. I have yet to hear this show's end credits music. 

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If they were writing Season 4 to be the final season, it would have been announced that way.  They're writing this to end in a way that they expect it to be renewed again.

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I'm not saying Season 4 is definitively NOT the final season, simply that they are WRITING it as if it isn't.  Obviously any show in the world can get canceled at any time

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