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THE BFG OST ALBUM Discussion


Jay

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Harry Potter has a nice theme (or even collection of themes) but it also feels very much like a rehash of Home Alone/Hook/The Phantom Menace. There is nothing new about it. It is no match for A.I. which is among Williams' most unique scores.

 

Karol

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Exactly. A.I. is one of Williams' most unique, "unlikely" scores. Tracks like "Journey through the Ice (Part 1)" or "What is Your Wish" contain music that you wouldn't expect from typical Williams.

 

I mean, overall, A.I. has a peculiar dream-like quality that makes it stand out from the rest. I noticed it when I first saw the film a little under a year ago and it immediately struck me as something different and special. It quickly became among my favourite Williams scores.

 

Given that BFG obviously has a theme related to dreams, I can foresee Williams touching upon that dreamy, other-worldly sound he used in A.I. But there will be more Hookish, kiddish elements in there as well, as we've already heard. Which I don't particular mind, as long as it isn't overdone. In any case...I'm looking forward to it!

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34 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Harry Potter has a nice theme (or even collection of themes) but it also feels very much like a rehash of Home Alone/Hook/The Phantom Menace. There is nothing new about it. It is no match for A.I. which is among Williams' most unique scores.

 

Karol

 

Well said, Brother Karol.  You are strong in the True Faith.

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Not sure if people realized, but it's not that the AI bit I posted above generally sounded like the same type of stuff in the BFG premiere video; what I meant is it specifically sounded very similar to one of the BFG main themes, just for a few seconds.

 

Specifically, 11:19 of the AI YouTube clip corresponds to 0:44 of loert's piano playing of the BFG score found here:

 

 

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On May 19, 2016 at 6:52 PM, Bill said:

 

Sounds like BFG there, am I right?

OMG, lol, they don't sound anything alike. That "For Always" is very broadwayesque and the BFG theme from what I hear with the chord progression is very Tchaikovsky from his Sleeping Beauty era.

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Another review that does not intend to praise Williams's score (though it neither dismisses it), but ends up giving it the sort of description that makes me look forward to the score:

 

"It’s directly down to him [Rylance] that the ending brims with an emotion you barely suspected was there – rare for a filmmaker as sentimental as Spielberg, who has composer John Williams otherwise working overtime to wring out feelings that trickle rather than flood forth."

 

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/05/18/the-bfg-review

 

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5 hours ago, crocodile said:

Harry Potter has a nice theme (or even collection of themes) but it also feels very much like a rehash of Home Alone/Hook/The Phantom Menace. There is nothing new about it. It is no match for A.I. which is among Williams' most unique scores.

 

Karol

Out of Williams Harry Potters I would go with 3 any day. I think it's a fantastic score. From his parents haunting "bridge to the past" theme, to aunt Marge's waltz, to the bus jazz cue, to whipping willow, to Buckbeak's flight and the tick tock going back in time cue, to the voices with those burka covered flying dementors etc etc etc, so much in that score to love.

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26 minutes ago, ocelot said:

Out of Williams Harry Potters I would go with 3 any day. I think it's a fantastic score. From his parents haunting "bridge to the past" theme, to aunt Marge's waltz, to the bus jazz cue, to whipping willow, to Buckbeak's flight and the tick tock going back in time cue, to the voices with those burka covered flying dementors etc etc etc, so much in that score to love.

 

I remember going into that film expecting a score from Williams that would be very much steeped in the musical lexicon of the first two films, and I struggle to think of instances where my musical expectations for a film were more blown away. Never would have guessed the score would have been as different as it was. I think the PoA score ranks as one of Williams finer, and definitely more unique, musical achievements. Certainly a masterpiece in my book.  

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The thing that pissed me off when other composers took over the Potter franchise was how they threw all those themes for different characters and settings out. I was like are you that dumb? Had I been blessed to take over that franchise I would have used all the themes when appropriate. Chamber of Secrets for example. I would have taken Bridge to the Past about his parents and made it about Sirius Black since he became his surrogate father and losing him affected him the same way. What dumb composer goes into a franchise that Williams has beautifully played down an incredible foundation and then think they can match any thematic material.... Sorry, rant over.... Horrid scores after his. Didn't like one of them even. I did prefer the darker tones of the films and that's what saved them for me, but scores 4 to 8? Serviceable at best and some areas were downright dreadful. Such a tragedy and totally showed you the difference between people's abilities. Oops, OK, sorry, rant over now.... I mean I could go on, but that would show how much of a bitch I can be..... I mean quidditch, year 3... SLOBBER!!!!!! That fugal section is brilliant!

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Not every composer wants to be a showman (Hooper obviously didn't) and your rant ignores the obvious requirement of the production team - a wild guess might be that a Patrick Doyle or even Desplat aren't 500 pound gorillas like Williams, with whom studios probably wouldn't fuck around for a variety of reasons.

 

Bottom line: the movies changed very much in tone and what you suggest might only have worked in a negligible handful of scenes and the new tasks at hand made it easier to make up a new tune like 'Obliviate' instead of noodling around with long-lined Williams themes just to make a handful of fans happy. 

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I understand people's distaste for the last four Potter scores, but I was thankful we also had new themes to hear other than the composers working overtime to quote Williams, which as much as I like hearing other composers' ideas or arrangements of Williams' themes, I would find it distracting or that the producers didn't trust the new composer to establish new musical identities.

 

That said, it felt odd in Deathly Hallows for Hedwig's Theme to play for those brief scenes towards the end of the film, it was like: "Hey, it's Harry Potter, don't you remember?"

 

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Are there any franchises where a new composer has taken over and actively continued the themes? I don't think it happens very often.

 

I guess Don Davis comes the closest I can think of, with JP3 using all of JW's primary themes in a couple of places.

 

The problem with Potter is that the subsequent composers have all had such different approaches to scoring, and no doubt different requests from directors too. We were spoilt (IMO) with an amazing first score, and it set a benchmark which thematically was never going to be matched by the scores later in the franchise. It has a childlike sense of magic and innocence (and the antagonist in the plot isn't particularly potent) which just isn't there in subsequent films. For example, I don't think Harry's Wonderous World had a place beyond the first few films. There's nothing 'wonderous' about Hogwarts by the end.

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Beltrami used Kamen's Die Hard themes in his sequel scores.

 

Superman 2-4 & Smallville & Supergirl used Superman 1's themes.

 

Tyler & Elfman used Silvestri's Avengers, Black Widow, and Hellicarrier themes

 

All Terminator sequels use Fiedels theme

 

All (?) Star Trek films used the Alexander Courage theme

 

Debney made extensive use of Silvestri's Predator themes in his sequel score

 

Jaws 3 & 4 use Williams' shark theme.

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33 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Are there any franchises where a new composer has taken over and actively continued the themes? I don't think it happens very often.

Jaws and the horrific Home Alones 3 and 4.

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Distracting, obnoxious, saccharine, intrusive, manipulative and heavy-handed are all dirty words used to describe Williams by critics, but they're music to the ears of JWFans.

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Changing names has always been allowed here.

 

Hornist you yourself changed many times.

 

And there is a very convenient thread that lists all the changes.

 

You guys are complaining just to complain.

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

Changing names has always been allowed here.

 

Hornist you yourself changed many times.

 

And there is a very convenient thread that lists all the changes.

 

You guys are complaining just to complain.

Ok, thanks. I forgot that thread of changes. Now I know better.

 

If you are months away from this site and there are a boost of changes, it is confusing.

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3 hours ago, crumbs said:

Distracting, obnoxious, saccharine, intrusive, manipulative and heavy-handed are all dirty words used to describe Williams by critics, but they're music to the ears of JWFans.

 

Most not all. 

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8 hours ago, Jay said:

And there is a very convenient thread that lists all the changes.

 

You guys are complaining just to complain.

 

I have a really bad memory for names. I'd have to print out the name change thread and check it every time I see a previously unknown name. I've honestly lost track of who half the regulars are.

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20 hours ago, publicist said:

 

I think the fan in you just totally doesn't get how blockbuster films today are made in regards to scoring. The least of the problem these guys faced was the incorporation of some themes for the prior movies. It was writing 120 minutes of something that didn't clash with the millions of sound effects and didn't make Yates nervous who probably would have needed a John Williams score on his movies like he needed a second asshole. The scores you hear now in the movies proper are exactly what Yates ordered and Desplat probably smuggled some more depth into them than actually required of him.

Fan in me? I'm a composer. I'm definitely not talking from a fan prospective at all.

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22 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Are there any franchises where a new composer has taken over and actively continued the themes? I don't think it happens very often.

 

I guess Don Davis comes the closest I can think of, with JP3 using all of JW's primary themes in a couple of places.

 

The problem with Potter is that the subsequent composers have all had such different approaches to scoring, and no doubt different requests from directors too. We were spoilt (IMO) with an amazing first score, and it set a benchmark which thematically was never going to be matched by the scores later in the franchise. It has a childlike sense of magic and innocence (and the antagonist in the plot isn't particularly potent) which just isn't there in subsequent films. For example, I don't think Harry's Wonderous World had a place beyond the first few films. There's nothing 'wonderous' about Hogwarts by the end.

 

I totally agree with what you are saying, and Lord, I'm not saying that all the themes should be brought back and absolutely, the tone gets darker and nothing is magical. But lets say I was fortunate enough to get the reins to score the latter movies (I am a composer and hope to be scoring movies of this style at some point), I would have brought back the chamber of secrets theme in a darker way when we go there in the latter movies. When Sirius dies, I would use that haunting theme that was Harry's love for his parents, because it wasn't a theme strictly for them but one of his feelings towards a parental figure and the loss of them. It would be dumb to bring in many themes, but there are key ones to use effectively here and there and you would have gotten a more cohesive overall experience. Plus, as a composer I cannot stand lazy chase music. I think you can go as light and magical and quirky, to as dark and low and aggressive as all hell but still give a totally interesting chase cue for the scene, for moviegoers and for listeners of scores. 

 

Look guys, in the end music is subjective, this is just my take on it and it's great hearing everyone else's difference of opinions too. If we all liked the same thing, boy would this world be boring. And hey, if you only knew what I listen to in the gym, I won't mention names but one of the bitches keeps telling me to "Work Bitch". How many points did I lose now?

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