Thomas Newman's SPECTRE

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

Soundtrack is up on YouTube, just as an FYI.

Link 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jWp3HOZJoU

Link 2: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH3TFIVCOgxKHU_5quoz4T_haQHI2ghCW

[MedigoScan 324]

Track 19 and the end of Track 8 are the most clear returns from the Skyfall score

I dont immediately recognize anything else

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

bring back john barry THE LEGEND

Okay!

[crocodile 7,983]

I wrote a review of the soundtrack album, if you fancy reading it.

Karol

[Jilal 569]

I've been listening to a couple of tracks here and there, and so far, I'm not as impressed as I somewhat hoped to be - I can forgive Tom the SKYFALL quotes, though, as I'm quite fond of the bits I've heard quoted so far (e.g. one of the sustained cymbal-ridden bits from the Istanbul chase sequence and the lift from the Moors sequence).

I suspect Mendes was equally as fond of those bits and temp-tracked the film with at least some of those. Either that, or Newman might have wanted to devote as much of his time as possible to BRIDGE OF SPIES.

-------------------------------

And, yes! Terrific indeed.

Nice samples (listened on my phone), but the number of callbacks to less interesting passages from Skyfall is a little disappointing. I was also hoping for more classic Newman brass chorales as in M's theme or Tennyson, or nice crunchy minor/major dissonances as in this terrific cue.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I wrote a review of the soundtrack album, if you fancy reading it.

Karol

Great review, but minor typos.

"Overall, all those examples form an interest[ing] contrast to a more unabashed romantic material from older films."

For the following sentence:

"Truth be told, it is the only version you’ll ever need, given how poorly received was an actual radio single."

I suggest "given how poorly received was the radio single was" as it flows better.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

I wrote a review of the soundtrack album, if you fancy reading it.

Karol

I don't fancy reading it, and I resent your asking!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

The second half of The Pale King is magnificently frightening, almost Pendereckian.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Click here to listen to the second.

Or try this.

As aggravating as Skyfall, only more confident in blaring its nondescriptive blandness.

Who's the Classic FM moron who, after 50 years of Bond, has only heard the ornithologist story recently?

[crocodile 7,983]

I wrote a review of the soundtrack album, if you fancy reading it.

Karol

Great review, but minor typos.

"Overall, all those examples form an interest[ing] contrast to a more unabashed romantic material from older films."

For the following sentence:

"Truth be told, it is the only version youll ever need, given how poorly received was an actual radio single."

I suggest "given how poorly received was the radio single was" as it flows better.

Thanks for suggestions. For things escape me sometimes. It's a struggle!

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

For the following sentence:

"Truth be told, it is the only version you’ll ever need, given how poorly received was an actual radio single."

I suggest "given how poorly received was the radio single was" as it flows better.

Correcting a typo with another typo! Bravo!

[publicist 4,643]

The action (and there's a lot of it) sounds like JNH (SALT) on steroids.

Salt? Really? I hear barely any of that in Snow Plane.

I'd say there are more than passing similarities. JNH probably got the Powell temp treatment and JNH-ed it and Newman's music somehow resembles the JNH example.

I think like in SKYFALL i enjoy the quieter moments more though this has more travelogue style material like 'L'Americain' and seems a bit more superficial. It's also a score you actually need some time to get into - a good thing - so all the knee-jerk Newman-sucks outcries are expected but pitiful as always.

[crocodile 7,983]

I like this score because it feels more consistent than Skyfall in what is trying to achieve and, yeah, because it isn't easy (as pub says). There is something for me to do as a listener amd that doesn't happen as often these days. Funnily enough, with all this aural departure and earnest tone, Newman is still extremely faithful to the original James Bond theme. I can't wait to hear how it works in the film.

Karol

[publicist 4,643]

I think it's more bubbly though, there are less introspective moments. It seems lighter on character development than the last one.

[crocodile 7,983]

Apparently the film is like that. We'll see next week, I guess.

Karol

[Perdogg 1]

Does any one have the proper sequence of the OST yet?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

The action (and there's a lot of it) sounds like JNH (SALT) on steroids.

Salt? Really? I hear barely any of that in Snow Plane.

I'd say there are more than passing similarities. JNH probably got the Powell temp treatment and JNH-ed it and Newman's music somehow resembles the JNH example.

I know that cue pretty well (I think I have the typeset score somewhere) but while there's vague similarities in the modality, the Newman cue has many things that the JNH cue lacks. The beautifully chromatic Newman brass triads (as I wrote elsewhere, you could write a good Neo-Riemannian analysis on them, as the chromaticism is governed not by functional tonality or parallel motion but voice-leading principles), the much more economic application of music material and a greater sense of groove. You might hear Salt on steroids at 02:56, but I hear The Good German on a dozen double expressos.

Also, Salt's wet/muddy recording (Shawn Murphy and Joel Iwataki) clashes with my sensibilities.

[TownerFan 4,983]

"Snow Plane" is indeed a great example of modern action scoring. I'm liking it a lot. He blends contemporary pulse-driven aesthetics with some ingenious harmonic language, as Sharky pointed out.

I'd be interested to see how Newman plans the recording of this kind of pieces. Do you guys think he does a lot of striping (i.e., recording groups in separate sessions)? Or does he record with the full ensemble just minus the electronic/synth pre-laids?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I think it's prelays (soloists and electronic sequences) followed by orchestra, TownerFan.

It looks like he records the orchestra in one pass.

[publicist 4,643]

I know that cue pretty well (I think I have the typeset score somewhere) but while there's vague similarities in the modality, the Newman cue has many things that the JNH cue lacks. The beautifully chromatic Newman brass triads (as I wrote elsewhere, you could write a good Neo-Riemannian analysis on them, as the chromaticism is governed not by functional tonality or parallel motion but voice-leading principles), the much more economic application of music material and a greater sense of groove. You might hear Salt on steroids at 02:56, but I hear The Good German on a dozen double expressos.

I hear music i don't particularly like to revisit often. The whole approach seems a bit coarse. And there's too much useless filler. The albums didn't do the two Newman Bonds any favours. Musically speaking...

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I know that cue pretty well (I think I have the typeset score somewhere) but while there's vague similarities in the modality, the Newman cue has many things that the JNH cue lacks. The beautifully chromatic Newman brass triads (as I wrote elsewhere, you could write a good Neo-Riemannian analysis on them, as the chromaticism is governed not by functional tonality or parallel motion but voice-leading principles), the much more economic application of music material and a greater sense of groove. You might hear Salt on steroids at 02:56, but I hear The Good German on a dozen double expressos.

I hear music i don't particularly like to revisit often. The whole approach seems a bit coarse.

Pearls before swine!

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Haven't got to listen to this yet but I like what I'm seeing here to describe it.

[publicist 4,643]

I know that cue pretty well (I think I have the typeset score somewhere) but while there's vague similarities in the modality, the Newman cue has many things that the JNH cue lacks. The beautifully chromatic Newman brass triads (as I wrote elsewhere, you could write a good Neo-Riemannian analysis on them, as the chromaticism is governed not by functional tonality or parallel motion but voice-leading principles), the much more economic application of music material and a greater sense of groove. You might hear Salt on steroids at 02:56, but I hear The Good German on a dozen double expressos.

I hear music i don't particularly like to revisit often. The whole approach seems a bit coarse.

Pearls before swine!

I'd say more a peculiar love for what is essentially expensively produced blockbuster scoring á la Hollywood. This is not the fine gourmet meal you make it out to be.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I know that cue pretty well (I think I have the typeset score somewhere) but while there's vague similarities in the modality, the Newman cue has many things that the JNH cue lacks. The beautifully chromatic Newman brass triads (as I wrote elsewhere, you could write a good Neo-Riemannian analysis on them, as the chromaticism is governed not by functional tonality or parallel motion but voice-leading principles), the much more economic application of music material and a greater sense of groove. You might hear Salt on steroids at 02:56, but I hear The Good German on a dozen double expressos.

I hear music i don't particularly like to revisit often. The whole approach seems a bit coarse.

Pearls before swine!

I'd say more a peculiar love for what is essentially expensively produced blockbuster scoring á la Hollywood. This is not the fine gourmet meal you make it out to be.

Deem it as you may, I hear something considerably more old fashioned and artful.

[publicist 4,643]

Which old fashion would THAT be?

[crocodile 7,983]

"Snow Plane" is indeed a great example of modern action scoring. I'm liking it a lot. He blends contemporary pulse-driven aesthetics with some ingenious harmonic language, as Sharky pointed out.

I'd be interested to see how Newman plans the recording of this kind of pieces. Do you guys think he does a lot of striping (i.e., recording groups in separate sessions)? Or does he record with the full ensemble just minus the electronic/synth pre-laids?

What do you think of the rest, Maurizio? Yay, nay or meh?

Haven't got to listen to this yet but I like what I'm seeing here to describe it.

I reckon it's a good score. Not sure how good yet, though. Will need to see the film for that. But it sure ain't David Arnold.

Karol

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

That's a good thing according to my ears....

[crocodile 7,983]

David Arnold had 11 years to play around with this world. In two different incarnation, no less. His scores might satisfy the nostalgic fans but I never felt like has gone anywhere but skin deep into the material. The older I get the less good his action music sounds. All the bells and whistles are there and that is enough for conservative fans to cream their pants. But it ultimately has no structure, just overwritten mess in which various section seem to be layered pointlessly, one on top of another, and they end up overwhelming each other so you can't hear any of them properly. It might sound complex at first but I'm not convinced. Seems like he's trying too much by drawing attention to the supposed "density" of his compositions (or is it Nicholas Dodd?). It's a far cry from the compositional excellence of much superior composers. I wish he started throwing less stuff in there and instead focused on some kind of dramatic goal. And that is probably a reason why I have a problem with getting through most of his albums. Too much mindlessness. Having said that, his last score showed promise and, ultimately, remains his best. There is a motivic consequence to QOS that, coupled with more careful spotting, seems to support its film with some form of undercurrent, especially in the quieter parts. I liked how more restrained synth material was corresponding to Bonds' emotional state. Seems like something that was largely missing from the film itself so I applaud Arnold for this a rare sensitivity on his part. His other works, while entertaining, are just all superficial with no real dramatic purpose or drive.

I'm not saying that Thomas Newman outdid himself with his two scores. Or that he rediscovered the series. But at least there is an attempt to bring some new character into the mix (ignoring some action tropes). It's a Bond we haven't "heard" before and, as such, a keeper. Plus, I like his, almost cursory, precision to action genre. It's not that obvious of an approach, if you think about it. And some of his adaptations of Bond material are just plain cool, as unorthodox as they might seem. Suddenly, it feels the series is not as artistically bankrupt and dire as I thought.

Karol

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Arnold never gave me the Bond "feeling" in his subtle or romantic moments. Newman has and I bet will again once I listen. That truly lush sweeping sound, or "cool" moments of atmosphere....

[crocodile 7,983]

When will you listen to the full album, Grey?

Karol

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Tonight I suppose.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

This is even better than I expected it to be, and easily becomes my favorite of 2015 so far. There are so many perfect moments, the action is actually compelling and interesting where I thought it would be the weak point, and there's soooo much delicious atmosphere and sensuality. I also really like the instrumental version of the song. I haven't heard the official version, so I'm pleasantly free of any bad associations. It's the first Bond song to feel really classically Bondian (as opposed to pastiche, or just something totally unrelated (You Know My Name came quite close though)) in a while, I think? A certain female voice would sound great over it, but I can't quite place who I have a vague idea of for it in my imagination.

And how about that legendary trumpet moment in Westminster Bridge? Makes my lips bleed just hearing it.

[KK 3,307]

Haven't heard this yet. But what has been described promises good things.

If I have time, I think I'll play both Newman Bond scores tonight.

[Richard Penna 3,669]

Not sure I share the love for Snow Plane. Apart from the brass clusters, not a lot is going on in this track.

Backfire on the other hand, I love. Overall I'm undecided whether I like it overall - my first attempt at a listen was at work, where I had some significant distractions. Apart from Skyfall, I haven't really been perked by his output since Wall-E.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

How fucking sexy is that bass groove at 1:08 in Silver Wraith? There's just something about that menacing minor sixth (C -> Ab), and how the Ebm chord above gets temporally reinterpreted by the ear as an Ab9. I love the opening ambience too, a kind of clustral heat shimmer--from C melodic minor, to C Dorian, and then C Aeolian, and a Hungarian minor F#-G-Ab cluster as a quasi-cadence.

It's SPECTRE's equivalent of Shanghai Drive in that it's a travelling theme that's reprised in the end credits (Adrenaline / SPECTRE). Not lyrical but definitely thematic.

[Incanus 5,713]

How fucking sexy is that bass groove at 1:08 in Silver Wraith? There's just something about that menacing minor sixth (C -> Ab), and how the Ebm chord above gets temporally reinterpreted by the ear as an Ab9. I love the opening ambience too, a kind of clustral heat shimmer--from C melodic minor, to C Dorian, and then C Aeolian, and a Hungarian minor F#-G-Ab cluster as a quasi-cadence.

Alas I don't speak music so I have no idea what you are talking about.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

+1

But it makes the music sound really cool!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Yeah, I know it comes out like pseudo-intellectual waffle. I'm just trying to express my rambling thoughts while listening to it.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Pseudo-intellectual waffle...

[mrbellamy 6,272]

How fucking sexy is that bass groove at 1:08 in Silver Wraith? There's just something about that menacing minor sixth (C -> Ab), and how the Ebm chord above gets temporally reinterpreted by the ear as an Ab9. I love the opening ambience too, a kind of clustral heat shimmer--from C melodic minor, to C Dorian, and then C Aeolian, and a Hungarian minor F#-G-Ab cluster as a quasi-cadence.

It's SPECTRE's equivalent of Shanghai Drive in that it's a travelling theme that's reprised in the end credits (Adrenaline / SPECTRE). Not lyrical but definitely thematic.

Not to sound dumb but just out of curiosity, have you been going through the cues working this stuff out or at this point are these things you're instantly recognizing?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

How fucking sexy is that bass groove at 1:08 in Silver Wraith? There's just something about that menacing minor sixth (C -> Ab), and how the Ebm chord above gets temporally reinterpreted by the ear as an Ab9. I love the opening ambience too, a kind of clustral heat shimmer--from C melodic minor, to C Dorian, and then C Aeolian, and a Hungarian minor F#-G-Ab cluster as a quasi-cadence.

It's SPECTRE's equivalent of Shanghai Drive in that it's a travelling theme that's reprised in the end credits (Adrenaline / SPECTRE). Not lyrical but definitely thematic.

Not to sound dumb but just out of curiosity, have you been going through the cues working this stuff out or at this point are these things you're instantly recognizing?

I've been jamming along with it on the piano, which I do for all scores I like.

[Jilal 569]

I stopped doing that some time ago, when I felt some of the keys were starting to suffer from my enthusiasm.

[crocodile 7,983]

Not sure I share the love for Snow Plane. Apart from the brass clusters, not a lot is going on in this track.

Backfire on the other hand, I love. Overall I'm undecided whether I like it overall - my first attempt at a listen was at work, where I had some significant distractions. Apart from Skyfall, I haven't really been perked by his output since Wall-E.

In all honesty, Rich, this isn't the kind of score you can just listen like this. You need to be in the mood for it. That's how I see it.

Karol

[KK 3,307]

I stopped doing that some time ago, when I felt some of the keys were starting to suffer from my enthusiasm.

I used to eat hours away with that...now there's just never time.

[mrbellamy 6,272]

How fucking sexy is that bass groove at 1:08 in Silver Wraith? There's just something about that menacing minor sixth (C -> Ab), and how the Ebm chord above gets temporally reinterpreted by the ear as an Ab9. I love the opening ambience too, a kind of clustral heat shimmer--from C melodic minor, to C Dorian, and then C Aeolian, and a Hungarian minor F#-G-Ab cluster as a quasi-cadence.

It's SPECTRE's equivalent of Shanghai Drive in that it's a travelling theme that's reprised in the end credits (Adrenaline / SPECTRE). Not lyrical but definitely thematic.

Not to sound dumb but just out of curiosity, have you been going through the cues working this stuff out or at this point are these things you're instantly recognizing?

I've been jamming along with it on the piano, which I do for all scores I like.

Gotcha. Sometimes I forget this is a message board where we have the luxury of formulating thoughts and with all your great enthusiasm I can't help reading your analyses as if you're liveblogging it

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I stopped doing that some time ago, when I felt some of the keys were starting to suffer from my enthusiasm.

I used to eat hours away with that...now there's just never time.

Yeah, I'm limited in time as well. Reserve it really for new scores that I like (which is to say very few) or older scores I've just discovered. If I went through my entire iTunes library of film music I'd never get anything done!

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

I love the opening ambience too, a kind of clustral heat shimmer--from C melodic minor, to C Dorian, and then C Aeolian, and a Hungarian minor F#-G-Ab cluster as a quasi-cadence.

That is rather effing brilliant isn't it.

I'm really delighted and surprised by how much I like this one.

[KK 3,307]

Would you guys say it's better than Skyfall?

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

I think it is, though I probably haven't heard Skyfall enough to know anything more than that I enjoy it.