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Informal Star Wars score study videos


alainmayrand

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That's pretty cool.

But because I'm a layman in musical theory, could you include some soundbites next time? Maybe a mock-up even, because you explain the different layers quite well, but I never get to hear them. :)

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Thanks guys!

I won't put any audio in the actual video because it will likely get flagged for copyright and then the whole audio track will get silent, including the voice, but I can put a link to a video with timestamp in the description perhaps?

Next one coming out tomorrow morning, just finished it.

Thanks again!

Alain

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Perfect! I've been looking for something just like this for a while, very insightful and goes into the technical detail. Keep up the good work!

Couple of questions:

- Are the 'horns' french horns?

- Why aren't these horns in f (or trumpets in b flat) taught to play the note c when a c is written on the page? It doesn't make sense to me that they play a different note to what is written.

Well, that depends. Is the Hal Leonard edition of the score written in concert pitch?

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Great bite-sized videos that explain things in an easy-to-follow way. :up:

Interesting about the orchestration of the theme in your first video, which is of course of the end credits. As you say, it has some oomph with the trumpets (which are by no means in their highest register) and the mid-range horns. That's surely a big reason this sounds like a more fun version of the theme than the main title, where the trumpets are up nearly an octave higher and are allowed to blast out the theme by themselves up into the stratosphere, at the top of their range.

The orchestration of Yoda's theme is particularly nicely spaced musically, the violins and violas staying clear of anything below middle C so the cello can enter with the melody unobstructed, a bit like the opening of Princess Leia's theme, with those wavering strings that stay clear of the horn's mid-range entrance with the tune.

Nice videos. Keep 'em coming!

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Perfect! I've been looking for something just like this for a while, very insightful and goes into the technical detail. Keep up the good work!

Couple of questions:

- Are the 'horns' french horns?

- Why aren't these horns in f (or trumpets in b flat) taught to play the note c when a c is written on the page? It doesn't make sense to me that they play a different note to what is written.

Yes, horns are French Horns. A valid question because, after all, you speak to a trombone player he calls his trombone a "horn" and a trumpet player does the same. :)

The score is a transposed score, so the horn is in F and the trumpet in Bb.

As for the reason why they do so, which I think is your question, it is because these instruments have various transpositions that they have to play.

There are trumpets in C, Bb, Eb, F, A etc... so the performer always reads the same notation and "thinks" the same fingering, but will end up with different pitches. So one player can now play a variety of different trumpets without having to learn different fingerings and/or transpositions for each.

-A

Great bite-sized videos that explain things in an easy-to-follow way. :up:

Interesting about the orchestration of the theme in your first video, which is of course of the end credits. As you say, it has some oomph with the trumpets (which are by no means in their highest register) and the mid-range horns. That's surely a big reason this sounds like a more fun version of the theme than the main title, where the trumpets are up nearly an octave higher and are allowed to blast out the theme by themselves up into the stratosphere, at the top of their range.

The orchestration of Yoda's theme is particularly nicely spaced musically, the violins and violas staying clear of anything below middle C so the cello can enter with the melody unobstructed, a bit like the opening of Princess Leia's theme, with those wavering strings that stay clear of the horn's mid-range entrance with the tune.

Nice videos. Keep 'em coming!

Thank you!

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Oh I see, which makes me wonder why there are all those differently tuned varieties of trumpet. Do they have distinctly different ranges, and does Williams choose the tunings of the horns/trumpet for a particular reason?

Thanks for the response!

The reason for all those transpositions has to do with the history of the trumpet and French Horn. Before the inclusion of valves, natural horns could only play in one key and required to either have extra pieces of tubing added or complete other instruments in order to play in various keys.

John Williams here is using the standard orchestral brass. Trumpet in C is more common than Bb however, but otherwise, it's not a specific choice for this music.

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As someone who has never received formal training in orchestration, I was more interested in things like the violin bowing markings and technique. If you can continue to include those nuggets that would be great.

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Love the videos Alain! Keep them coming!

The "Score Club" program/blog you started also looks really great!

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This is all very interesting! I'm a music student and have always been looking/hoping for something like these videos! Keep up the great work.

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At the beginning of "Yoda's Theme," what's the reason for spacing the violin parts so they interlock, as opposed to just having Violin I play the higher pitches and Violin II playing the lower ones? Is it just because it's easier to read this way?

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Alain, un Québécois exilé à Vancouver, c'est pas banal ;-)

Absolument! Je suis allé voir ton site FB sur John Williams.

Love the videos Alain! Keep them coming!

The "Score Club" program/blog you started also looks really great!

Thanks KK. Will do!

ScoreClub has taken off really well, so thanks for taking a look. Lots more to come!

At the beginning of "Yoda's Theme," what's the reason for spacing the violin parts so they interlock, as opposed to just having Violin I play the higher pitches and Violin II playing the lower ones? Is it just because it's easier to read this way?

Good questions! I think I'll address that and transposition in the next video!

But I can say that interlocking is more important when writing for winds. Interlocking violin I and II has in theory no big effect on timbre since they are all the same instrument.

However, having stood in front of an orchestra many times, I can tell you that violin II is softer than violin I. They have fewer players, yes, but usually by only 2, so that's not the reason. I think it could have something to do with the angle of the F holes, or even a matter of attitude. Take that for what it's worth, I certainly consider that reality when orchestrating for live vs. studio. Studio you have the tree angled differently than the conductor's ears, and you have spot mics.

But the actual answer is: it doesn't matter. :)

Alain

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Another great video! Surprised how accessible they are, and don't feel like dull theory lessons.

Oh wow. Thanks! That is indeed what I aim for when I teach! Direct, to the point, well-paced, clear and useful.

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Hi Alain

Great idea, and enjoying your series a lot so far!

When you mentioned "mrbellamy"'s question about string voicing in Yoda's Theme my initial thought, being a violinist and composer myself, was that the "inter-locking" would have been for "mechanical" reasons. Violins (violas, celli and double basses) are tuned in fifths, and whilst close intervals are possible, the mechanics of getting your hand into the correct position to "double stop", or play both notes simultaneously on two adjacent strings tuned a fifth apart can be tricky.

When I looked at your video again though, I noticed that in the HL score it is marked "divisi", meaning that half of the players take the upper note and the other half take the lower (usually split per desk). This would make sense in terms of trying to achieve the throbbing legato effect that you want to achieve in the opening. Getting that same tone whilst double stopping would be challenging. It did get me wondering though, and when I looked at the original score, it is NOT marked divisi, so the mechanics of double stopping may have been a consideration after all.

Sorry, I know that doesn't really shed any more light on that passage than your answer, but it struck me as a conscious decision rather than "he just felt like being clever"!!! I think the "balance" argument is blown too; the HL parts set provides eight 1st and 2nd violin parts equally, then six violas, cellos (assume 1 part per desk pair), and six double basses (assume 1 part each).

captur12.jpg

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Hi,

thanks for that.

A few thoughts:

In film scores the de facto is divisi. So if not written it could still be implied to be divisi. Doing a double stop louré would be tough as you state, and so is intonation on a double stopped 5th.

The number of parts sold is not necessarily what would be used in concert, but we can generally assume a couple more players for violin 1 than violin 2. Still, the strings are organized in a way to create balance, but my experience with live orchestras (I was four years as composer-in-residence with an orchestra) is that violin 1 stands out more than violin 2.

I don't think Williams was trying to be clever either. He is way beyond that stage. At some point, especially with string voicings with divisi, it could go a number of ways and you make a decision. This particular format is a good formula to go to.

Thanks!

Alain

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Great to see these still coming!

Thanks for the audio reference. I've been trying to listen out for Williams' woodwind writing. It is supposedly the most difficult section to write for. But when the full orchestra plays I can never hear the woodwind. I'm pleased to see the flute and clarinet parts for the passage within the Imperial March, but I still can't heard them - even knowing exactly what they're playing. Is this just me?

In this case the woodwinds are really meant as decoration that will not be a foreground element. In this passage they are quite hard to hear for sure. It's not just you. :)

As for hearing winds in a tutti, keep listening, you'll hear them.

Alain

Time and again: not items covered in my orchestration class. Bravo!

And, I chuckled when you said, "The other H-guy."

Thank you! I was aiming for exactly that. So thank you!

-Alain

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  • 2 weeks later...

Really happy you're continuing to crank these out as they are consistently very entertaining and well-explained so thank you for this continued service you have been providing to us free of charge. :)

Thanks for the comment. You are very welcome!

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Hi.

Now up to 11 in the Star Wars score studies. Here is #11:

There is also a playlist for the Star Wars videos.

And, at people's request, I have started to post some videos about my own scores, the first being from "The Legend of SilkBoy"

Thanks!

Alain

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Thank you so much for making these! I love analyzing scores...

Another great example of the piccolo overtone can be found in the final chords of the SW main theme. There, the highest note is a G7 (highest G on the piano) played by the piccolo, but the next note below is a G one octave below played by the flute/violins. This is unusual because often it is said that tutti chords should get denser near the top (as "suggested" by the law of harmonics), but in this case we have a full octave spacing between the top two notes. In this particular case, Williams packs lots of instruments into the mid (to high) register, but to create a fuller sound, he adds a piccolo way high up to support the harmonics generated by those mid-range instruments (e.g. trumpets sound more striking this way). A slightly unconventional voicing then, but it works.

As for three-octave string doubling, e.g. Chaikovsky almost always used this for lush, romantic melodies.

And I really liked your soundtrack excerpt! :)

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The idea of three-octave doubling applies to the woodwinds as well, of course. Renders them recognizable along with the brass/strings texture.

Naamloos_zpsqwvppqfv.jpg

Rimsky-Korsakov's guidelines:

Winds in three octaves

Flutes - oboes 8va basso - clarinets 15ma basso

Winds in four octaves

Flutes - oboes 8va basso - clarinets 15ma basso - bassoons 22ma basso

Mixed timbres may also be employed.

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