The Rise of Skywalker Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker (JJ Abrams 2019)

[crumbs 14,306]

2 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

Planet of the Apes just did that and nobody seems to care.

Probably because Matt Reeves is a superb director and Disney are fools for going after a mediocre twit like Trevorrow over him.

Mathew Vaughn would have been an excellent choice as well. But Johnson will do just fine if he agrees to come back.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

What's with firing and replacing all these directors? Their job is basically telling actors where to stand and telling the cinematographer where to point the camera.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

3 minutes ago, Sally Spectra said:

What's with firing and replacing all these directors? Their job is basically telling actors where to stand and telling the cinematographer where to point the camera.

The job Trevorrow was mostly fired from was writing it probably.  The Hollywood Reporter said the issues were with his script.

See here:

Quote

Sources tell The Hollywood Reporter that script issues have continued to be a sore spot throughout Episode IX’s development, with Trevorrow having repeated stabs at multiple drafts. 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/colin-trevorrow-as-director-star-wars-episode-ix-1035463

[mrbellamy 6,275]

Wouldn't be surprised if Carrie Fisher's death fucked the whole thing and they couldn't reconcile how to proceed.

[Brónach 1,302]

I think that's exactly the issue. They have to find a way to suddenly not feature at all a famous character they've been using until this point that seemingly doesn't die in The Last Jedi and whose arc (if there was one) didn't end there. That's hard and many writers would find themselves into a corner.

Probably the greatest issue here is not to have thought of each movie as entirely self contained first.

[Nick1Ø66 4,708]

42 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

Planet of the Apes just did that and nobody seems to care.

I know. So did Bourne. Which is a pity, b/c the first Bourne and Apes movie remain the best.

In any event, Bourne and Apes aren't Star Wars (if that wasn't already obvious).

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Yeah but Apes is a better franchise than Star Wars.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I've always thought Ultimatum was the best Bourne.

[Nick1Ø66 4,708]

The two posts above this one are embarrassing (for their authors).

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Why?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

You really think Ultimatum is so much worse than Identity that it's embarrassing to prefer it?  I've always thought the original Bourne trilogy were pretty equal in quality.  Are you just anti-Greengrass in general or something?  Because I think he's fantastic.

[Balahkay 627]

The script was being rewritten last month so I'm not surprised by this announcement and they probably already have a replacement.  I've always thought they would delay the film until December 2019, but I really don't think they'll need to delay it due to this announcement.  In any case, I imagine Williams will be writing and possibly start scoring the film in 2018.  Afterall, they started recording TLJ a year before the film's release and Williams was obviously working on it before then.

[Nick1Ø66 4,708]

 

21 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

You really think Ultimatum is so much worse than Identity that it's embarrassing to prefer it?  I've always thought the original Bourne trilogy were pretty equal in quality.  Are you just anti-Greengrass in general or something?  Because I think he's fantastic.

I hadn't really thought about it, but guess I am anti-Greengrass, in that I like to be able to actually follow whats going on in action sequence without reaching for the Dramamine.

I was just being hyperbolic about the embarrassing bit.  Yes, it's OK to prefer Ultimatum to Identity (I suppose), and (gasp) even Apes to Star Wars. Though I do think that the Bourne films aren't really very good after the first one, which I think is pretty special.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 minute ago, Nick1066 said:

I was just being hyperbolic about the embarrassing bit.  Yes, it's OK to prefer Ultimatum to Identity, and (gasp) even Apes to Star Wars. Though I do think that the Bourne films aren't really very good after the first one, which I think is pretty special.

See even your "gasp" insert suggests condescension!

[Nick1Ø66 4,708]

Just now, Sally Spectra said:

See even your "gasp" insert suggests condescension!

Damn...I meant to do more than just suggest it!

[Bilbo 3,709]

4 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Yes but you see, The Force Awakens wasn't mediocre so you're starting off on bad footing there.  I think you'll find that The Force Awakens was a good movie.  There we go, much better.

TFA was a bang average blockbuster.

 

There's nothing really bad about it but there's not really anything spectacular about it either.

 

Same with the score!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just now, Bilbo Skywalker said:

TFA was a bang average blockbuster.

 

There's nothing really bad about it but there's not really anything spectacular about it either.

 

Same with the score!

I'm tired.  Tired of playing the game.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It's alright, not bad, just about okay. I've barely rewatched it.

[Brónach 1,302]

Actually it is spectacular.

Until it suddenly gets rid of Poe. Huh?

And then it gets boring with a death star and it drops the "search for Luke" quest it had set up... to solve it instantaneously when the film running time is over.

It's got major structural problems. The new main characters don't all interact together like in ANH (!!!!!) and nobody gives a shit about the original quest in the film. When Kylo Ren asks about the map, he might as well be asking about something else entirely. Technical data for his death star. A porn magazine he lost. Who knows.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Something is incredibly off about the pacing/editing of the final 1/3 that I've never quite been able to put my finger on. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I don't like Ray, "Mister Solo!" Flynn or what they did with the characters from the previous films.

[Brónach 1,302]

There are stitches everywhere in that film. Like Maz Kanata could be cool in a granny pirate way like Castle in the Sky, but she just there for a while stopping the film dead in its tracks. Another stitch in that sequence is the characters seeing the planet destruction from the ground.

It's a pity, because the first act is cool. And I really like Kylo Ren.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I've said many times before: I see all the weird plot complaints about the movie and I just don't care.  I liked the new characters so much it just didn't matter that much to me.  Plus, the score is spectacular!  Calling BS on you, BS!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I can't argue with its success. That being said, I'm tired of "Passing of the Torch" movies. You know, "Hey, let's make the series about Mutt, female Ghostbusters, Will Smith who died in an accident's son, etc." While I especially didn't support milking the actual Star Wars episodes for more money when the series had a very obvious conclusion, if it was to happen, I wanted to see Luke, Han, the robots, Chewie, I guess Leia, Lando and all them back in action. Boy was I disappointed!

[mrbellamy 6,275]

The first act is kind of magical, basically right up until Han shows up. "Chewie we're home" is the high point of the movie and it doesn't quite know how to live up to that. But it's also never boring for more than a couple minutes at a time and manages to keep up its energy level throughout with enough pathos, humor, and visually comprehensible spectacle to deliver a pretty well-rounded entertainment until the end. The scope comes across feeling weirdly modest and simple in today's action/adventure landscape, it doesn't feel to me like a movie operating on "bigger is better" principles which I like.

2 hours ago, Brónach said:

I think that's exactly the issue. They have to find a way to suddenly not feature at all a famous character they've been using until this point that seemingly doesn't die in The Last Jedi and whose arc (if there was one) didn't end there. That's hard and many writers would find themselves into a corner.

Probably the greatest issue here is not to have thought of each movie as entirely self contained first.

Are you suggesting they should have nixed the trilogy structure altogether and just thrown on saga sequels like most movies? "Here's 7, this could be it. Okay now here's 8, this could be it!" I dunno if that would have been the better solution or very satisfying for Star Wars, and I'm also not sure if it would have helped the Leia situation, other than just never making an Ep 9. I don't know if doing it that way would have been easier to kill her off in between or shift the story away from her. 

Part of me right now almost feels like they should just wait 5, 10, hell 20 years and do a big time jump. Commit to spin-offs entirely in the meantime while Episode 9  becomes the stuff of legend. Then come back for the grandest of grand finales. Whether it's great or sucks, it'd be the ultimate hype! Only thing that I couldn't accept is that John Williams would not be scoring it but even that'd be easier to take if 9 took on some weird separate aura. Like 1-8 was the series and then 9 is the reunion special.

All of this also makes me wonder what the hell they would have done with 8 if Mark Hamill died in 2015.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Well, age and death didn't stop them from having a young Leia and weird Peter Cushing zombie in Rogue One.

[Nick1Ø66 4,708]

TFA did what it needed to do, but like Rogue One, I think it's a fairly uneven film. 

As someone said above, the first act really is pure magic, and works. Then it sags quite a bit in the middle, starting around the time those pirates show up and there's the fight/chase with the big Raiders boulder blob monster,  And there's something off about the whole sequence on Maz's planet that bothers me for reasons I'm not quite sure of. I don't think the "Cantina" scene works all that well either.

The last third is entertaining enough, but is a bit of a mess structurally.

I enjoyed the film, and again it did what it needed to do. The characters for the most part work, but IMO Abrams & Co. made some bad decisions regarding the state of the galaxy, the Resistance, the First Order, the new death star, and the whole general set up in an attempt to remake the first film that will cause problems for future instillments. In retrospect it's a lot like Abrams first Star Trek movie, and has a lot of the same issues.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I thought the Han/Chewie scene played all wrong despite Harrison Ford actually sounding like he did in the 80s. It was like an SNL skit. The scene on the planet was indeed a disaster. It's exactly where you need someone like George Lucas to step in and make sense of all this stuff. It's a little alien with Luke's lightsaber, a dream sequence and sitting around. Sounds like the whole middle act of The Empire Strikes Back, right? Only condensed and shitty.

[Nick1Ø66 4,708]

On 9/6/2017 at 0:21 AM, Muldoon said:

Hiring Trevorrow was stronger evidence that Disney didn't want "original voices." Firing Trevorrow only confirms that they heard about "Book of Henry" and they're not completely stupid.

Well maybe. But Disney hired Guy Ritchie to do Aladdin after the disaster what was King Arthur. And every other movie he ever did, each one of which sucks.

Which again begs the question. Why is Guy Ritchie allowed to continue to make movies?

[Damien F 1,742]

I would be very surprised if Johnson doesn't get this job. He's managed to get The Last Jedi through production without a hitch, will be seen as a very safe choice by Disney, is familiar with the cast and crew, and has publicly impressed enthusiasm for doing another Star Wars film in the past.

[Romão 2,274]

I agree that TFA really lost steam after that first third. But the final sequence, without dialogue, with music carrying the whole thing in its whole mythical grandeur really elevated the film for me

[Damien F 1,742]

The biggest problem I have with the second act of TFA is that Maz isn't a strong enough character to be a Yoda substitute.

Lupita Nyong'o is a strong and charismatic enough actor, that character probably would have been better if Lupita's role was live action.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Finally, people criticizing TFA. Where the hell have you all been for the past two years?

[Bilbo 3,709]

4 minutes ago, Damien F said:

The biggest problem I have with the second act of TFA is that Maz isn't a strong enough character to be a Yoda substitute.

Lupita Nyong'o is a strong and charismatic enough actor, that character probably would have been better if Lupita's role was live action.

 

I agree the character isn't great, I don't think live action would have made a difference too. 

 

She's too much "not Yoda" to really work. 

[mrbellamy 6,275]

5 hours ago, Damien F said:

I would be very surprised if Johnson doesn't get this job. He's managed to get The Last Jedi through production without a hitch, will be seen as a very safe choice by Disney, is familiar with the cast and crew, and has publicly impressed enthusiasm for doing another Star Wars film in the past.

I think it's his if he wants it. The question is will he want it. He said he would do another one in a heartbeat, so I guess we'll see how literally he meant that. Disney will probably make it hard to say no...

One aspect that I'm curious about is the fact that Trevorrow was planning on filming it in 65mm with John Schwartzman as cinematographer. Wonder if Johnson would replace Schwartzman with Steve Yedlin and if they'd still stick to that format?

[Matt C 452]

49 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

I think it's his if he wants it. The question is will he want it. He said he would do another one in a heartbeat, so I guess we'll see how literally he meant that. Disney will probably make it hard to say no...

One aspect that I'm curious about is the fact that Trevorrow was planning on filming it in 65mm with John Schwartzman as cinematographer. Wonder if Johnson would replace Schwartzman with Steve Yedlin and if they'd still stick to that format?

Schwartzman isn't going to stick around since Trevorrow left. Johnson will stick with DP Steve Yedlin, but I think they would aim for a mix of 35mm and 65mm film.

[mrbellamy 6,275]

I was just thinking that I know Schwartzman has been doing a lot of camera tests this year so depending on when they want to start (and Yedlin's immediate availability) it could just be a smoother transition to keep him around. I suppose he could still stay if they go with another director who has no particular loyalty to another cinematographer. 

And I do remember Johnson said awhile back that he wanted to do it for TLJ but couldn't for "specific logistical reasons".

So it'd be cool if he got to this time. 

[Brónach 1,302]

9 hours ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

I agree the character isn't great, I don't think live action would have made a difference too. 

She's too much "not Yoda" to really work. 

That's why she should have been NOT YODA, because what she does is randomly delivering a McGuffin they aren't looking for (and thus has no payoff as a character or as a MacGuffin)

She's an old ex-pirate. Go with that! Where's the ship! Also further exploration that people aware or feeling or users of the Force might not be Jedi at all (in fact pretty much most of them). I liked this in R1.

Honestly... looking obsessively at previous star wars movies might not be the way to go. They should look elsewhere for creative stimulus.

[toothless 963]

14 hours ago, Nick1066 said:

TFA did what it needed to do, but like Rogue One, I think it's a fairly uneven film. 

As someone said above, the first act really is pure magic, and works. Then it sags quite a bit in the middle, starting around the time those pirates show up and there's the fight/chase with the big Raiders boulder blob monster,  And there's something off about the whole sequence on Maz's planet that bothers me for reasons I'm not quite sure of. I don't think the "Cantina" scene works all that well either.

The last third is entertaining enough, but is a bit of a mess structurally.

I enjoyed the film, and again it did what it needed to do. The characters for the most part work, but IMO Abrams & Co. made some bad decisions regarding the state of the galaxy, the Resistance, the First Order, the new death star, and the whole general set up in an attempt to remake the first film that will cause problems for future instillments. In retrospect it's a lot like Abrams first Star Trek movie, and has a lot of the same issues.

I agree !

For those of you who understand French or who can accept bad auto tranlation from google, I suggest you watch these 2 x 30mn videos. I think he pretty much nailed what as wrong with TFA. As he says in the videos : It looks like Star wars, it taste like Star Wars but it's not Star Wars.

(The 8 first minutes are recap from previous trilogies)

 

 

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

Damn, i really didnt see that coming... i like jurassic world...and thought trevorrow was a decent director. Now i fear the direction of the Jurassic World trilogy is going...

 

As long a Williams finishes the sequel trilogy i dont care who directs it...

[Disco Stu 15,495]

24 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

 

As long a Williams finishes the sequel trilogy i dont care who directs it...

The most truthful statement I've yet read in this thread.

[Arpy 4,145]

I would love a Williams score any day, but I'd rather have a good film, and a good Star Wars film over a good score, I don't know, I guess I'm not a defeatist.

 

 

[John 2,032]

Blasphemy!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I think I'll mostly enjoy the sequel scores for their punchy dry recordings. I feel like I return to TFA to admire the recording, not necessarily the music.

[Jay 37,336]

Just catching up to this news. I'm.. completely ambivalent. Jurassic World wasn't great, wasn't terrible, it was... fine. 

The general trend of sacking directors who don't conform to a singular vision is somewhat alarming I suppose, but at the same time I just don't care about Star Wars like I did when I was younger so in the end it makes no difference to me. All these guys will keep making movies of one form or another so whatever one gets sacked that you like will just make something else.

 

3 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

As long a Williams finishes the sequel trilogy i dont care who directs it...

This! 

[Arpy 4,145]

One day we must contend with the fact that Williams won't be around. So not only will we have shitty films, we won't have any good music to go with it. If film scores exist to support the film, I'd rather have good films over scores.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Will these guys ever work in Hollywood again after being fired from Star Wars?

[Jay 37,336]

Yes if anything it gives them more cred. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

They defied the Mouse.

[Will 2,215]

I used to get really frustrated when Disney did things like this, but I've mostly gotten over it, I suppose, because I didn't really feel disappointed at this news. 

As Disco Stu said earlier in the thread, defending directors simply on principle is kind of stupid. It's not really worth getting angsty over the quality of a film before seeing it, in any case. So I'm going to try to give Kennedy the benefit of the doubt here, however hard that may often be, particularly with the whole Lucas situation. I think my frustration with how Lucas was treated had more to do with me defending Lucas on principle as the franchise creator, rather than any particular feelings about the films he made (although I do like the prequels more than many here). I'll try to look at the bright side of the Disney takeover.