The Rise of Skywalker Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker (JJ Abrams 2019)

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Finally!  Some appreciation!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

6 hours ago, Jay said:

Homage?  Sure.  Remake?  Uh, no.

 

I believe "homage" or "love letter" is how they refer to ripoffs nowadays.

[Bilbo 3,709]

It's all the rage. That's how we've ended up with shite like Stranger Things. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

Visionary director. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The weirdest one is Star Trek (2009), which is an homage to Star Wars (1977).

 

???

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

9 hours ago, Evil-Lyn said:

The acting in the prequels is consistent with the OT. Mark and Carrie were wooden and awkward. Harrison Ford in the first one is quite bad at many points. He's like a completely different character in Empire 

 

Yeah but in the OT they were pretty much the only characters that were wooden and awkward - the supporting characters (Vader, Tarkin, Obi-Wan, Lando, the Emperor, Yoda etc) were all very colourful and offset the bland leads. Almost every character who appears in the PT has the same dead-eyed expression spouting the same awkward dialogue.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

At least in Empire, I never really thought of anybody's acting as "wooden", though I've seen a lot of people say that the acting in the original movies sucked. Are there certain examples, especially in Empire, that people think of when they make that claim? (I won't defend Return of the Jedi )

[DominicCobb 194]

7 hours ago, Evil-Lyn said:

 

I believe "homage" or "love letter" is how they refer to ripoffs nowadays.

 

This has been a thing since the 1960s, at the least.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,516]

10 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

"Many people said The Force Awakens was a remake of A New Hope. It was not. It was an homage to A New Hope. A Star Wars movie that was an homage to another Star Wars movie. I thought it was very clever. I liked it." - J.J. Abrams, Director Extraordinaire.

 

9 hours ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Visionary director. 

 

Of course. He's a cinematic game-changer 

 

As Gertie once said: "give me a break!".

[Bilbo 3,709]

9 hours ago, Evil-Lyn said:

The weirdest one is Star Trek (2009), which is an homage to Star Wars (1977).

 

???

 

The actual tree is:

 

TFA is an homage to 2009 Star Track which is an homage to 1977 Star Wars.

 

The original Star Wars is an homage to several things and not just one. Which is why it's best .

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Maybe Episode IX will be an homage to TFA? That'd be awesome!

[Bilbo 3,709]

It's JJ so I wouldn't expect anything else. 

[Incanus 5,714]

52 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Maybe Episode IX will be an homage to TFA? That'd be awesome!

I am so much looking forward to seeing the next First Order superweapon the Galaxy Annihilator 3000, the solar system sized station capable of destroying whole galaxies!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,516]

 

I want to see what the First Order does with a 6000 SUX.

I wonder if it'll throw-in a Blaupunkt?

[Brónach 1,302]

1 hour ago, Incanus said:

I am so much looking forward to seeing the next First Order superweapon the Galaxy Annihilator 3000, the solar system sized station capable of destroying whole galaxies!

 

Lucasfilm (instead of Disney) needs more cinematic and non-cinematic references or they'll tire the audience quickly. Star Wars can't only drink from Star Wars...

[James 119]

Just now, Docteur Qui said:

 

Yeah but in the OT they were pretty much the only characters that were wooden and awkward - the supporting characters (Vader, Tarkin, Obi-Wan, Lando, the Emperor, Yoda etc) were all very colourful and offset the bland leads. Almost every character who appears in the PT has the same dead-eyed expression spouting the same awkward dialogue.

 

The same with the scenarios. The of TFA are a bad copy of the first movie in all situations. Zero creativity.

[Chen G. 3,949]

10 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Maybe Episode IX will be an homage to TFA? That'd be awesome!

 

That's actually more than likely. I mean, I don't think it would as closely resemble it in the way that The Force Awakens resembles the original Star Wars.

 

But, if you look at how much of territory gets re-trodden by Return of the Jedi, you'd be amazed: Tatooine (forty minutes worth of it!), the Death Star, Vader being someone's lapdog. And it's become something of a tradition for the third installment to revisit stuff from the original (e.g Dark Knight Rises) under the guise of "completing a circle." To my mind, its part of the reason why third installments are typically not the best of the series.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Revenge of the Sith was the best one and nothing like the others (be it prequels or originals) aside from basic Star Warsy parallels. It's the exception to the rule.

[Matt C 452]

1 hour ago, Evil-Lyn said:

Revenge of the Sith was the best one and nothing like the others (be it prequels or originals) aside from basic Star Warsy parallels. It's the exception to the rule.

 

It still had shitty dialogue.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Does anyone here like Star Wars?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

If they take issue with shitty dialogue, I don't see how they could.

[Bilbo 3,709]

I do! 

Complaining about acting and dialogue is Star Wars is pretty stupid. You're watching the wrong movie kid.

[Fancyarcher 350]

I certainly don't go to Star Wars for the acting. I go there for the entertainment, spectacle, story, effects, and the usually great music. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

....score....

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

...Palpatine...

[Bilbo 3,709]

2 minutes ago, Fancyarcher said:

I certainly don't go to Star Wars for the acting. I go there for the entertainment, spectacle, story, effects...

 

Exactly and that's why TFA feels flat to me. It's too safe. It's competently acted but it just feels too vanilla. Star Wars by numbers. 

[Fancyarcher 350]

3 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

 

Exactly and that's why TFA feels flat to me. It's too safe. It's competently acted but it just feels too vanilla. Star Wars by numbers. 

 

I think TFA was a very solid re-start for the franchise, but I do hope TJA goes into a different direction, and isn't just merely a retread of Empire (please). The new trilogy needs to stand out for the original too after all.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It shouldn't have existed to begin with, but it needed a story by George Lucas. It didn't feel like real Star Wars to me. Of course, Rogue One was much, much worse in that regard, but at least that one was a little different. Actually, now that I think about it, it wasn't aside from the ending. Lucas' story concepts were probably too bold and Disney was just trying to make more of the same movies and repeat the success of the old ones. Stick to the proven formula. This is how the Walt Disney Company makes so much money.

[Brónach 1,302]

Rogue One feeling veeeery slightlyyyy different was a plus for me. But it's mostly details, like the passive main character, the heroes doing uglier shit, no jedi, using Vader imitating the ending structure of Alien.

 

It's more effective than TFA about the message of killing nazis, too.

 

Another plus when compared to TFA is that it contains actual lore in it. If what's cool is the universe, then why do we learn nothing in TFA?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It even has Asians. Unheard of in Star Wars.

[Arpy 4,145]

1 hour ago, Brónach said:

Rogue One feeling veeeery slightlyyyy different was a plus for me. But it's mostly details, like the passive main character, the heroes doing uglier shit, no jedi, using Vader imitating the ending structure of Alien.

 

It's more effective than TFA about the message of killing nazis, too.

 

Another plus when compared to TFA is that it contains actual lore in it. If what's cool is the universe, then why do we learn nothing in TFA?

Because TFA is new territory, after the wars and the downfall of the Empire. The pace at which TFA moves also means introducing any lore heavy scenes would be a huge drag. Maybe the next two films can expand on the lore, but I have to say I'm certainly not complaining about it. Save the nonsensical lore for the Visual Dictionary!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

You are on this forum, but we do no grant you the rank of JW Fan.

[Arpy 4,145]

Alright, @Evil-Lyn get ready to get your hand cut off and force pushed out of an office window.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

We must move quickly if the forum is to survive.

[Brónach 1,302]

8 hours ago, Evil-Lyn said:

It even has Asians. Unheard of in Star Wars.

 

TLJ too, but the ones in Rogue One are famous in China. Big movie studios in the USA know very well they no longer make movies only for the USA, and that changes decisions and things they do

 

I think the chick in TLJ will kiss Finn. Poe with either be interacting with Leia or abandoned again, and Rey (Rei?) will have most of the film and relegate the other subplots to nothing.

 

Although just because it made The Lord of the Rings bloody epic we don't need to separate everyone all the time...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

10 hours ago, Fancyarcher said:

I think TFA was a very solid re-start for the franchise, but I do hope TJA goes into a different direction, and isn't just merely a retread of Empire (please). The new trilogy needs to stand out for the original too after all.

 

But... But the Ring Theory!

[Bilbo 3,709]

8 hours ago, Arpy said:

Because TFA is new territory, after the wars and the downfall of the Empire. The pace at which TFA moves also means introducing any lore heavy scenes would be a huge drag. Maybe the next two films can expand on the lore, but I have to say I'm certainly not complaining about it. Save the nonsensical lore for the Visual Dictionary!

 

They could have done something interesting with Maz instead of it being the empty void and plot dump it was. 

 

We we could have found out a bit more about what’s happened over the last 30 years.

 

We got some of that in ANH and TFA is basically ANH anyway so it could have been done. 

[Arpy 4,145]

They could've done something interesting with Maz: replace her with Force Ghost Yoda.

[Brónach 1,302]

23 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

 

They could have done something interesting with Maz instead of it being the empty void and plot dump it was. 

 

We we could have found out a bit more about what’s happened over the last 30 years.

 

We got some of that in ANH and TFA is basically ANH anyway so it could have been done. 

 

There's no worldbuilding once we leave the planet destroyed by a space battle with scavengers in it. "Lore" can mean several things.

[Arpy 4,145]

Just now, Brónach said:

 

There's no worldbuilding once we leave the planet destroyed by a space battle with scavengers in it. "Lore" can mean several things.

You mean Jakku?

[Bilbo 3,709]

25 minutes ago, Arpy said:

They could've done something interesting with Maz: replace her with Force Ghost Yoda.

 

Or just cut the character entirely!

1 minute ago, Arpy said:

You mean Jakku?

 

You mean Not-Tattoine? 

[Chen G. 3,949]

11 hours ago, Fancyarcher said:

 

I think TFA was a very solid re-start for the franchise, but I do hope TJA goes into a different direction, and isn't just merely a retread of Empire (please). The new trilogy needs to stand out for the original too after all.

 

Even from the outset we knew it was going to be a lot like Empire. JJ left the story at the starting point of Empire and the choice of a more cerebral director a-la Kirshner was another sign post. The marketing is pushing a darker tone for this episode which is straight out of Empire, too.

 

There are even structural parallels: it seems like, early on in the film, the rebels will be driven out of another remote sanctuary in a battle (with Imperial Walkeds and all) that ultimately takes off into space as they flee and Rose and Finn will break out from the fleet. There are multiple storylines (Empire had two) and there are parallels between Luke and Rey's story to that of Luke's time with Yoda, while Rose and Finn are evocative of Han and Leia, even if they don't go down the romantic avenue. Hell, now that I think about it, Canto Bight and that shady-Benicio-del-Toro-character we'll meet therein sounds a hell of a lot like Lando and his Palace.

 

10 hours ago, Brónach said:

Rogue One feeling veeeery slightlyyyy different was a plus for me. But it's mostly details, like the passive main character, the heroes doing uglier shit, no jedi, using Vader imitating the ending structure of Alien.

Where it fell flat for me was the lack of character typical of Garett Edwards. The Jeda/Jerusalem comparison was WAY too on the nose, as were the references to other Star Wars films. The action, while impressive in the third act, was very sluggish in the earlier parts of the film. It's not a film that I can see myself rewatching, and I can't say the same for any of the episodes, even though I only rewatch one of them just to make fun of it.

 

1 hour ago, Brónach said:

I think the chick in TLJ will kiss Finn. Poe with either be interacting with Leia or abandoned again, and Rey (Rei?) will have most of the film and relegate the other subplots to nothing.

 

Although just because it made The Lord of the Rings bloody epic we don't need to separate everyone all the time...

 

I don't know if it will go into romantic territory. At least not just yet. As for the non-linear storytelling, that's part of what's bothering me in this film. Empire only had two storylines. Lord of the Rings (and The Hobbit, for that matter) had as many as four, but the filmmakers knew to stress out the central storyline or to conclude most of he subplots before the climax. Return of the Jedi had three (originally, four) threads running through the climax which is one too many.

 

this is going to have at least four (Luke/Rey, Kylo/Snoke, Rose/Finn, Poe/Leia) and a hell of a lot of characters because they decided to revisit the horribly underused Hux, Phasma and Maz, and there's a new Ressistance General, Rose appearantly has a sister, etc...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

So, no one is concerned that the Ring Theory might be broken with TLJ?

 

[Arpy 4,145]

Just now, BloodBoal said:

So, no one is concerned that the Ring Theory might be broken with TLJ?

 

Fuck the Ring Theory, that was done in The Hobbit and that film series was a spectacular failure!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Arpy 4,145]

3 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

 

Or just cut the character entirely!

 

You mean Not-Tattoine? 

I was going to suggest that, but I thought Yoda would be a better character to bridge the trilogies, would know about Luke, and Rey's heritage. Instead of giving Rey a lightsaber, Yoda would tell her to find Luke, just as Obi-Wan told Luke to find Yoda in ESB.

[Chen G. 3,949]

The occasional call back or parallel isn't a "Ring theory." It's just a recurring theme in the storytelling and means of lending cohesion to the whole thing. It's done reasonably well in The Hobbit and in Revenge of the Sith. Phantom Menace isn't too bad in that regard, either. Maybe The Last Jedi will also be reasonably original.

 

However, if you take an earlier entry and copy off the narrative structure, some shots, a few characters, multiple locations, innumerable plot points, etc - that's Ring theory or, put more bluntly, bad screenwriting.

 

It's also true to Attack of the Clones borrowing from Empire, too.

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

1 minute ago, Chen G. said:

The occasional call back or parallel isn't a "Ring theory." It's just a recurring theme in the storytelling and means of lending cohesion to the whole thing.

 

However, if you take an earlier entry and copy off the narrative structure, some shots, a few characters, multiple locations, innumerable plot points, etc - that's Ring theory or, put more bluntly, bad screenwriting.

 

It's also true to Attack of the Clones and Empire, too.

 

Tell that to Will!

 

We've tried, but he wouldn't listen!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Star Wars Ring theory is different. That's the brilliance of Lucas!