The Rise of Skywalker Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker (JJ Abrams 2019)

[Pieter Boelen 740]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

Yes, but genre films don't thrive in peacefull worlds; more often than not, they rely on some large-scale conflict within their world, essentially the equivalent of a large-scale war in our terms. I don't know how many wars you experienced (I experienced two), but its quite a dark, harrowing event. 

 

Not to say that every film in that genre needs to be outright harrowing (*paging The Battle of the Five Armies*) but they do need to be quite dark. In fact, I would argue that even in crafting a "fun" flick, you need low, dark points to constrast the fun, so it doesn't become a constant. You need to leverage fun with a sense of gravity.

Indeed a healthy balance often works well. Clearly have the dark side, just don't excessively revel in it.

I reckon films like Star Wars 4 and 5, Indiana Jones 1-3 and Jurassic Park have the right approach.

[Chen G. 3,941]

Of that bunch, I would say only "Empire Strikes Back" can really be characterized as "dark". The others are more lighthearted.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Empire's "darkness" is greatly exaggerated. It's still a popcorn space movie for adolescents.

[mstrox 6,637]

^^^^

[Chen G. 3,941]

25 minutes ago, Philippe Roaché said:

Empire's "darkness" is greatly exaggerated. It's still a popcorn space movie for adolescents.

 

Oh, sure. I'm not saying its a grim motion picture or anything like that, but its certainly far less lighthearted than any of the aforementioned examples.

 

Its a prime example of striking a good balance between dark and fun.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

ESB had no Ewoks, so the series hadn't become good yet.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Episode III is a lot more grim. The entire universe loses.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It's fine if you want the Emperor to win.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

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[Chen G. 3,941]

8 hours ago, Philippe Roaché said:

Episode III is a lot more grim. The entire universe loses.

 

Yep.

 

Not to mention the murder of children! And Anakin being burnt; And Dooku being decapitated in cold blood.

 

Props to Lucas for being so bold!

[Pieter Boelen 740]

On 21/02/2018 at 1:54 PM, Chen G. said:

Of that bunch, I would say only "Empire Strikes Back" can really be characterized as "dark". The others are more lighthearted.

In "Star Wars" there are burned corpses, torture and an entire planet blown up.

But no huge fuss is made over it, so it doesn't feel oppressive.

 

"Empire Strikes Back" did manage to strike a pretty good balance between dark and entertaining.

Many other films have tried, but more often than not, they fall to one side or another.

[Chen G. 3,941]

1 minute ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

But no huge fuss is made over it, so it doesn't feel oppressive.

 

Exactly! Its the old Walt Disney approach: You handle the dark moments by nestling them in a lot of lighthearted material, see the death of Bambi's mom.

 

The same is true of the originl Star Wars: Ben's death is both preceded and followed by exuberent action, which doesn't permit the audience to wallow in the sense of loss. By contrast, after Luke discovers Vader is his father, the rest of his screen-time continues to be informed by that revelation: He dangles under Cloud City having evaded Vader, and is later shown conversing with Vader in his mind. But the very end of the film is much more upbeat, so it doesn't feel outright tragic. Even with Revenge of the Sith, Lucas inserted a more hopeful final scene.

 

I contrast that with something like Gandalf's demise in Fellowship of the Ring or the death of Bruce's parents in Batman Begins, or even Murron's death in Braveheart, where the weight of the death continues to linger over the film, and the few minutes immediately following the death are dedicated entirely for the characters and, by extension, the audience, grieving.

 

[Pieter Boelen 740]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I contrast that with something like Gandalf's demise in Fellowship of the Ring or the death of Bruce's parents in Batman Begins, or even Murron's death in Braveheart, where the weight of the death continues to linger over the film, and the few minutes immediately following the death are dedicated entirely for the characters and, by extension, the audience, grieving.

Sometimes the one approach fits best and sometimes it's the other.

For Lord of the Rings, that additional emotional level works wonders and fits like a glove.

[Chen G. 3,941]

Yeah, but you do want more than a modicum of gravity, in any film that isn't an outright comedy. Again, if not along the lines of The Fellowship of the Ring, than certainly at least along the lines of Empire Strikes Back.

 

If its more lighthearted than that, it becomes very difficult to take the film seriously enough for it to register emotionally. And, with a concluding episode, you'd expect some sort of real poignancy to be had.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

For a concluding episode, I suppose that does make sense. But for Star Wars, they still need to avoid shocking the young ones in the audience too much.

I'll be curious to see what they do. Hopefully they'll be able to make it resonate without requiring "compensation through Teddy Bears".

[John 2,032]

'Star Wars: Episode IX' Script is Complete, Filming to Begin in July

[Chen G. 3,941]

2 hours ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

But for Star Wars, they still need to avoid shocking the young ones in the audience too much.

 

Kids can handle much more than you'd think.

[Balahkay 627]

59 minutes ago, JohnSolo said:

'Star Wars: Episode IX' Script is Complete, Filming to Begin in July

 

Delayed from June to the end of July now? 

 

Once Solo is out, Disney will have a good 1.5 years to promote this film without stepping on the toes of another SW film.  I'm hoping Abrams will throw a bone every now and again during production like he did with TFA.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

Kids can handle much more than you'd think.

I'm sure some can. I know some that definitely can't.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,489]

46 minutes ago, someonefun124 said:

Delayed from June to the end of July now? 

 

They are still busy negotiating Harrison Ford's salary.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

4 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

I'm sure some can. I know some that definitely can't.

 

I watched Friday the 13th movies as a 7-year-old with no problems.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

I saw some creepy movies at a young age.

[Bespin 8,472]

1 minute ago, Jerry said:

I saw some creepy movies at a young age.

 

Not very kind to talk about the prequels that way.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,489]

He meant TFA, and TLJ.

[Balahkay 627]

Maybe we'll finally see Poe shirtless this time.  

[Bespin 8,472]

10 minutes ago, someonefun124 said:

Maybe we'll finally see Poe shirtless this time.  

 

That's really the most relevant thing you wrote today.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

1 hour ago, Denise Bryson said:

 

I watched Friday the 13th movies as a 7-year-old with no problems.

In primary school, I watched The Lost World and liked it a lot.

But I don't see my brother being able to deal with that just yet and he's halfway into Secondary School.

Different people, eh?

[Bespin 8,472]

1 hour ago, Denise Bryson said:

I watched Friday the 13th movies as a 7-year-old with no problems.

 

Next one is in april.  Never got a problem with those movies too.

 

I just try to keep them sharp.

 

 

 

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

I watched Creepshow when I was 3 years old, but couldn't watch Toy Story because Rex scared me.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

40 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

Next one is in april.  Never got a problem with those movies too.

 

I just try to keep them sharp.

 

 

 

 

Is it from the Quebec JW street gang's annual meeting?

[Bespin 8,472]

ok, Friday the 13th, you did'nt get it right?

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

I don't care which date you meet!

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

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[Dixon Hill 4,232]

Really?  I know a couple people who saw it at that age and credit it with affecting their life in a deeply positive way.

[mstrox 6,637]

Childhood and adolescence is weird, man.  You never know what weird thing is going to affect you.  I was terrified of the "werewolf" from Gene Wilder's Haunted Honeymoon for probably many years beyond when that fear would be reasonable.

[Holko 9,491]

I distinctly remember being utterly terrified of Philosopher's Stone and my parents having to change the channel not a minute into the movie. I still find the opening bars of Prologue more chilling than I probably should, they almost sound like the titles to an 80's B slasher. I was 5 at the time, had already read the first two books a couple of times, and it may well have been the first blockbuster I ever "attempted" to watch, up until that point I only saw cartoons, retro Hungarian kids' films and the '93 Homeward Bound a million times. I must have been 7 or 8 when I properly saw it for the first time, but it (along with the score) immediately became one of the defining cornerstones of my childhood, and it was an honour to be at the LtP concert in Budapest last year.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

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[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

Deep Blue Sea rendered it so I couldn't sleep without the light on for weeks. 

The death of the female camp counselor in Piranha also ruined sleep for awhile.

Jaws? Meh. Baby Me could handle it. 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

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[mstrox 6,637]

You're all making me feel really old!

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

I recently came across genuine "Star Wars is being ruined by feminists!" posts for the first time when looking up something else. It..was kind of depressing, witnessing first hand that people like that actually exist. I like how people are whining that new Star Wars is being "ruined by SJWs", when every movie so far is still being written and directed by white males.

[John 2,032]

What I find even funnier are Trekkies that claim to hate "SJWs". It's as if the past 50 years of the franchise went right over their dense little noggins.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The issue with new female-centric SW is that the female characters aren't very good aside from Rey in TFA. Rose is one of the worst SW characters ever. Leia is just old and miserable in the new movies and Ellie Sattler basically has no character and is barely in it until she, well, you know. And that Captain Plasma is the most pointless character in it. Remember when she came back out of nowhere and miraculously managed to be one of three survivors along with Finn and Rose in that huge bay that exploded just so she could be easily defeated? I'd say the odds against it would make even the most reckless gambler cringe.

 

Now, DS9 and Voyager had some great female characters.

[Chen G. 3,941]

Yeah, Rose isn't really a good character, and Holdo and especially Phasma aren't really character, they're figures.

[Bespin 8,472]

7 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Yeah, Rose isn't really a good character (...)

 

Why you say that, because she is a little bit round? 

[Chen G. 3,941]

To begin with, I think her introduction is heavy handed. Before she even appears on screen, we are treated to a long, heroic death scene on the part of a character who we later learn is her sister. Because we have no investment in that character, as soon as we realize Rose's connection with her, we understand that we were treated to that death solely to make Rose more sympathetic, which can't help but feel heavy handed.

 

Beyond that, I think her actions imply a lack of perspective and of urgency. She goes with Finn on this urgent mission to find a codebreaker, and yet she finds the time to bemoan the lifestyle of the locals, to free animals - issues that are clearly of secondary importance to the main objective. And again just before the third act: she stops Finn from going through on the necessary course of action.

[Bespin 8,472]

Trying to analyze the latest Star Wars and its characters is totally irrelevant, I mean the only important thing to remember is: $1.3 billion.

 

JJ baby is a fool to have signed for a sequel.

 

I mean, Star Wars... it can destroys careers.

 

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

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[Docteur Qui 1,544]

1 hour ago, Philippe Roaché said:

The issue with new female-centric SW is that the female characters aren't very good aside from Rey in TFA. Rose is one of the worst SW characters ever. Leia is just old and miserable in the new movies and Ellie Sattler basically has no character and is barely in it until she, well, you know. And that Captain Plasma is the most pointless character in it. Remember when she came back out of nowhere and miraculously managed to be one of three survivors along with Finn and Rose in that huge bay that exploded just so she could be easily defeated? I'd say the odds against it would make even the most reckless gambler cringe.

 

Now, DS9 and Voyager had some great female characters.

 

Voyager's female characters deserved a better show. Janeway, B'Elanna and Seven were all excellent.

 

I don't have much of a problem with Rose. Her overly-emotional and earnest nature is a nice offset to Rey's general stoicism (though even she gets to be emotional and isn't punished for it, which I appreciate). She complements Finn well, he has a similar perkiness to her.

 

I do think that JJ writes for women better than most of his contemporaries though. I'm glad he's wrapping up Rey's journey, I feel like her success as a character owes a lot to him (but mostly to Daisy who is sublimely charismatic).

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

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