The Rise of Skywalker Star Wars IX The Rise of Skywalker (JJ Abrams 2019)

[Holko 9,499]

If they were Sith, they would call themselves Darth Snoke and Darth Kylo.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

What are they, then?

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

Wanna-be-siths.

[Holko 9,499]

Generic Dark Side users. There's no need to associate themselves with any old failed order or cult.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Dark Jedi?

[Holko 9,499]

That's a stupid old term form the old EU before we knew anything about the Dark Side. It would imply they're a dark parallel of the Jedi Order, which they're not. That would be something like seeking the same kind of peace and balance via constraining rules in a big organization, but using the Dark Side also instead of the Light only. What we've seen so far is that Snoke and Kylo only use their powers to lead the First Order and intimidate the enemy, we've no idea what kind of organization the Knights of Ren is - Kylo trained them, but are they a mercenary force, a personal guard with no Force Powers who were conveniently not aboard the Supremacy, or an association of Dark Side users?

[Chen G. 3,943]

48 minutes ago, Margo Channing said:

Are Snoke and Kylo technically Sith or just dark force users?

 

Technically - no, they aren't sith (or so I'm told), but essentially - yes, they are.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

Maybe they're just misunderstood and are in fact the good guys.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

From my point of view the Jedi were evil!

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Dark jedi is a jedi fallen to the dark side. He also can be sith a knight of ren or whatever..

 

Anakin skywalker and Ben solo are dark jedi...as is assajj ventress and dooku. 

 

Or at least that's what I think

[Arpy 4,145]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

If they were Sith, they would call themselves Darth Snoke and Darth Kylo.

No, they would have special Sith names; Count Dooku wasn't called 'Darth Dooku', he was called 'Darth Tyrannus' just as Sheev Palpatine was called 'Darth Sidious'.

[Holko 9,499]

Kylo isn't his real name, he could use it. We know nothing about Snoke, or his name's trustworthiness. The point was the Darth.

[Arpy 4,145]

Kylo and Snoke weren't Jedi, Dark Jedi or Sith Lords, they were force sensitive beings using it for their own nefarious purposes. It could be the Dark Side, the Sith, like the Jedi seem to be religious cults based around the force.

[Chen G. 3,943]

Whatever you want to call it, they're for all intents and purposes the same; just like the ressistance is the rebels. Its a continuation of the same conflict.

[Holko 9,499]

Yes, they are the bad guys.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Baddies.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Sith. I hate these guys.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

They're actually not that bad.

 

Btw, who else thinks Snoke survived and now lives on the back head of Harry Potter?

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Kylo and Snoke stood up to be counted with the enemy of everything the Jedi stood for!

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

2 hours ago, Arpy said:

Kylo .... weren't Jedi, Dark Jedi or Sith Lords

Kylo was a jedi...

[Arpy 4,145]

Ben was training to become a Jedi under Luke, after he was betrayed and took on the name Kylo he was no longer a Jedi.

[Pellaeon 593]

He is a Ren. Whatever that is.

[Holko 9,499]

The Knights of Ren got their name after their master, Kylo Ren. Or something like that.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It's all too complicated now.

[crumbs 14,300]

Geez I don't envy the position JJ is in for the this film. If he doubles down on TLJ, half the fanbase will crack the shits. If he just reverts to safe mode, he essentially repeats the same mistakes he made on TFA and pisses off the other half.

 

This film is basically the impossible sequel.

[Chen G. 3,943]

Plus its the concluding film, and those are always tricky.

 

And he's not the originally intended director; and he has to contextualize Fisher's death; and to wrap up the entire nonet...

 

 

[crumbs 14,300]

Yep, the whole Fisher situation is another problematic issue. 

 

Plus how to deal with Luke, because clearly that was one of the issues that saw Trevorrow get the ass. Do you bring him back in a meaningful capacity (Force Ghost haunting Kylo)? Do you retcon what TLJ did just to appease the fanbase? Do you stick to your guns and let the past stay dead?

 

And as you said, you have to wrap up not only this trilogy but the trilogy of trilogies! It's a hard ask for any director and writer. There'd be less than a handful of people I'd entrust with that job... and Trevorrow definitely isn't on that list.

 

And the deadline is less than 18 months away, without even starting production...

 

No wonder these directors love Williams writing the score, because it's one aspect of the production they can basically just "set and forget."

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

On the note of Kylo Ren and Snoke and what they're title is on the dark side, it doesn't really matter. Like @Chen G. said they aren't Sith but they are essentially. It's just like the First Order isn't the Empire but it is essentially. I hope JJ continues that sort of Nazi feel to the First Order.

[Chen G. 3,943]

With Kylo's "Let the past die" philosophy, reorganising The First Order as a communist movement may be more fitting...

[Nick Parker 3,040]

9 minutes ago, Jerry said:

On the note of Kylo Ren and Snoke and what they're title is on the dark side, it doesn't really matter. Like @Chen G. said they aren't Sith but they are essentially. It's just like the First Order isn't the Empire but it is essentially. I hope JJ continues that sort of Nazi feel to the First Order.

 

I miss when the bad guys were all old crusty white British people. It feels weird to see a young, pretty black woman for example as a part of a Nazi style regime. Is that sexist of me to say? 

[stewdog1 50]

3 hours ago, crumbs said:

Yep, the whole Fisher situation is another problematic issue. 

 

Plus how to deal with Luke, because clearly that was one of the issues that saw Trevorrow get the ass. Do you bring him back in a meaningful capacity (Force Ghost haunting Kylo)? Do you retcon what TLJ did just to appease the fanbase? Do you stick to your guns and let the past stay dead?

 

And as you said, you have to wrap up not only this trilogy but the trilogy of trilogies! It's a hard ask for any director and writer. There'd be less than a handful of people I'd entrust with that job... and Trevorrow definitely isn't on that list.

 

And the deadline is less than 18 months away, without even starting production...

 

No wonder these directors love Williams writing the score, because it's one aspect of the production they can basically just "set and forget."

Yeah, while the movie had it's flaws, I can overlook that.  But I absolutely hated what RJ did to Luke.  Hamill had an interview recently where he said JJ was planning on showing just how powerful Luke was when Rey showed up and a much more meaningful reason why he was there.  RJ just decided to piss all over the character and piss on an audience that had been waiting over 30 years to see their hero again.  So retcon his story and redeem it the best you can.  I'd be ok with him rematerializing on that planet he was fighting Kylo.  Like he wakes up there.

[Pellaeon 593]

4 hours ago, crumbs said:

Geez I don't envy the position JJ is in for the this film. If he doubles down on TLJ, half the fanbase will crack the shits. If he just reverts to safe mode, he essentially repeats the same mistakes he made on TFA and pisses off the other half.

 

TFA pissed people off?

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

I was too busy staring at Daisy Ridley to notice the movie going around around her.

[Pellaeon 593]

Good cheekbones.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

6 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

I miss when the bad guys were all old crusty white British people. It feels weird to see a young, pretty black woman for example as a part of a Nazi style regime. Is that sexist of me to say? 

I can reason with you. I think if Star Wars starts getting too deep into race, gender, and social equality it will lose what we love it for. Right now racism and sexism are huge and difficult problems in society, and the movement of certain demographics and groups worldwide has mixed reactions. Some people support these concepts and ideals, while others do not. It's a societal mess and it doesn't belong in Star Wars. That's not to say we can't have these people have roles in Star Wars, or cinema for that matter, it's just that it's all in a galaxy far, far away-not here in 2018- far, far away. I don't feel like it belongs and although I'm accepting in partiality, I will not necessarily agree.

 

Please note that in saying this I absolutely do not support the work of the idiots who harassed Kelly Marie Tran, made a non-female cut of The Last Jedi, and condoned any other insensitive and crude acts surrounding the franchise.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Who the hell are the knights of ren? Did I fall asleep during these movies? Is that something from Rogue One or the Solo movie?

[Arpy 4,145]

7 hours ago, Pellaeon said:

 

TFA pissed people off?

Oh god yes, people were up in arms for weeks complaining it was unoriginal and that it was a remake of A New Hope. The backlash TFA received pales in comparison to that of TLJ though.

1 hour ago, Batman's Diet Coke said:

Who the hell are the knights of ren? Did I fall asleep during these movies? Is that something from Rogue One or the Solo movie?

They seemed like a handful of ex-Jedi disciples who left with Ben after he destroyed the temples. The two films thus far haven't really explained who or what they are, or where they are during the events of the films! There's probably some explanation buried deep in some novelization, maybe they'll reunite with Ben in this film, possibly like in the force-vision Rey saw in TFA?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Print is dead.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

4 hours ago, Jerry said:

I can reason with you. I think if Star Wars starts getting too deep into race, gender, and social equality it will lose what we love it for. Right now racism and sexism are huge and difficult problems in society, and the movement of certain demographics and groups worldwide has mixed reactions. Some people support these concepts and ideals, while others do not. It's a societal mess and it doesn't belong in Star Wars. That's not to say we can't have these people have roles in Star Wars, or cinema for that matter, it's just that it's all in a galaxy far, far away-not here in 2018- far, far away. I don't feel like it belongs and although I'm accepting in partiality, I will not necessarily agree.

 

Please note that in saying this I absolutely do not support the work of the idiots who harassed Kelly Marie Tran, made a non-female cut of The Last Jedi, and condoned any other insensitive and crude acts surrounding the franchise.

 

MISOGYNIST CHAUVINIST RACIST PIG

ALL MEN MUST DIE

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Women and children first. Yes.

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

8 hours ago, Margo Channing said:

MISOGYNIST CHAUVINIST RACIST PIG

ALL MEN MUST DIE

That post has no intent of that motive. I simply was saying that racial, gender, ethical, and social issues of the world don't need to be pulled into Star Wars to make it exciting. I love the characters and the diverse cast, but if the only reason things are the way they are is for some sort of social justification dripping into cinema, then I think it's a bit misguided. I support these many groups fighting for rights and dealing with long withstanding issues in society, just not in the context of Star Wars being mounded into our culture today. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Jerry, do not attempt to discuss politics, or social issues seriously with either Margo Channing or Batman's Diet Coke.

 

They're not interested.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Guns cause hearing damage.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

49 minutes ago, Margo Channing said:

Guns cause hearing damage.

 

See.

[Chen G. 3,943]

22 hours ago, Jerry said:

That post has no intent of that motive. I simply was saying that racial, gender, ethical, and social issues of the world don't need to be pulled into Star Wars to make it exciting. I love the characters and the diverse cast, but if the only reason things are the way they are is for some sort of social justification dripping into cinema, then I think it's a bit misguided. I support these many groups fighting for rights and dealing with long withstanding issues in society, just not in the context of Star Wars being mounded into our culture today. 

 

I only have issues with diversity in films when I feel that it affects the storytelling or immerssion, which thankfully Disney's Star Wars is yet to cross into. However, there's some evidence to sugges that it is something of a goal for Kathleen Kennedy.

 

Star Wars films are, in large part, action-adventure films, which is a masculine genre by nature - not through social constructs. It therefore stands to reason for the cast of such a film to be male-dominated and not correspond with the actual demographic.

[Jurassic Shark 12,024]

3 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Star Wars films are, in large part, action-adventure films, which is a masculine genre by nature and not through social constructs. It therefore stands to reason for the cast of such a film to be male-dominated and not correspond with the actual demographic.

 

Maybe the women were more masculine in a galaxy far, far away.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

11 hours ago, Margo Channing said:

Guns cause hearing damage.

 

Also tend to cause damage to mouth, if you have good aim like Bugs.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

11 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Maybe the women were more masculine in a galaxy far, far away.

 

They certainly aren't very feminine or sexy. Padme sometimes, but she's a frigid weirdo too a lot of the time.

[Bayesian 1,359]

There are a lot of ways to define sexy.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

16 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Jerry, do not attempt to discuss politics, or social issues seriously with either Margo Channing or Batman's Diet Coke.

 

They're not interested.

 

Not interested. Although. Selina Kyle might be there.