BloodBoal 7,538 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 13 hours ago, E.T. and Elliot said: Everyone wants the complete score, I want a shorter OST! Yeah, but the difference is that what you want is easily obtainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: Yeah, but the difference is that what you want is easily obtainable. Too difficult to make playslists from the LOOOOOOONNGGGGG albums. The composers should produce 30 minute albums to cater to the people who want only the most hummable passages from film scores. Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 17 hours ago, E.T. and Elliot said: Everyone wants the complete score, I want a shorter OST! 3 hours ago, BloodBoal said: Yeah, but the difference is that what you want is easily obtainable. Ritalin for his ADD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Shore 83 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 There was a terrific performance of John Williams Star Wars Music last night at the Wonderful World of Disney special with William Ross conducting the orchestra including themes from The Force Awakens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,300 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Yep, that performance of Rey's Theme was delightful, as was the statement of Kylo Ren's fanfare. I'm guessing Ross arranged it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Any video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,510 Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 This is probably embarrasingly late for me to mention, but I just realised that Kylo Ren's motif is derived from the flutes in the Imperial March. But I'm guessing this has been obvious to you all since the OST release, right? (I did a search on the forum but I couldn't find anything on this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,510 Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Compare Kylo Ren's falling motif (4:20 on Jakku Attack) to the flutes in the Imperial March (at precisely 0:48, and later on in the strings) While I was recently listening to TFA OST I remembered what Williams was saying about Kylo Ren's motif being an extension of Darth Vader's theme, and it suddenly clicked. Muad'Dib and Pieter Boelen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Hmmm...interesting. Williams also incorporates the very end of The Imperial March concert track into The Jakku Attack (4:48 - 4:53) Muad'Dib and Pieter Boelen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 6 hours ago, loert423 said: Compare Kylo Ren's falling motif (4:20 on Jakku Attack) to the flutes in the Imperial March (at precisely 0:48, and later on in the strings) While I was recently listening to TFA OST I remembered what Williams was saying about Kylo Ren's motif being an extension of Darth Vader's theme, and it suddenly clicked. I've been trying to hear the similarity you're talking about, but I still don't quite hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,510 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 When I have time tomorrow I'll try to notate and play it, to make it clearer... Basically, the Ren falling motif is a very slow version of the beginning of the third flute phrase (the one that stretches two bars). The pitches are not exactly the same, but the melodic contour definitely is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,037 Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I know what you're taking about. It's not exact, but the similarity is there. Interesting observation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Loert 2,510 Posted February 28, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted February 28, 2016 Just for the record here's a more detailed analysis of what I was talking about (everything has been transposed to D minor for easier comparison): This is the flute line from the middle, quiet section of the Imperial March (LISTEN here, note I used the string line later on but the melody is exactly the same, only transposed down an octave). Now compare the labelled fragments A, B and C with Kylo Ren's main motif as it appears in Jakku Village (LISTEN): and the "falling" motif as it appears in The Abduction (LISTEN): Fragment C seems to appear in the main horn melody (this is what I was talking about in my earlier post), and the trumpets above it also hint at fragment A. Whereas the falling motif looks like it's built out of fragment B entirely. I guess it's interesting that Williams appears to base Kylo Ren's music on the middle, quieter section of the Imperial March, but turning it into loud brass statements. Almost as if Kylo Ren has only grasped a small part of Vader's legacy and turned it into something bigger than it actually is, but never getting close to the main power (i.e. Vader's theme, which only plays when Ren looks at Vader's mask.) Does that even make any sense? Anyway, Rey's theme seems, in turn, to be literally reflecting Kylo Ren's theme (LISTEN): ...by playing the last three notes, then playing the first three notes in reverse (but G# is brought down to G). *gasp* I wonder what this could mean? (LISTEN) Another "link" which at least appears in the concert suite of Rey's theme is the repeating trumpets, which sound almost like the repeating trumpets playing over Kylo Ren's theme in Jakku Village. It might just be a purely musical choice though. Cerebral Cortex, aj_vader, Scarpia and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie 45 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Excellent observations!! I also think the falling semitone and minor third structure has roots in Anakin's Theme itself (especially the B-part of the theme where it has the sequence of three falling lines followed by Vader's motif). Will Tasker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Tasker 21 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 On 2/29/2016 at 9:21 AM, Bowie said: Excellent observations!! I also think the falling semitone and minor third structure has roots in Anakin's Theme itself (especially the B-part of the theme where it has the sequence of three falling lines followed by Vader's motif). I'm not musically educated in the slightestest but I do hear a lot of Johnny "calling back" to a couple of prequel moments, more particularly Kylo Ren's theme being similar to the second half of "Anakin's Dark Deeds". (Sorry if I'm late on this, I haven't been on the board in almost three months!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I also think that kylo ren passage has roots in ROTS. I heard it the 1st time I listened. it's 'anakin's dark deeds', or 'It cant be' final fanfare or the 'battle of the heroes' "fanfary" opening. Now if the ROTS cues also have roots in the same passage of the imperial march it could be completely intentional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 People have talked before about the musical similarities between Anakin's Dark Deeds and Kylo Ren's theme. I don't think the music is intended to be thematically linked. I think it's just JW writing Star Wars bad guy/dark side music. Both share a kind of declarative feeling, very loud, repetitive, forceful, and maybe a bit tragic in terms of association with the two characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I don't think there is an intentional link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 It's intentional. That williams wanted some thematical connection with it, that is debatable. It's one of the several small previous-SW-scores-passage snippets williams threw in the score to create nostalgia and 'this sounds like star wars' feelings in the audience As the 'talk of podracing' quote is. Probably Williams just wanted to create similar music to anakin's fall for kylo ren, not a straight quote. It's in the orchestration, fast trumpent fanfares (tripplets?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said: It's intentional. That williams wanted some thematical connection with it, that is debatable. Wut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 He intentionally wanted to quote previous music. He may or may not had wanted to make thematical connections with that quoted music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Please give a track time of where you feel Anakin's Dark Deeds and Kylo Ren's theme are linked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,792 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Main title an the attack on jakku 4:20-4:34 Anakin vs Obi-wan 0:03-0:22 (thet trumpet fanfare is used several times in the whole piece and the main melody is played by the same instruments as kylo's theme) Battle of the heroes 0:00-0:27 The main melody of battle of the heroes is played by the trumpets makin it similar to the fanfares in Anakin vs obi wan and attack on jakku. It's more a 'mood' rather than note by note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 None of these quotes to me. It's just JW writing music that sounds like JW. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 It's a John Adamsish thing. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Yeah right! Williams can't be compared to some boring classical music guy. Our Maestro wouldn't even set foot in the same room as him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,510 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Exactly. We all know your profile pic is photoshopped, TGP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 On February 28, 2016 at 3:38 PM, loert423 said: Just for the record here's a more detailed analysis of what I was talking about (everything has been transposed to D minor for easier comparison): Thank you very much for that analysis. I'm starting to hear the similarity now. I'm still not entirely sure whether it was intentional by Williams to have that connection, but I'd like to believe that it was, because if it was that is yet another incredibly genius thematic link from Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpvee 805 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Not sure if anyone's posted this...? Pretty neat. http://reddishues.tumblr.com/post/135991843307/a-musical-analysis-of-kylo-rens-inner-struggle-in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,272 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Yeah, there have been a smattering of posts and debates since December about the similarity between Kylo's "tragic" material and the repeating figures in "Anakin's Dark Deeds", including just above in this thread. Whether or not it was an intentional reference by Williams is probably not something that will ever be answered....some people are utterly convinced it was, others wave it off as coincidence and merely Williams' instincts taking him to a similar expression of darkness and tragedy. I got really excited when I first heard it and definitely thought it was intentional, but now I kinda side it with it probably being a lucky accident. But I mean, who knows. I don't think it really matters either way, the similarity's there and it's obviously very apt. I don't agree 100% with every aspect of that guy's analysis but I do think it's a great connection and I always think of it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Incanus 5,713 Posted March 23, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted March 23, 2016 28 minutes ago, mrbellamy said: Yeah, there have been a smattering of posts and debates since December about the similarity between Kylo's "tragic" material and the repeating figures in "Anakin's Dark Deeds", including just above in this thread. Whether or not it was an intentional reference by Williams is probably not something that will ever be answered....some people are utterly convinced it was, others wave it off as coincidence and merely Williams' instincts taking him to a similar expression of darkness and tragedy. I got really excited when I first heard it and definitely thought it was intentional, but now I kinda side it with it probably being a lucky accident. But I mean, who knows. I don't think it really matters either way, the similarity's there and it's obviously very apt. I don't agree 100% with every aspect of that guy's analysis but I do think it's a great connection and I always think of it now. I am prone in the light of Williams's own past comments to think that such coincidences are just that, the composer finding musical solution that reflects to his mind the story and emotion he is trying to achieve. In other words it could as well be an instinctual response as an intellectual one but given Williams' ever forward moving thinking in terms of his own music and that he isn't too prone to looking back, especially considering this is an isolated musical sequence in RotS and nothing as major as say Imperial March or any of his bigger SW defining themes. I am not downplaying Williams' intellect in constructing his music but he has often stated that some of these perceived connections are just happy accidents not intended by the composer. crumbs, artguy360, Taikomochi and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,272 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Yeah, I agree. I mean, he's said that he really just works from memory on these scores so I can imagine that as he was working on Kylo's scenes he had all those hours of Vader/Anakin material just kind of stewing around in his mind at various points. There are quotes that do feel like they would have to be deliberate, like the very distinctive final gesture of Imperial March making a cameo in Attack on Jakku Village. Others like this similarity with Anakin's Dark Deeds seem more subconscious, but it certainly evokes the right feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 That's how the world turns BB! Deal with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Forum really ought to have a dislike button, so BloodBoal could be neg'd into oblivion there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 I think BB is being fatuous here, which is his wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 He's being 50/50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Quite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, Quintus said: He's being 50/50. Bi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 This means something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpvee 805 Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Hot Topic has the soundtrack coming out on vinyl picture discs: http://www.hottopic.com/product/star-wars-the-force-awakens-vinyl-lp-hot-topic-exclusive-pre-release/10590616.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted April 27, 2016 Share Posted April 27, 2016 OK, I am way late to this discussion, I love the album, love the music but it is one of the worst mixed orchestral scores or symphonic album. When they recorded in Abbey Road they relied on the room mikes and you could hear all the color Williams wrote in his music. Here they have turned up the brass to such a degree and almost eliminated the woodwinds in the mix. Why? You lose all that gorgeous color we heard in the other scores and I believe this is why people were originally slapped back into "This is not Williams usual writing or score". If you listen carefully you can hear the woodwind flourishes and stabs and color, but it's so far back in the mix that it's hardly audible. Were they trying to go for a more modern sound? And by modern I mean incredibly boring monotone works that the other composers seem to only be able to deliver these days. Thankfully this is saved by Williams writing. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 The OST? I think it's great. The sound is much drier than the prequel OSTs and this score is definitely very brassy but it sounds great to me. I don't have any trouble hearing the woodwinds. Everything sounds very distinct. Edit: I don't recall the initial reaction being people thinking TFA didn't sound like JW. Maybe the initial reception was more negative than it is now, but I don't think people found the score to be un-JW in sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted April 28, 2016 Author Share Posted April 28, 2016 I love the recording quality, though I'm no audiophile. It sounds crystal clear and the brass has real oomph. Far less reverb-heavy and muddy than Shawn Murphy's usual output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,037 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 This recording sounds pretty good to me, for the most part. Nice clarity and punch, even if the woodwinds do get buried a bit in the louder passages. What really annoys me about this recording is the trumpets, though - I don't know if the fault lies with the writing, the room, the performers, Williams' direction, or some combination of all the above, but the trumpets never really "sing" the way I want them to. You never get that brilliant, heroic tone that's found throughout the other Star Wars scores (among many other great recordings). This problem isn't unique to this score, though - it started with KOTCS's tepid trumpets and hasn't gotten much better since. It's a pity...Williams used to get some really wonderful trumpet performances, even on scores when he didn't have the LSO or Maurice Murphy. Otherwise, TFA sounds pretty good to me, if a little "small" at times. But TPM remains the gold standard for how a Star Wars score should be recorded and mixed, as far as I'm concerned. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,281 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 8 minutes ago, Datameister said: But TPM remains the gold standard for how a Star Wars score should be recorded and mixed, as far as I'm concerned. Is there a huge difference between how TPM was recorded and mixed, and AOTC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,037 Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 I think TPM sounds a little better, although I have a tough time putting my finger on just what changed. Both sound very good. I think TPM is perhaps a little wetter, achieving a wonderfully "big" sounds but without losing clarity. The horns also have a rather different sound in AOTC - not bad, but different, and I do prefer the way they sound in TPM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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