The Force Awakens The Force Awakens Disney Records OST

[DominicCobb 194]

1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

After much consideration, I have come to the decision that I prefer the opening main title trumpet blast in the Force Awakens recording to the Phantom Menace recording.

 

I know you all were waiting on this decision, and I hope you aren't too disappointed.  To my ears the trumpets sound brighter and crisper, and I just prefer that.

 

I completely agree.

 

Though I don't know if that comes from being exhausted of the TPM recording (used in all the prequels and every video game, audiobook, you name it from 1999-present).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's good!

[Bilbo 3,709]

The TFA main title is the worst part of the score! 

 

No power at all! Sounds like one of those bad Prague Philharmonic jobs!

[Chen G. 3,949]

Its a score lacking in power in general. It just isn't the London Symphony Orchestra (or the London Voices) and it shows. Sadly, they seem to be going forward with the same arrangement.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I disagree!

[Chen G. 3,949]

It's not that I don't like it or something like that. It's just that it doesn't have same punch.

 

A lot has been said on the different kind of horns and how they give the score a darker edge and that's true. But they also don't have the same punch. It's also a smaller Section (6.4.4.1 of memory serves me well).

 

In and of itself it would be all fine and well, but big brass is a trademark of Star Wars and of John Williams in general.

 

On album I could live with it but in the film, couple that with Abrams editing and mixing choices and you'd be hard pressed to find a moment where the music overpowers the film and hits the audience over the head, as it's wont to do in Star Wars.

 

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I just really like the brass sound in TFA.  I'm talking performance and recording quality.  Like I said above, they're bright, warm, and crisp sounding to my ears.

 

I am of course not disparaging the earlier scores at all.

[crumbs 14,306]

Well one thing is clear, either Murphy or Williams heard something in the TFA version they wanted another go at.

 

They were happy to keep the TPM recording for the remaining prequels (unless they had no choice in the matter... unlikely).

[Chen G. 3,949]

It may as well be that the more spread out recording schedule makes it easier to spend time on re-recording such parts of the score, in a way that the prequels' schedules did not allow to, at least not with ease.

 

It's also worth noting that among the prequels various misgivings, they were also the longest entries. Surely that doesn't help with the recording schedule.

 

17 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I just really like the brass sound in TFA.  I'm talking performance and recording quality.  Like I said above, they're bright, warm, and crisp sounding to my ears.

 

I am of course not disparaging the earlier scores at all.

 

Far be it from me to hamper another׳s enjoyment of the score. I don't really have an issue with the album, it's more the cinematic use of the score.

 

The ending is great, though. If the next score picks it up from there I'd be great.

[Bilbo 3,709]

48 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I disagree!

 

Yeah well you're wrong! 

[crumbs 14,306]

 

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

The ending is great, though. If the next score picks it up from there I'd be great.

 

Absolutely. A lot of TFA feels a bit stop-start for most of its runtime, but it all works quite fluidly in the final act (as if John had finally rediscovered his rhythm writing in the Star Wars 'mode'). It would be interesting to read a chronological list of which cues he wrote in what order.

 

Whether Jedi Steps was written early or late in the process is sadly unknown but it's the most quintessential John Williams Star Wars moment in the score, IMO.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Now that's truly interesting!

 

Williams writing process for these films is different. He probably sees some footage and composes some music. Sees more footage a few months later and writes some more.

 

Could that lead to more fragmented storytelling? Its probably why Doug called some of the gestures "thematic near-misses" and also why he resorts more to using leitmotifs romantically instead of thematically.

[crumbs 14,306]

Well the process changed on TLJ again. Williams waited until the film was assembled then spotted it with Rian Johnson in complete form.

 

He'll be back to the haphazard TFA process for IX though, sadly.

[Chen G. 3,949]

I dunno, wasn't the scoring process even more spread-out on this latest film? It's not like Williams spent the entire time between the sessions composing for the film.

 

A lot of the problem comes more from the filmmakers. The contemporary demand for pace just doesn't allow for those silent moments where Williams' music used to soar. It's also the evolution of Williams' style which is less "intrusive" of the film.

 

I miss intrusive scores!

[mrbellamy 6,278]

Yeah, the only disappointment I have with TFA is sometimes it doesn't feel like he's making the most of every moment in the underscore. The highlights are as good as what you would expect from Williams and the musical narrative is elegant and thoughtful as always, but it's not quite the embarrassment of riches of his best scores, just in terms of random incidental highlights and one-off melodic material. He seems a little more content to just let a scene run every now and then with a little ostinato or a few long chords, when in the past he might have made more distinctive choices more often, and some of the tunes are a little more rote than I expect from him. Like for example the end of "Finn's Confession" when they're walking up to Maz's cantina, or Finn and Poe reuniting on the base. Lovely orchestrations but not much melodically. I can sorta hear something better lurking in there. 

 

I dunno if that's age, Abrams's process, the specifics of the film, whatever. Maybe his fount of inspiration simply isn't quite as endless and it only comes out with the biggest, most exciting moments, or maybe I'm just greedy. I'm hoping TLJ ups the ante somewhat, but I'm sure we'll be getting some great moments regardless.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Disco Stu 15,495]

3 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

I'm sure Luke's Death will be the most amazing cue in this new trilogy! A choral rendition of the Star Wars main theme!

 

You see, you say this as a joke.  But if they did kill off Luke, I bet Williams would write an amazing, hair-raising cue.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Nah, he'll just use Leia's theme to "represent Rey and Finn's reaction to leaving Luke behind." 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Did JWFan decide "Torn Apart" isn't good actually?  I thought everybody liked that cue.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Because it had the "Bloodboal being silly" stamp?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Chen G. 3,949]

I don't think it would happen just now. It's too ballsy and we know ms. Kennedy ain't having any of that.

 

I think The Last Jedi will draw the darkness that it's so set on delivering, more on the premise of Luke becoming indifferent. It might be enough for Williams to write and entirely new theme for him, but I doubt it.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

"miss Kennedy"?

 

[Bilbo 3,709]

7 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Because it had the "Bloodboal being silly" stamp?

 

There are times when he isn't being silly?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Only when he's talking about Miyazaki or silent film music.  At all other times he is silly.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Well, it's a pretty silly topic (but fun to talk about!)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just now, BloodBoal said:

 

And Zelda music!

 

Yes, it seems you are quite serious when discussing almost any topic except...

 

JOHN WILLIAMS

 

[Bilbo 3,709]

He doesn't even go here!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

It feels like an epiphany.  The secret hiding in plain sight.  Bloodboal doesn't like John Williams!

 

It's the twist at the end of the movie.  There's a montage of all the times he gave himself away and I didn't see it.

[Bilbo 3,709]

We just got M Night ShameAboutTheLastOne'd!!!

[DominicCobb 194]

7 hours ago, crumbs said:

Well one thing is clear, either Murphy or Williams heard something in the TFA version they wanted another go at.

 

They were happy to keep the TPM recording for the remaining prequels (unless they had no choice in the matter... unlikely).

 

Really? 

 

Do you think they weren't happy with the recording used for the original film (probably the most perfect one there's been) and that's why they did a new one for Empire and Jedi? 

 

I always thought reusing the TPM recording for AOTC and ROTS was just saving time and/or being lazy. Either way, a disappointing aspect of both scores.

[mrbellamy 6,278]

I think for TLJ they probably re-recorded it mostly because Johnson would have wanted the chance to hear them play it.

[Faleel 5,346]

And if the sound of TLJ is different than that of TFA they would want the MT to match.

[crumbs 14,306]

6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I think The Last Jedi will draw the darkness that it's so set on delivering, more on the premise of Luke becoming indifferent. It might be enough for Williams to write and entirely new theme for him, but I doubt it.

 

Williams could approach Luke quite a few ways, which makes it really exciting. Luke's Theme is one of the few SW themes in major, and if most of his scenes are solemn and dour then it'll be interesting to see how much he can actually use that theme. He might prefer the Force Theme.

 

Might he deconstruct Luke's Theme and only present it in fragments, representing that Luke isn't the character we remember? And as the film progresses and Rey brings him back, gradually his theme becomes more 'complete', exploding in its fullest glory by the climax?

 

Or could he avoid Luke's Theme altogether (barring the opening and closing) and assign something else, like Jedi Steps, as his new theme?

 

And all the while developing Rey's musical journey in tandem. I think there'll be something very special for their scenes (given the religioso, mystical element to their island) and he will somehow link their two identities into something new & combined -- which will only mature by the third act when (presumably) shit goes down between the two.

[Tom 4,651]

Or, Williams will go with a non-thematic approach focusing solely on the celeste and harp.   

[crumbs 14,306]

Exactly, he could go quite dissonant. I definitely foresee harp being an important voice, probably for Rey.

 

Overall dissonance is probably the least likely option but who knows what tone Johnson has sought.

 

36 minutes ago, Fal said:

And if the sound of TLJ is different than that of TFA they would want the MT to match.

 

Yes, this. Williams and Murphy have probably made adjustments to the orchestra, be it musicians, microphones, seating arrangements or numbers per section.

 

They probably want to ensure the Main Title "sits" with the rest of the score, if it has a slightly different recording setup or whatever. They might be going less dry this time, pulling back on the brass (as the score might be more intimate).

[mrbellamy 6,278]

2 hours ago, crumbs said:

Williams could approach Luke quite a few ways, which makes it really exciting. Luke's Theme is one of the few SW themes in major, and if most of his scenes are solemn and dour then it'll be interesting to see how much he can actually use that theme. He might prefer the Force Theme.

 

He's done it in minor before, like at the beginning of "Yoda and the Force" and probably others I can't recall at the moment. That could be cool if he did some of that. I actually do hope that Luke's theme stays his theme. Even if he also gets something new, I'd like at least a few clear associations with him. It'd be kinda sad in a way if it's not ever used as his theme. I know that it's also become the de facto "Star Wars" theme but I like that it's still both. I think I'd prefer this score to reclaim it for Luke instead of broadening it further.

[crumbs 14,306]

The final minute of Jedi Steps and Finale is basically Williams saying, "this is where I'm heading from here," with those 3 key themes (Rey's, Luke's and the Force).

 

He presents Luke's theme quite warmly there, unlike his closing statements of the Imperial March at the end of the credits in TPM and AOTC. I guess he's optimistic about where Luke's character goes from here (but who knows if he expected what Rian did).

 

Highly doubt he'll drop the theme, he's definitely cognisant that it's actually Luke's theme (which was clear from the final cue of ROTS).

[Nick Parker 3,040]

17 minutes ago, crumbs said:

He presents Luke's theme quite warmly there, unlike his closing statements of the Imperial March at the end of the credits in TPM and AOTC. I guess he's optimistic about where Luke's character goes from here (but who knows if he expected what Rian did).

 

 

To me it seemed more of a cute "Star Wars is back" sprinkle than a statement on Luke. In the concert version it's out of there, yeah?

[crumbs 14,306]

Well maybe, but he kept hinting at Anakin's downfall at the end of prequel credits, so it seems like something he'd continue.

[mrbellamy 6,278]

11 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

To me it seemed more of a cute "Star Wars is back" sprinkle than a statement on Luke. In the concert version it's out of there, yeah?

 

He basically gives two options for the concert ending, one keeps the original OST version and yeah the other is a non-thematic fanfare thing.

[Chen G. 3,949]

3 hours ago, crumbs said:

Well maybe, but he kept hinting at Anakin's downfall at the end of prequel credits, so it seems like something he'd continue.

 

I don't think he knows that much of where this trilogy is headed, as he knew in the prequel trilogy. It's just not how he works.

 

Even the path of the filmmakers isn't clear. Rian Johnson said he had full artistic freedom with the writing and that comes as no surprise as it is true for most Hollywood trilogies. 

 

7 hours ago, crumbs said:

Yes, this. Williams and Murphy have probably made adjustments to the orchestra, be it musicians, microphones, seating arrangements or numbers per section.

 

From the few pictures of the recording sessions that have surfaced, it seems he is keeping the same 85-piece orchestra. We still don't know if the Hollywood Chorale is involved.

[crumbs 14,306]

It's no confirmation but we've seen scattered credits on IMDB with male and female vocalists.

 

Choir has been part of his Star Wars toolkit to varying degrees in every score since TESB, no reason to think it won't be again.

 

If nothing else he's clearly established it as a flavour for Snoke, who will probably take on a more significant (and thematic) role in TLJ's score.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Yes, but I doubt we'll see a large SATB choir involved. It's too evocative of the style of the prequels. The choir will probably just be there for texture.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

And I don't think any Star Wars movie will again go for that grand, tragic operatic tone that was so specific to the prequels.

 

I'm not saying this as a negative.  I think it's fine that the prequels will always and forever have their own specific flavor.

[crumbs 14,306]

And that flavour was, "Fuck, I have to do all the hard work because George can't make movies."

[Disco Stu 15,495]

No, the original trilogy were grand adventure romps with some operatic overtones.  George wanted a more theatrical (some, including myself, would say turgid) tone for the prequels and Williams provided.

 

The sequel trilogy is clearly taking it back more towards positive adventure romp.  So Williams provides what is needed for the film!