Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 When Marty changes the future, goes back to 1985 and arrives at the Twin Pines Mall (or was it Lone Pine Mall at that point?), he witnesses the Doc being shot by the Libyans and sees "himself" going back to 1955. Or so we presume. Now. this is a different Marty. A Marty that grew up with a wealthy successful family and had a shitty Toyota rust bucket. Different life experiences = different man? Where the hell does he go? As far as we know, our Marty is unaware of the changes to the timeline, so it's not like he received new memories. They're different Martys, yeah? What happens to the other one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 It really doesn't make any sense.Zemeckis needed Nolan and Kip Thorne to give the script a once over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 "There are two of me here, and there are two of you here". "The other me is the Doctor Brown from 1955, helps the other you get back to 1985".Ya it is a bit weird that Marty didn't have any new memories of the different life...especially after he got back to 1985 and saw things were different. BTW it was Lone Pine Mall since he had killed one of Peabody's pine trees with the DeLorean when escaping from barn. "You space bastard you killed my pine!" In a way I kind wish it was like the movie Frequency where something was changed from the past and Jim Caviezel's character had memories of both events. Just one of the few plot holes for Back To The Future movies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 I think you have to watch these movies with your teen heart... and brain ;I love this series and will always , don't ask yourself too many questions. Hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Back to the Future makes some assumptions about traveling into the future and crossing your own timeline that are seriously compromised in Part II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,348 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Back to the Future makes some assumptions about traveling into the future and crossing your own timeline that are seriously compromised in Part II. Please elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 I intend to, when I'm in front of a keyboard at home, not on a mobile not at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,348 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 You'll never do it, like some other stories that were promised bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,278 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Obviously it's things like this that make it much more a fantasy trilogy than sci-fi. It's magic vaguely disguised as science.I don't mean that disparagingly, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,348 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 They're action comedies. Not serious scifi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,278 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Yeah. The easy answer is they were never meant to hold up under questioning, though of course it's brilliant fun trying to wrap your head around its logic, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 bollemanneke and mstrox 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,278 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 I think he did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Back to the Future makes some assumptions about traveling into the future and crossing your own timeline that are seriously compromised in Part II.Please elaborate?First of all, I realize that the Back to Future are romantic action comedies that use science fiction elements to advance the plot. That doesn't excuse it from, ahem, serious sci-fi discussion. Einstein is the world's first time traveler. Doc tells us that. Einstein disappears from the prime timeline and reappears one minute later. There is no copy of Einstein waiting for him one minute away when he catches up to the timeline. This is important. Marty travels into the past, before he is born. There is no other Marty to interact with. By interacting with his parents and Biff, the effects will be for the better. Marty returns to the future a few minutes before his original departure, giving him a chance to observe himself before his time travel. He doesn't interfere with himself so no paradox occurs; had he succeeded in warning Doc in 1985, a paradox would have occurred, but his note saved Doc. A new and improved 1985 has formed around Marty, one he directly stimulated but doesn't remember because he didn't grow up in it. He only has his original childhood memories, as Elliot points out. The movie ends with Doc, Marty, and Jennifer on their way to the future. Back to the Future Part II plays fast and loose with the logic and rules established in the first movie in order to create a complex and intelligent seeming sequel. I will explain its contradictions. Doc, Marty, and Jennifer arrive in a 2015 where they see and interact with the future versions of themselves (not Doc). While the paradoxes do not occur, the future versions should not exist. When Marty and Jennifer disappear from the improved 1985, they should not appear in the future. History should record that they vanished thirty years before reappearing in 2015. Remember that Einstein wasn't copied after only one minute. Back to the Future Part II requires a big assumption: in order for Marty and Jennifer to visit their future selves, this means they also returned to the past (present) in order to live a life to create the eventual future. This basically makes a copy of each character. I admit the plot requires this massive assumption so we have a future McFly family, kids house, job, pizza, George, fax, etc. When you go to the past, you go to somewhere you may never have never existed so there's no problem, but if you go to your own future, you get to see and interact with yourself as if you never time traveled, not just fell off the face of the earth. OK, I can accept that.After Marty interacts with his parents in 1955, he travels to an improved 1985.The improvements started when he was in the past but really took between his departure from the past and his return to the future. That's okay. But look at Biff's journey. He leaves the original 2015 and goes to 1955. He is alive in the younger year and is adept enough to avoid a paradox, but is able to return to the original 2015. He should not have been able to do so. He should have immediately arrived in the altered future instigated by having the almanac. Just like Marty in the first movie. Instead, we have to assume that the presence of Doc and the younger version of Marty, time travelers, in 2015 create a strong link to the DeLorean that pulls it to them. They keep 2015 intact around them until they time travel and experience the changes. And indeed, Biff fades after stepping out of the DeLorean, leaving the cane piece, so this is the magical assumption that the sequel makes. That's the major contradiction with Part II. Part III has Doc's lie. In the original film, Marty asks Doc if the DeLorean runs on unleaded. Doc replies he needs something with a little more kick: plutonium. Cool, radioactive is cool. Fission in the first film gives rise to Mr. Fusion in the sequel. But in Part III, an arrow punctures the gas tank. But we still have fusion, right? We can still fly? No. Apparently the plutonium only powered the time circuits. He still needs gas to get the car up to 88 mph. Dammit Doc, get your shit straight. bollemanneke and Gruesome Son of a Bitch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,348 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Ok, obviously the Biff paradox is well known one. But shit. I never thought about how going into the future means you shouldn't be there. Heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 That's how time traveling into the future works in other science fiction, like Doctor Who, Star Trek, etc. Back to the Future 2 must be different or there is no movie. And since Doc clearly states there's a problem with Marty and Jennifer's kids, they have to be in the future to see them. The whole stepping out of history problem would actually prevent you from ever seeing the best possible future: one you're a part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,348 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Yea, never thought of it that way before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 What other stories, plural, do I owe you? Aside from popping the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 Timeline! This is no time to argue about time! We don't have the time! What was I saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Rich's theories are certainly interesting.But wouldn't the future Marty excist simply mean that 1985 Marty went to the future and came back to 1985? What seems more like an error is that future Marty McFly seems to have no memory of himself traveling to 2015 posing as his own son.But yeah the trilogy plays fast and loose with time travel theories, but then again pretty much every movie or TV show that deals with time travel does. Many of them won't work if they adhere to strict temporal theory.Skynet was destroyed in T2, so Terminators never existed, yet a Terminator helped destroy Skynet....impossible.There are dozens of dcamplyof film makers having to fudge science for the film to make sense. The BTTF trilogy is no worse then any other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,348 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Well, they were hamstrung by the ending of Film 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 BTTF was never supposed to have a sequel, and the ending was just put in as a fun coda.This was before every single film was seen as the first part in a potential cinematic universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 The dark ages...Thank god these days are long gone! bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Marvel would have handled BTTF much differently! Zemeckis, Gale and Amblin are fools! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,192 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Obviously it's things like this that make it much more a fantasy trilogy than sci-fi. It's magic vaguely disguised as science. Is it time to quote Arthur C. Clarke yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Just saw a Cracked post that declares this plot hole with Back to Future. Lightning struck the Hill Valley clock tower at 10:04 pm on November 12, 1955. But lightning is a split second event. The clock tower has no second hand. There's a 59 second margin of error for Marty to get the time right. D'oh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 Precisely 10:04 pm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 You can't prove that though. Unless there were witnesses who saw the bolt of lightning hit at the same time as their own atomic calibrated watches, and could see both together. The minute could have been half over but the minute hand hadn't moved yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 The film doesn't discount that there might have been witnesses with atomic clocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,385 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Obviously: Wibbly wobbly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Timey wimey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,220 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 You can't prove that though. Unless there were witnesses... Doc Brown was a witness who could report the exact time of the strike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Yes! Yes!It all makes sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Well, there really was only a split-second margin for Marty to hit the wire.And remember how Doc set an alarm clock? "The minute this alarm goes off, you hit the gas!"Never mind that this doesn't take into account any variations in acceleration that could cause Marty to miss his mark, the car actually stalls the moment the alarm goes off! Marty doesn't drive off until a few moments later. So either he broke the DeLorean's acceleration record, or Doc miscalculated the moment the alarm should have gone off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Its just a movie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 That's what Lucas said when he was making the prequels! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,220 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I always assumed that Marty had done some ad hoc spur of the moment mental calculations and adjusted his acceleration accordingly to compensate for the delay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I like how Marty drives the DeLorean into the movie theater upon returning to 1985, but Doc's concerned about driving into Biff's car. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 DeLorean's were very shabbily and poorly made cars from Northern Ireland. The possibility of it being able to do 88 miles per hour without breaking down is improbable!It doesnt make any sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 DeLorean's were very shabbily and poorly made cars from Northern Ireland. The possibility of it being able to do 88 miles per hour without breaking down is improbable!It doesnt make any sense!Uh DeLorean (DMC) is an American made car not Northern Ireland, not sure where the fuck you got that info from.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeLorean_Motor_Company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,220 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Uh DeLorean (DMC) is an American made car not Northern Ireland, not sure where the fuck you got that info from. The DeLoreans were indeed made in Northern Ireland. It says so in the article you linked to: Officially known as DMCL (DeLorean Motor Cars, Ltd.), the facility was located in Dunmurry, a suburb of Belfast Koray Savas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Excellent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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