The Force Awakens final trailer MUSIC discussion

[King Mark 3,626]

I'm not a big fan of the teaser 2 music but I did like that brass chorale interlude that played over Vader's helmet.

yeah, now that I think about it, that wasn't Williams, just more of these trailer composers work

Only the first teaser was Williams

[skyy38 21]

I'm not worried about the score in the film. They won't have tried to beef it up. But the marketing team wants to get people pumped to spend their money, and for better or worse, this style of music does have that effect on a lot of people.

Usually it's for *worse*......

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Because it's more realistic and relatable.

[Datameister 2,037]

I have no clue about how Rey will perform, whether she'll be a charismatic lead or plain annoying.

But BB-8 will be awesome!

Daisy Ridley and John Boyega both have some intangible quality that makes me really like them. I've been hoping for really enjoyable performances from both of them. This trailer has definitely tempered my optimism a bit, but then again, if I remember correctly, we don't actually SEE them talking. Sometimes a performance seems a lot stronger when accompanied by the facial expressions, mannerisms, and body language of the actor. So who knows.

Mostly I'm just ready to see the film already so I can have a definite opinion on it, one way or the other!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Chris Pine made for an alright Kirk, so I've got my fingers crossed for this new pair.

[skyy38 21]

uh oh...nothing sounds like Williams

Yeah. That's what I came here to say. The stylistic departure of the cinematography is pretty shocking as well. It would help to accept this if it wasn't a saga Episode but a spinoff, because it doesn't seem to fit in.

Not just in terms of the Camera Work but also the fact that CGI is being used to stuff MORE "stuff" than had ever been seen in ANY previous STAR WARS movie before it.

A "bullet zoom" on the Falcon is just TOO modern. Ditto for the lens flares.

And this trailer music sounds way too much like Zimmer..........

I liked the slow statement of the SW theme at the end. But none of this strikes me as Williams' work.

Neither did WAR OF THE WORLDS.

I ruled out Williams right from the start when they do that random piano bullshit that's in every modern trailer.

"Random Piano Bullshit?"

Please explain.

Because I'm still deaf from listening to the random " More Percussion, More Percussion, Turn it the f*ck UP" bullshit.

They're holding it back. We haven't heard shit.

You may be right!

[Datameister 2,037]

Chris Pine made for an alright Kirk, so I've got my fingers crossed for this new pair.

Yeah, Chris Pine was perfect for what they were trying to do with Trek.

God, I really do want this movie to be good.

[skyy38 21]

I wasn't quite so enamored with the "spin" as some.

The good old days:

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

Well, I think they really mangled the force theme, but I guess Han Solo and the Princess is such a great theme it's destroy proof

I'm starting to worry they might alter Williams final score

The only way Abrams would mess the score would be through just editing it to conform with the film (and I feel that the long scoring and recording process for this film should avoid much of that). Abrams seems to have a lot of respect and admiration for the guy and has said nothing but good things about working with him on this film. There's no way he'd dare actually alter the sound of his score, especially not to make it sound more "epic" if that's what you were implying.

I worry about that. Even Spielberg isn't averse to that.

Williams wrote one of his most complex, detailed and dense scores for Tintin. The score is thick with counterpoint, with sometimes multiple themes running together or in quick succession, very fast tempo, quick changes, this almost nauseous rushing feeling of flying through cascading musical tapestries. I think it was all in an attempt to match the fast pace of the action scenes... a bit like 'mickey-mousing'.

But the picture was tinkered with so much in post in terms of the edit that Williams music was often hacked to pieces even in Tintin.

I hope that is not what happens.

Clemensen claims that while the PT scores are all masterworks, they are hacked to death within the movie with constant editing and re-placements and looping.

I sometimes feel the modern action movies are too hectic in their style of random editing to really give Williams a chance to shine. More classically styled dramas with patient editing is where his music can bloom in the movie and not just on album. I think his score for War Horse really popped in the cinema. Made me cheer at the big theme statements. In that regard, Bridge of Spies might have been a great assignment for him. There are many silent sequences with just some sound effects where I thought Williams could really showcase his music.

Eitherways excited for this score. And what new material Williams has written.

[skyy38 21]

As bland as the overamplified and overreverbed beginning in the piano sounds by itself, I quite like that it's the chord progression from Han and Leia... I didn't notice it right now,but by the time the theme starts I had a real 'shock of recognition' moment

The overall trailerization of the themes is a pity, yes... I guess nowadays that's hard to avoid, though I'd have hoped Star Wars would be more immune to this than other trailers.

It's not the "trailerization" of the themes-it's the Orchestra and the Production of this.

Just for those of you still living under a rock, THIS STAR WARS movie is NOT done by the famed London Symphony Orchestra.

Also, TEN YEARS since the last STAR WARS movie and, once again, things have changed.

When THE PHANTOM MENACE was released, Lucas probably thought he could pick up where he left off-16 years later, as far as VFX were concerned.

So SORRY!!!

THE MATRIX VFX was now the "New Kid On The Block!"

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

They're holding it back. We haven't heard shit.

Yeah, but that's a good thing in my book. I'd rather hear the score first in one sitting than have it drip-fed to me over time through multiple batches of audio samples, music videos, and 30 minute previews.

[skyy38 21]

My theory is that Williams chose what themes to use and where -and probably edited a rough version, like the Oscars medley- and handed it over to someone else to do it.

And my theory is that Williams had nothing to do with this trailer at all. He probably didn't even watch it yet. You're laying way too much power in the hands of the composer. Williams is not the producer or the director of this. He doesn't call the shots. I doubt they even asked for his opinion about this trailer. This is the marketing department at work, mostly. They frankly don't even care who does the music or how it was done, as long as they think it works.

Got news for you.

The "Marketing Department" doesn't know SHIT about music.

I'm a musician and I don't know SHIT about marketing.

Feel free to comment. But please maintain some perspective.

Like you said, its only a trailer. It's a disposable item.

The hell, you say-

Obviously he didn't do this final product, no. He could have done the new arrangement of Han&Leia and the Force Theme, though, before someone else took it and further altered-it and trailer-ized it.

If the Force Theme was indeed a "new arrangement" then you would hear different parts than you ever did before, in the Force Theme.

The word you are looking for is "quote".

Not at all to join the griping about the music in the trailer, I thought it was effective, but isn't it a little laughable that someone worked on the "second half" of a fucking trailer? Ye gods. Talk about composing by committee.

Trailer music usually isn't about composing, it's essentially cutting and pasting.

But if you don't have something to "cut and paste" with ( ie, the composition) then WHAT do you have?

NOTHING!!!!!!!

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Trailer music is extremely important!

[skyy38 21]

The one-key-at-a-time piano from 0:08-0:48? Hmm probably not, but isn't that right out of the last teaser?

I'm sorry, i just don't think anything from the trailer comes directly from Williams. Ive been listening to him for a few decades now and I don't hear it.

For once, Stef might be right. This seems tailored by a trailer house or three.

I can write my OWN trailer music well enough, thank you very much!

[Datameister 2,037]

I sometimes feel the modern action movies are too hectic in their style of random editing to really give Williams a chance to shine. More classically styled dramas with patient editing is where his music can bloom in the movie and not just on album.

It's true. But then again, some of Williams' greatest writing has come from scenes in which the music is allowed to become more structured and ambitious than the timing of the film alone would dictate. When a composer can discover (or create!) a larger underlying structure in the scene, rather than simply being a slave to every possible sync point, some pretty special things can happen.

I like to think that the John Williams of the 70s/80s could have crafted non-mickey-mousy musical setpieces for most of the over-busy action sequences Hollywood loves to churn out these days.

[filmmusic 1,823]

I'm not worried about the score in the film. They won't have tried to beef it up. But the marketing team wants to get people pumped to spend their money, and for better or worse, this style of music does have that effect on a lot of people.

Well, I'm not worried because I'm not so much interested in the film so I haven't any high hopes or expectations.

As I've said numerous times the 3 first Star Wars films and their scores, are enough for me.

I don't need 2 more hours of Star Wars music added to the existing 12 hours!

But I do think that the score won't be exactly as the original ones and will have some "modern" touches just like the pirates theme in Tintin!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So basically John Williams had nothing to do with it.

The marketing arm of Disney hired random music houses to create modern-trailer-sounding music out of Williams themes.

Did anyone ever doubt this?

Kind of shocking that even on JWfan people can't hear the difference between music written by John Williams and John Williams' music adapted and arranged by someone else.

Chris Pine made for an alright Kirk, so I've got my fingers crossed for this new pair.

Kirk was played by William Shatner, you made an error. Please correct!

[Arpy 4,145]

The one-key-at-a-time piano from 0:08-0:48? Hmm probably not, but isn't that right out of the last teaser?

I'm sorry, i just don't think anything from the trailer comes directly from Williams. Ive been listening to him for a few decades now and I don't hear it.

For once, Stef might be right. This seems tailored by a trailer house or three.

I can write my OWN trailer music well enough, thank you very much!

WTF? Was the trailer made using Microsoft Powepoint?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Good ol' Windows Movie Maker!

[Arpy 4,145]

Kirk was played by Jeff Bridges in a MO-CAP suit! Get it right!

[Balahkay 627]

Someone oughta redo the music in the trailer using music from the OT. Although, I think music from the PT would be more appropriate for some parts.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Chris Pine made for an alright Kirk, so I've got my fingers crossed for this new pair.

Kirk was played by William Shatner, you made an error. Please correct!

Who?

[Simon R. 10]

My theory is that Williams chose what themes to use and where -and probably edited a rough version, like the Oscars medley- and handed it over to someone else to do it.

And my theory is that Williams had nothing to do with this trailer at all. He probably didn't even watch it yet. You're laying way too much power in the hands of the composer. Williams is not the producer or the director of this. He doesn't call the shots. I doubt they even asked for his opinion about this trailer. This is the marketing department at work, mostly. They frankly don't even care who does the music or how it was done, as long as they think it works.

Got news for you.

The "Marketing Department" doesn't know SHIT about music.

I'm a musician and I don't know SHIT about marketing.

Well we agree then? Isn't that what I basically said? Some people there might know about music, but it is just a small piece in their "product" that they can sculp, alter as they see fit - it's the combined result and how they see it creating the biggest buzz, biggest impact that matters. If they think this was they way to go, so be it. My point is, someone like Williams has nothing to do or no power regarding marketing on a movie he composes the music for. Just trying to make people see this through corporate/PR eyes instead of JW fan ones...

[TownerFan 4,983]

Teaser 2 was anything but. It sounded nothing like him outside of the quotes of iconic existing music from the OT, which still didn't sound right. There was no question that the first teaser was him and that the newest trailer was certainly not him. I don't understand why we're still debating his involvement with the second one.

Listening carefully to the second teaser, my guess is that it's a mixture of tinkered/altered bits of recordings from the OT (or maybe even purposefully re-recorded) and original music done by someone else used as connective tissue.

[King Mark 3,626]

Sounds re-recorded but probably not by Williams

[Faleel 5,340]

I still maintain that the music in the second teaster sounds like it was recorded in the same place as the Williams music in the first teaser.

[Balahkay 627]

The second teaser features re-recorded music of the OT cues. In any case, I thought it was confirmed Williams was involved with the second teaser?

[Will 2,215]

The second teaser features re-recorded music of the OT cues. In any case, I thought it was confirmed Williams was involved with the second teaser?

Williams had at least some involvement with the second teaser, according to this article (http://www.afm.org/im/john-williams):

Williams tackled earlier recordings for both trailers, with the second trailer being released several weeks ago to add to the mounting excitement around Star Wars VII.

Trumpet player Jon Lewis is a member of the freelance orchestra, and he says the experience is off to an incredible start with the recording of the two trailers.

Stephen Erdody, Williams’ principal cellist for the last 16 years, agrees, adding that the working process with Wiliams is always efficient and rewarding. “John is an outstanding musician, an amazing orchestrator, and he has the best ears in the business,” Erdody enthuses. “The two trailer sessions were each three hours long, and all of us take great pride in our speed of recording and our ability to adjust and make changes to improve the final product as quickly as possible.”

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I find it unbelievable that he composed the new material in that trailer, but what do I know.

[Henry B 50]

Is it possible that Williams was simply unavailable to score Trailer #3 because of his recent medical issues? We all seem to be assuming that it was a marketing decision not to hire him.

[skyy38 21]

Good ol' Windows Movie Maker!

Yes it WAS Movie Maker.

The music and copy was mine.....

Is it possible that Williams was simply unavailable to score Trailer #3 because of his recent medical issues? We all seem to be assuming that it was a marketing decision not to hire him.

Recent "Issues" as of WHEN?

RECENT we hear of.....

but music for movie is done FAR in advance!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Needs more drums.

[Henry B 50]

Skyy, for the same reasons that he was unable to score "Bridge of Spies" and had to turn over conducting duties on TFA to William Ross. I don't know anything specifically. I'm just wondering if it's a possibility.

[Muad'Dib 1,801]

Why do you keep SCREAMING between SENTENCES?

[Arpy 4,145]

Why do you keep SCREAMING between SENTENCES?

When the film's out and the score too, who's gonna care about the trailer music?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Why do you keep SCREAMING between SENTENCES?

Why does THAT bother YOU?

[Tallguy 3,379]

Because it's EASIER than finding ITALICS. You know, for EMphasis.

[Muad'Dib 1,801]

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Seriously, is there a way to block him? I've never even considered using such a feature on JWFan, but I'm desperately searching.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Seriously, is there a way to block him? I've never even considered using such a feature on JWFan, but I'm desperately searching.

Same here. I can only use so many faces.

[Jay 37,317]

Yes you can block any member except the mod staff. You just go to their profile page I think, or its somewhere in your own settings.

[Trent B 337]

My settings > "Ignore Preferences" then you'll be able to add who you want to the ignore list.

[Jay 37,317]

Of course, you'll still see people's replies to a blocked member's posts, which could include a quote of something he posted

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I couldn't possibly block him. I can't bear to censor anyone.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I can and I did.

[King Mark 3,626]

I never blocked anyone and don't plan to

[Wojo 2,453]

Yes you can block any member except the mod staff. You just go to their profile page I think, or its somewhere in your own settings.

That's almost completely true. You cannot block yourself. I've tried.

[skyy38 21]

[Arpy 4,145]

That's a great cover. Is it crazy to think a whole production company made the real deal, whereas this guy single-handedly produced this?