Star Trek Discovery

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

If Paramount & CBS had any brains they'd scrap this series and go with my idea to wrap up the Abramsverse in a ten episode television event. It brings the alternate timeline into line with the existing one, and has the advantage of tying in Trek's best series, DS9.

 

After Nero's incursion in Abrams I, Starfleet devotes considerable resources to searching the galaxy for temporal incursions, worm holes, spatial anomalies, etc.  As a result, the Bajoran wormhole is discovered over a hundred years early.  Eventually, Starfleet sends ships through the wormhole, discover the Gamma Quadrant and run into the Dominion. 

 

The Dominion invades and war breaks out.  Changeling infiltrators are everywhere, and the Federation becomes paranoid. Everyone is suspect and extreme measures are taken. Civil rights are suspended, as is the Prime Directive and the Federation Charter. All of the Federation's resources and worlds are refocused towards one goal...militarisation and defeat the Dominion. It's a life or death struggle. The influence of the secretive Section 31 grows, until eventually they are a defacto shadow government making policy. Finally, after a long and bloody struggle, the Federation prevails.

 

But civil liberties are never restored, and the Federation, now called the Terran Empire, is forever changed, as is life on the Enterprise. Officers advance through assassination, and conquering worlds, not seeking out new ones, is now the ship's mission. After years of bloody war adn ethical compromises, Kirk is now a crazed and out of control despot, ruling through fear and intimidation. In the film's final scene, he's joined on the bridge by a now bearded Spock as the Enterprise approaches an ion storm...and the "mirror universe" is born.  

 

You're welcome.

 

 

 

[John 2,032]

Honestly, they really need to just let this franchise die out.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Urgh. The Mirror Universe. That's was fun for exactly 1 episode of TOS and maybe 2 of DS9.

Just now, JohnSolo said:

Honestly, they really need to just let this franchise die out.

 

Why?

 

It's been a successful little moneymaker for Paramount for decades now. With a very active fanbase.

A new TV show sounds like a far wiser investment than a near 200 million dollar movie.

[John 2,032]

The last Star Trek film made little to no profit in the box office.

 

And I believe it was the producer of the new ST series that admitted that the show would be moved to CBS All Access because no one would watch it.

 

In the age of "The Walking Dead" and all those superhero TV shows, no one wants to watch some cheesy sci-fi show that no one really cares about anymore. Sure, the original series revolutionized the TV and sci-fi industry, but it's way past its prime, and its popularity has dwindled down to a fraction of what it once was.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The original series was never a huge hit when it aired originally. Only in syndication later on. 

 

Seems to me though you don't actually have anything to say of the subject and just want to "engage" in some Trek bashing. How old were you again?

 

Btw, isnt The Walking Dead shit now?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

The book was better, anyway.

[John 2,032]

You claimed Rogue One was "shockingly mediocre". Seems as if you do your fair share of Star Wars bashing, as well. Do I not have the right to voice my own opinion on these forums, just as you do yourself?

 

 

And no, I've never seen TWD, I've just heard it's pretty popular nowadays.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Not liking Star Trek and wanting Paramount to kill it are two very different things.  One is your opinion, the other is vindictive.  What do you care if it exists or not when you don't watch Trek?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I gave my opinion on Rogue One after seeing it. I found it better than the Prequels but less good than the OT and TFA. 

 

How much Star Trek have you seen to be able to determine thaf this franchise has no more value and should be retired? 

You correctly cite Beyond's disappointing box-office. Have you seen the film? Or the two other JJ ones? Are you familiar enough with any of the TV shows or old movies to actually motivate your opinion that they should stop making Star Trek? Even as a TV show?

 

When I give my opinions about Stat Wars i do so because I like Star Wars, in general. And I know enough of the franchise and its history to have an informed opinion, imo. 

 

What are your credentials, sir?

[John 2,032]

I have watched the few dozen or so episodes of TOS, and the first few seasons of TNG. I recall watching one of the new Abrams Trek films awhile back, but I don't remember much of it, save for the excessive lens glares and camera filters.

 

 

I may not have seen all of the Trek films and TV series, and may not be able to vouch for the quality of them, but I do know a bit of the franchise's history and how popular Trek once was and is now.

 

 

I never once stated that the franchise has no value. There are plenty of aspects of Trek that I personally like and enjoy. If they canceled any future Trek films or TV series, a decent amount of people would still like it. The same goes for the LOTR franchise; it's not growing in films or books any time soon, but there is still a sizable fanbase out there.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Star Trek was huge for a short period in the 90's when it was actually almost mainstream....almost.

 

Forgetting the JJ films for a moment (which is easy enough) Trek has been off air for 12 years now. After running for 18 years (And about 5 too long, imo). It's time for a new generation to have a crack at it. 

 

I have strong reservations about this being yet another prequel, which is such a dramatically limited form that in my opinion only Vince Gilligan seems to have gotten any mileage from it.

 

But when it airs, or streams rather, i will be there to judge it with an open mind.

 

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

7 minutes ago, JohnSolo said:

The same goes for the LOTR franchise; it's not growing in films or books any time soon, but there is still a sizable fanbase out there.

 

I wouldn't be so sure of that... Give it one or two years, and we'll get an announcement from WB... The Middle-Earth Cinematic Universe... Yay...

[John 2,032]

Well, I'm at least hoping for a Silmarillion trilogy... I don't quite see how they would do it, but it'd be fun to go back to Middle-earth again. If they pull it off just right, it could be an amazing film trilogy.

 

 

I'm hoping, if it happens, WB learns from the Hobbit trilogy (just as Disney learned from the SW prequels) and cut back on the CGI and lean more towards practical effects.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well since WB doesn't own the rights to The Sil you can keep dreaming.

 

But if you like Middle-earth, we have a whole subforum that covers all sorts of Tolkien related topics.

[John 2,032]

Not yet, they don't!

 

 

And after the Silmarillion trilogy, we'll get series of standalone films, starting with a Gollum spinoff movie.

 

 

Then Disney will purchase the entire franchise and we'll get a LOTR/Star Wars crossover film.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Don't forget the Aragorn origin story movie and the one where we see how they stole the Mount Doom plans.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

*shudder*

[BloodBoal 7,538]

53 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Don't forget the Aragorn origin story movie and the one where we see how they stole the Mount Doom plans.

 

Ranger One: A Middle-Earth Story

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Greenlit!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

As long as Ed Sheeran scores it, i'm on board 

[Pieter Boelen 740]

On the subject of Star Trek, I still believe they haven't hit its full potential yet.

Still waiting for anything Star Trek where they're clearly exploring parts of unknown space, far from civilization, Where No Man Has Gone Before.

That's what they always claimed in the narration and that's what I bloody well want to see by now!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

That's sort of what Voyager was, just with bad/tired scripts.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I watched it hoping it would indeed be like that.

But it never felt like it; like they were really on their own in as unknown space as it gets.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That's exactly what they were, alone in unexplored space. 

 

But using the same TNG cave set we've seen for years, the same Southern California exterior locations (that ONE park they alwayseen to use, or that ONE quarry) and the same sort of aliens with those slightly vaginal Bob Westmore latex masks on them. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

 Any news on who is directing this new show? I assume they will use multiple directors.

 

Would be interesting to see them use a direction style that actually acknowledges that TV is a visual medium. Something the 90's Trek shows did far too rarely.

I'm not asking for JJ lensflares, but an occasional joie de vivre would be nice.

[Jay 37,348]

Star Trek: Discovery (2017– )

Full Cast & Crew

Series Directed by 

Adam Kane	...	(3 episodes, 2017)
David Semel	...	(2 episodes, 2017)
Lee Rose	...	(1 episode, 2017)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Interesting. Fairly decent resumes to be sure.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Voyager and Enterprise were only bad some of the time.

 

It really all went downhill when the original series was recast. That was right around the time when all franchises went to shit.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Voyager was a show with a great premise that mostly didn't go anywhere. And was left doing TNG style storied with even more technobabble, but lacking that certain something it's parent show did have.

 

To be honest I've not watched enough Enterprise to actually have an opinion on what the show was like.

 

What I did watch seemed to me a little bit too much like season 15 of a long running show rather then the first season of a new one.

 

I like Scott Bakula, but his acting style is more restrained and internalized that any of the Captains that came before. Maybe it was an acting choice, or just how he rolls. I would wager he's more a modern trained actor that a Shakespearean thesp ala Shatner or Stewart. And Mulgrew and Brooks were never afraid to chew the scenery a bit either.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Voyager had Seven of Nine.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

8 hours ago, Stefancos said:

That's exactly what they were, alone in unexplored space. 

 

But using the same TNG cave set we've seen for years, the same Southern California exterior locations (that ONE park they alwayseen to use, or that ONE quarry) and the same sort of aliens with those slightly vaginal Bob Westmore latex masks on them. 

Very true. The concept was totally there; but it didn't feel like it, for some reason.

 

Though maybe that is also because they were "lost in space", rather than deliberately exploring.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 hour ago, Selina Kyle said:

Voyager had Seven of Nine.

 

Ah yes, the old let's rescue a show by adding a blonde chick with a massive rack and stick her in tight spandex!

I actually liked the character, but that was blatant, wasnt it?

 

DS9 did better, by adding The Defiant, Worf and a whole load of interesting supporting characters.

 

13 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Very true. The concept was totally there; but it didn't feel like it, for some reason.

 

Though maybe that is also because they were "lost in space", rather than deliberately exploring.

 

But that was the concept, they were lost in space trying to find Earth (or The Federation anyway). In a way more Lost In Space/Battlestar Galactica than Star Trek TOS, and I'm fine with that. Despite the narration Star Trek has never been exclusively about finding strange new worlds etc.

 

I still can't quite make my mind up about Voyager actually. About half the characters arent track great, but Deanna Troi, Geordi or Doctor Crusher were hardly goldmines of personality either. My guess is that it's mostly a writing issue. And that they started out with a new concept, but never really knew what to do with it.

 

DS9 had the same problem. Basically a frontier western "town" made in the 90's, an era when the western on the big screen was already a rarity, and on TV they had all but gone extinct. A really silly move to make a show about that if you think about it, but a few format changes, a few writers that werent freelancers or second rate TNG writing room back benchers, a cool battle shit and you're all set.

 

Voyager for some reason never really found it's perfect formula.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

14 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

But that was the concept, they were lost in space trying to find Earth (or The Federation anyway). In a way more Lost In Space/Battlestar Galactica than Star Trek TOS, and I'm fine with that. Despite the narration Star Trek has never been exclusively about finding strange new worlds etc.

True again. In other words: Still potential left to explore!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

On a weekly TV budget....

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Why not?

It is the right approach that matters.

I don't believe it would require a stupidly high budget.

Plus many other series these days DO get that budget.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well what do you consider exploration though? There are many episodes in any of the shows that deal with alien worlds, unusual phenomena both scientific and abstract?

 

As for Discovery, I know next to nothing about it so I cannot comment on what it will feature. But it won't *just* be about exploration though.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

6 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Ah yes, the old let's rescue a show by adding a blonde chick with a massive rack and stick her in tight spandex!

I actually liked the character, but that was blatant, wasnt it?

 

DS9 did better, by adding The Defiant, Worf and a whole load of interesting supporting characters.

 

That's because it already had Dax.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Different sort of bombshell though. She wore a regular Starfleet uniform. 

[Pieter Boelen 740]

10 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Well what do you consider exploration though? There are many episodes in any of the shows that deal with alien worlds, unusual phenomena both scientific and abstract.

I'm thinking along the lines of such historical voyages of discovery like the ones done by Columbus, Magellan, Amerigo Vespucci, Darwin, etc.

But in the future and in space and aliens instead of indigenous people.

The universe is bigger than the Earth, so there is huge potential for something like that.

 

Of course a lot of that has come before.

But for it to really work, it needs to feel less episodic and really seem like one long trip.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree that would involve basically spending a whole season exploring a certain planet, region of space or alien culture. Which would be interesting though I'm not sure if thats what people are really looking for in something called Star Trek. I'm sure that type of naval exploration of the seven seas and all the worlds continents is fascinating to you. But it did involve years of being on the ocean with nothing much to do slowly dying of scurvy

 

Also while the naval exploration is perfectly valid and is referenced often enough on the shows itself Roddenberry pitched it as a space Western. With the Final Frontier being an analogy for the yet unexplored parts of the USA.

 

 

Just now, BloodBoal said:

Like The Love Boat?

 

If you ever mention The Love Boat in any Star Trek thread again I will hunt you down and kill you!

[Pieter Boelen 740]

8 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Like The Love Boat?

Wait, what!?! How is that in any way related to the point I was making?

 

8 hours ago, Stefancos said:

I agree that would involve basically spending a whole season exploring a certain planet, region of space or alien culture. Which would be interesting though I'm not sure if thats what people are really looking for in something called Star Trek.

Why a whole season for one planet?

That's like a historical around the world expedition spending a whole year on a single island!

My point about it needing to be less episodic purely means there should be story threads that carry over between episodes.

For example, the ship running low on supplies.

Plus character development with different crewmembers dealing with the length of the expedition and what they encounter in different ways.

Quite similar to Voyager, actually, with the main difference being that this should be deliberate exploration instead.

 

8 hours ago, Stefancos said:

I'm sure that type of naval exploration of the seven seas and all the worlds continents is fascinating to you. But it did involve years of being on the ocean with nothing much to do slowly dying of scurvy

Of course I'm not suggesting showing all the boring "waiting to arrive" stuff. That'd be pointless.

But I'd like if it were still included in some way, to make it feel like space is actually a large place.

So with more time passing between departure and arrival than several hours/days.

There could be the occasional episode that takes places purely between destinations, to show the kind of stuff that does happen on board.

 

I think main subjects to cover would be:

- Encountering primitive alien cultures

- Encountering advanced civilizations

- Exploring uninhabited areas to document flora and fauna (where obviously on the fifth such expedition in the same episode, after it has become routine, something unexpected happens)

- Dealing with dwindling supplies, how the captain and crew deal with that, both on board the ship and trying to find more on a new planet

- The uncertainty of when they'll encounter a new planet, considering turning back, risk of accompanying mutiny

- Include some charting of unknown space for good measure, possibly combined with navigational hazards, getting well and truly lost and figuring out new ways of preventing that

 

But the main point would be to make space feel as big and full of stuff to discover as it actually is.

 

8 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Also while the naval exploration is perfectly valid and is referenced often enough on the shows itself Roddenberry pitched it as a space Western. With the Final Frontier being an analogy for the yet unexplored parts of the USA.

Nothing wrong with combining genres!

But the American West is quite small compared to the world or, in this case, space.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

DS9 looked fairly cinematic in its later seasons.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

For a 90's show, yes

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It looks better than anything modern.

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'll be in my bunk!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

http://www.scifipulse.net/michael-dorn-to-guest-star-on-stdiscovery/

 

Pity about the disclaimer at the end. Would have been fun to see another Worf ancestor 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

If he did portray an ancestor it'd be Dorn made up as a TOS-style klingon right?  That would be fun.  It was pretty funny the contortions they bent themselves into to canonize the ridge-less klingons in Enterprise.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Anyone know when this is supposed to be airing? For some reason, my "telephone TV show reminder App thingey" claims that it aired yesterday.

But that doesn't sound right...