Star Trek Discovery

[A24 4,327]

Captain Lorca makes it kinda watchable, doesn't he? Suddenly there's a real actor on board.

 

Fans of Jason Isaacs must definitely check out The OA.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

45 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

Captain Lorca makes it kinda watchable, doesn't he? Suddenly there's a real actor on board.

 

 

Yes! There's a lot about Discovery that doesnt work right now, and may never work. But I'm enjoying Isaacs.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

 

Choose Your Pain

 

Well that was bloody awful, wasnt it?

The previous 4 had stuff that worked and that didnt work. Here almost nothing did. Again an incredible simple story. Captain Lorca gets kidnapped by Klingons, Discovery has to rescue him. But moral and ethical concerns about the use of the tardigrade erupt in a way that feels so forced and over-dramatic that it becomes almost comical.

 

These kinds moral questions are Star Trek bread and butter, but the way they are rushed through gives them almost zero dept here. In Star Trek characters argue the pro's and con's of certain actions to take. Here we see people with opposing viewpoints screaming at each other without convincing anyone. It's the Social Media version of Star Trek. 

 

Once again Michael Burnham goes against the orders of her superior officer and once again gets away with it. Stamets goes from being an insensitive prick to virtually playing Spock at the end of TWOK for no reason that the episode provides. Oh and he and the Doctor are a gay couple, they brush their teeth together.

 

The scenes with Lorca on the Klingon ship werent much good either. Isaacs is fine. The guy from the Office playing Mud wasnt, nor was the other guy, or the Klingons. Their story wasnt that original, wasnt that surprising, wasnt that well told and was rather violent and nasty. I like darker Star Trek, I don't need to see a guy kicked in the head till he dies.

 

Saru is the only character who does sorta work in this. The way he assesses the situation and tries to act according to the information at hand is classic Star Trek. But then he gives Burnham the opportunity to get the Tardigrade go, which is just silly.

 

There's a version of this story that could have worked. Pretty much everything here has been done before in Star Trek. But the way it's been assembled is clumsy, over the top, and strangely lacking in any weight. 

 

 

 

[A24 4,327]

OMG, episode 4 with that monster! Not only was it an idea taken straight from Dune (Spores = Spice), the whole episode was also silly and unbelievable (implausible). Did people notice the sudden drop in quality/watchability? We were like "What?!"

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah, but it hard more Jason Isaacs! So it's good, right?

[A24 4,327]

I'm waiting for his solo episode.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Solo episode?

[A24 4,327]

Sometimes certain characters get a solo episode. Like the famous Starbuck solo episode in Battlestar Galactica:

 

 

Or the priest solo episodes in The Leftovers:

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Does that still happen in the Golden Age though? Serialization makes it harder.

[A24 4,327]

Absolutely!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Breaking Bad had the famous Fly episode though, with just Walt and Jesse, maybe Discovery will have something like that. It could happen!!!

[A24 4,327]

Yes, I was thinking about the fly episode as well. And wasn't there a Jesse solo episode (the young girl neighbour episode)?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Star Trek Discovery isnt proper Golden Age, btw. So lower your expectations Alex. It's CBS.

[A24 4,327]

God, that's the worst network ever. Must ... stop ... watching ...

[Quintus 5,399]

The Walking Dead gave the nearest equivalent of a "solo" episode to its Governor character. It was one of its best! 

 

And that show is shite. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Btw, Alex. Interesting you mentioned the Battlestar Galactica episode. 

 

You're a fan of Battlestar 1980 then?

12 minutes ago, Quintus said:

The Walking Dead gave the nearest equivalent of a "solo" episode to its Governor character. It was one of its best! 

 

And that show is shite. 

 

That's one advantage of epidodic TV over serialized. Easier to base an ep around just a single character.

[A24 4,327]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

Btw, Alex. Interesting you mentioned the Battlestar Galactica episode. 

 

You're a fan of Battlestar 1980 then?

 

 

Not at all. But in those days we craved for sci-fi and so we watched Battlestar Galactica. What else were we going to watch? It was the dark age of TV.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well Knight Rider went on a few years later right?

[A24 4,327]

Yes, it was the age of  Glen A. Larson.

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thank God Star Trek TNG premiered a few years later and changed TV history. 

[A24 4,327]

Eh ...

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

In some ways it did. It gave a credibility that TV sci-fi never had before and started a wave a sci-fi/fantasy shows in the 90's. Many of them being serialized or semi-serialized. Which eventually led to the Soprano's.

 

You didn't watch TV much in the 90's. So I wouldn't expect you to know this. But the Golden Age didn't start just like that.

[A24 4,327]

Star Trek led to The Sopranos? I don't understand ...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not just Star Trek, but several shows from the 90's. And no, not Twin Peaks.

 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

Star Trek Discovery's first episode. Felt like template Star Trek to me. Only it looks a lot better than it ever did. Based on the small sample I've seen of this new series, I don't see any problems at all with the next generation of this old show. I quite enjoyed it 🖖

[Jay 37,322]

I enjoyed the pilot too!

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Fuck Star Trek. Who needs it.

[Quintus 5,399]

Decided to move straight onto epi two (I'm liking the 40min runtimes), and it was better again. There's a nicely competent level of stakes raising and the drama is handled about as well as I would expect it to be, that is to say it's making me give a damn about the characters, which is a good sign at this early stage. Well done to Netflix for being respectful of the brand.

 

Pity about the utterly unimaginative theme tune though. Is that really all they could muster for this? It's wallpaper. A shame really, because there has otherwise been moments of underscore here and there which I found decent. The incidental cues sound a lot like Destiny music actually. 

 

Oh and I take it I'm seeing what is a design refresh of the Klingon race? I'm sure it's already been pointed out by difficult Trekkers that they look quite similar to White Walkers. I do hope the universal translator will become more prominent in their scenes, as I'm finding the presumably authentic subtitled dialect to be a total slog to listen to. Those scenes are heavy on the histrionics and quickly becoming boring in their stagey delivery. Just speak English, please. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

So unless they've already planned on killing him off, I think Lorca may be the breakaway character on this show, which was clearly designed to revolve around Burnham.  Assuming Lorca survives the season, I can see him becoming a bigger character than maybe the writers originally intended, ala Sheldon in Big Bang.

 

Of course, this will result in the inevitable social media meltdown about how yet another white male is dominating Star Trek, but that will be fun to watch also.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

 

The producer did, however, address continuity concerns people have about Discovery. Goldsman said he was aware that Discovery could potentially catch up with The Original Series and, if that were to happen, the show would acknowledge The Original Series’ timeline in some fashion. Until that point, Goldsman said Discovery will exist within its own universe.

 

[A24 4,327]

Choose Your Pain wasn't bad, a bit Whedonesque even.

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Alex, you asked about how Star Trek led to The Soprano's. I didnt have time to explain myself yesterday.

 

The Golden Age is generally agreed to have started with The Soprano's. And I'm sure that's the case. Certainly when it comes to the overall quality of the writing, acting, production etc.

 

But the tendency towards more serialized prime time TV started earlier than that. With shows like The X-Files, Buffy, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine etc etc. Most of the popular shows of the 90's didnt actually have a reset button in the end. Events and actions from one episode were carried over to the next. Hell even Friends is essentially a serialized show. Seinfeld became one.

 

So the propensity for something like The Soprano's, or The Wire etc to happen was already there. Serialization, which was once thought as being an inferior form of storytelling used for soap opera's and Arron Spelling drama's was being embraced by a new generation of TV writers and producers, Like Whedon, Ronald d. Moore etc etc. The Industry was changing. It was waiting....

[Nick1Ø66 4,689]

Shows like TNG, Voyager, Friends, Seinfeld, X-Files and Buffy really aren't serialised though, at least as we think of it today. They have more continuity between episodes and seasons than their 80's (and before) counterparts to be sure. Certain situations and plot lines in those shows carry over through the course of a season and into multiple seasons, but for the most part each episode told a single story. But they're nowhere near serialised the way DS9 was. That show in many ways was groundbreaking).  And even the the serialised "arcs" in DS9 told a self-contained story within each episode.

 

Discovery is taking it to another level, of course in terms of Star Trek.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

The Times is ambivalent

 

Quote

Rather, “Discovery” feels like it’s adrift between the adventure-of-the-week format of its network-TV predecessors and the kind of complex serial favored by cable and streaming. It has the trappings of serious pay-TV drama: darkness, willingness to kill major characters “Game of Thrones”-style, even profanity. (This “Trek” sets its phasers to “F.”) But they’re mostly superficial.

................

These Klingons also have elements of cultlike fanaticism, and there’s reference to their having carried out “terrorist” attacks. (They’ve also gotten a makeover, with more prominent prosthetics than their old forehead ridges.) The result is a generic, bellicose mishmash of an enemy, whose subtitle-heavy scenes slow the show down rather than add depth.
 

There are flashes of promise, especially in the supporting characters. Doug Jones stands out as Lieutenant Saru, whose sensitivity to danger comes from belonging to a species that was bred as prey. His genetically wired wariness, like the spore-drive story, suggests a “Trek” attuned to biology like its predecessors were to physics.

 

“Discovery” can be effectively eerie and moody. But it’s not urgent or inventive in a way that cuts through the somberness. Dimming the lights, it turns out, does not automatically give you a better view of the stars.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/arts/television/star-trek-discovery-review-cbs-all-access.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Farts&action=click&contentCollection=arts&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront&_r=0

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I think almost everyone is so far, lol.

 

Still a while to go though.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I was almost hoping that Fuller would come back for season 2, I was interested in his concepts.  Now he's running the Amazing Stories reboot though.

[Jay 37,322]

There is no apostrophe in The Sopranos.  The name of the show is "The Sopranos".  Soprano was their last name.

[A24 4,327]

And correct me if I'm wrong but I've always understood that OZ, The Shield and The Wire were the beginning of the Golden Age of television.

 

I gave up on OZ though and I never watched The Shield. 

 

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ive heard The Sopranos more than those. But who knows.

 

Many claim Stranger Things is Golden Age 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

3 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

And correct me if I'm wrong but I've always understood that OZ, The Shield and The Wire were the beginning of the Golden Age of television.

 

I gave up on OZ though and I never watched The Shield. 

 

 

 

 

I think those are "proto-Golden."  The godfathers of the Golden Age.

[Jay 37,322]

The Shield is an important show, and was pretty damn good at the time it was on; I wonder how it would stack up on a rewatch against all the amazing TV that followed it.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Golden age was 50's and 60's. We are currently in the overrated age. Everything is a soap opera.

[A24 4,327]

Oops, I just checked the dates. The Sopranos (even though I watched it much later) is older than The Wire and The Shield. So that leaves us with Oz and since The Sopranos started only two years later, it indeed lies at the beginning of the Golden Age of TV. So Steef is kinda correct.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Maybe Oz is like the Iggy Pop to The Sopranos' Ramones.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

The age of the ocd viewrs

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So what do you think is the first proper Golden Age show? Oz or The S'oprano's.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I vote for All in the Family

[A24 4,327]

4 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

So what do you think is the first proper Golden Age show? Oz or The S'oprano's.

 

Well, I understand what Oz brought to the table and that is was a game changer, however, the tone didn't sit right with me. Any fans here?

[Jay 37,322]

I think the combined acclaim that these 5 shows received:

• Oz (1997 - 2003)
• The Sopranos (1999 - 2007)
• Six Feet Under (2001 - 2005)
• The Shield (2002 - 2008)
• The Wire (2002 - 2008)

Combined with movie-quality visuals being able to be both film affordably and seen in people's home with the rise of affordable HDTVs, let to the shift we have now of all the best writers writing for TV instead of movies, and this new "golden age" of TV we're in to this day.  These shows were the ones that started winning Emmy Awards after Network shows were the only shows that won them for literally decades and decades prior.

[A24 4,327]

Yeah, what Jay says.

 

This article thinks it was The Sopranos:

 

https://www.ft.com/content/68309b3a-1f02-11e7-a454-ab04428977f9

 

It contains interesting quotes by TV creators.