MISSION IMPOSSIBLE: FALLOUT (2018) - Film & Score

[Jurassic Shark 12,067]

5 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Composers don't “cash in” on album sales.

 

That depends entirely on how well it sells, and whether the composer is credited as the album producer.

4 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

It literally cannot be an awful score if you haven’t seen the film to judge it on its merits as a fucking FILM score.

 

The music might fit the film well and all that, but it could still be crappy music on its own.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

6 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

Who said this is a traditional orchestral score vs electronic-imbued score argument? 

 

Indeed - I don't think anyone in this thread made the orchestral vs electronic comparison until Koray did. If the score were more interesting and we only got a 45 min release, we'd probably be clamouring for a release like this one.

 

One of my top 3 Zimmer score is The Thin Red Line and I've never seen the film.

[deleted account 108]

7 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

It literally cannot be an awful score if you haven’t seen the film to judge it on its merits as a fucking FILM score.

 

Fine, maybe it’s a brilliant score, but by all accounts, it’s boring MUSIC. Who cares if it’s a good score in the movie if it’s a chore to listen to on its own?

 

[Richard Penna 3,686]

Particularly as we're all here because we listen to scores on album. To suddenly lecture us that we should be judging everything on how it works in the film just because an RCP composer has (shock horror) written a score that maybe serves the film a bit better than standalone, is very rich, especially considering that Koray writes album reviews. I wonder how the review for this one will turn out...

[Koray Savas 2,251]

1 hour ago, elvisjones said:

Fine, maybe it’s a brilliant score, but by all accounts, it’s boring MUSIC. Who cares if it’s a good score in the movie if it’s a chore to listen to on its own?

Because that’s the reason why it was written and perhaps Balfe shouldn’t be crucified for listening to his director and not thinking about whether you’ll enjoy it away from the movie?

[Caliburn 72]

The movie is not out here, so I have not seen it. But I am expecting the same thing as I had with Balfe's score for Pacific Rim. That score ruined the movie for me since I love Djawadi's score (and with that the movie) so much. I will test that theory when the movie arrives in the cinemas.

 

IMHO, if you are not Zimmer, you should stop reproducing his creative ideas. Zimmer pulled it off brilliantly for me in Dunkirk.  Awesome score for the movie, but not a pleasant stand-alone listening experience for me.

 

With that said, I LOVE Balfe's Beyond: Two Souls score 🙂

 

[Jay 37,352]

Koray has for a long time been a reasonable poster but in this thread he's suddenly and randomly gone off the deep end on a crusade against stuff that wasn't even happening in this thread (maybe it's happening in the other corners of the internet, I have no idea).

 

All that happened in this thread was a few people actually listened to the score album, and said they didn't like what they heard.  I don't know why Koray then launched into a crusade demanding everyone watch the movie a new score is written for before being allowed  to comment on the album.  What a boring place online film music discussion forums would be if everyone was required to watch the media before the score its for can be commented on.  I probably own 50 Goldsmith scores to movies I've never seen, and they are great!  But in Koray's world, I wouldn't be allowed to say that until I saw each film first. 

 

I think Koray just liked some prior Balfe scores and can't handle people bad mouthing this Balfe score.  Which makes no sense.  Lots of composers write good scores some times, and bad scores other times.  Just because this Fallout score isn't very interesting doesn't make Balfe a bad composer or any of his other work invalid.

 

I listened to the entire 95 minute album and didn't like what I heard.  I might like it more after I see the film, I might not, who knows.  But my reaction to and criticism of the album I listened to is perfectly valid.

It would have helped if Koray was more calm in his posts too instead of taking the thread into an aggressive territory it wasn't even in yet.  Weird.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Koray isnt completely wrong in one respect. A lot of times scores made by these Remote Control guys sounds just fine in the film. In that they adequately support whatever scene they were written for.

 

However I do maintain that worthwhile film music should do more than that, and I can't blame others who think likewise.

[Jay 37,352]

I am expecting to watch the film and think the music is completely acceptable and not annoying at all, ramping up the tension where needed - in other words, doing it's job.

 

I just didn't like listening to the album.  And that's OK!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

14 minutes ago, Jay said:

I just didn't like listening to the album.  And that's OK!

 

It is, and don't let anyone tell you it's not!

 

"It works just fine in the film!"is such a lame and low-reaching defence of a score.

[Jay 37,352]

I like plenty of scores that fit their films like a glove.

 

I like plenty of scores that are too much for their film, but I appreciate the music on its own all the more for being so big

 

I like plenty of films with scores that I don't care to listen to outside the film, but consider the score to be incredibly effective within the film itself.

 

 

Basically, I don't like forcing some hard set of rules of how I'm suppose to listen to or enjoy scores.

I just like what I like.

[Jurassic Shark 12,067]

56 minutes ago, Jay said:

Koray has for a long time been a reasonable poster but in this thread she's suddenly and randomly gone off the deep end on a crusade against stuff that wasn't even happening in this thread (maybe it's happening in the other corners of the internet, I have no idea).

 

Koray is a she?

[Jay 37,352]

typo fixed

[Mr. Who 919]

I thought Last Jedi was a bit of a crappy score but the world doesn’t end because I don’t like a score. The reactions have been a bit extreme with MI fallout. Not just here but with people attacking the composer (whom I don’t even like) on twitter etc.

 

Kraemer’s score was very good but it isn’t one of the greatest scores of all times.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

My two cents:  "Works well in context" was and always will be the most backhanded of compliments.  Presumably we're on this board because we want and expect film music to rise above being purely Pavlovian wallpaper.  These equivocating, rationalizing composers should have a little more self-respect, or maybe self-honesty.  "It was good enough for the producers" is not a laudable quality.

 

And I'm including Arnold in that, who I'm a huge fan of!  So it's not just Balfe bashing from me.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

I think Koray just liked some prior Balfe scores and can't handle people bad mouthing this Balfe score.  Which makes no sense.  Lots of composers write good scores some times, and bad scores other times.  Just because this Fallout score isn't very interesting doesn't make Balfe a bad composer or any of his other work invalid.

 

It's something Koray has with RCP composers in general - I see a constant defence of their music and methodologies whenever anything is questioned.

 

Sometimes you like stuff and sometimes you don't, and you don't have to have a completely logical reason why. I love some of Zimmer's stuff, but I think that some is utter crap. It's a completely normal feeling to have.

[publicist 4,643]

Maybe he has a small place down in the food chain. 

[Nick Parker 3,040]

32 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

My two cents:  "Works well in context" was and always will be the most backhanded of compliments.  Presumably we're on this board because we want and expect film music to rise above being purely Pavlovian wallpaper.  These equivocating, rationalizing composers should have a little more self-respect, or maybe self-honesty.  "It was good enough for the producers" is not a laudable quality.

 

 

While of course I would prefer music that has its own intrinsic value to listen to and enjoy, I don't even consider writing something purely for a film to be something to rise above, personally.

 

Sorry to use myself as an example and bring my little person into this debate revolving around big dogs, but for example I had to write a 8 minute stretch of music for a scene with vague "sync points", and I had literally an afternoon to do it. The result was something that the director thought was very effective, but whenever I try to listen to that cue, I think, "Oh my god, if I ever released this I would have to trim this wayyyyy down for it to be possibly interesting."

 

It's a frustrating listen, so I had to detach the dramatic composer part of me from the composer side of me that wants to produce something cool to listen to. I think it just has to be part of the job sometimes.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

5 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

I don't even consider writing something purely for a film

 

I don't think the two are separate.  Music written "purely" for a film doesn't need to be synonymous with "unengaging on its own" to me.

 

I do think it's interesting how really liking a film can make a piece of music you previously did not find engaging suddenly interesting to listen to, just because of the scene it accompanied in your memory.  Like, the structure of the piece suddenly makes itself obvious to you in a way it wasn't before.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

4 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I don't think the two are separate.  Music written "purely" for a film doesn't need to be synonymous with "unengaging on its own" to me

 

I didn't mean to say that, I meant more to respond to your "Pavlovian wallpaper " comment.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

5 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

 

I didn't mean to say that, I meant more to respond to your "Pavlovian wallpaper " comment.

 

There are also so many ways to enjoy a film score soundtrack.  When I say "engaging" I don't just mean specifically as music 100% divorced from associations with the movie or being "hummable"/catchy.  Like, I can appreciate choices made for specific scenes that reflect the composer's intelligence, perspicacity, and individual personality.  I'm merely bristling at "didn't distract me from the action" or "just supported the action" as being effective scoring. 

[Nick Parker 3,040]

9 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I'm merely bristling at "didn't distract me from the action" or "just supported the action" as being effective scoring. 

 

While I do agree with you in general sentiment, I also mean that there are times when the boring underscore is nigh impossible to avoid. Even some of my favorite Williams scores, I would find boring if released complete, due to parts where the music "just supported the action" in the film (again, the word "just" implying a qualitative judgement). I don't look down on those parts as being worse film music though: its presence was very necessary for the project at hand, and I think it'd be very naive to say that those parts aren't interesting because the composer didn't try hard enough to make them

interesting. (Not saying you made this argument, necessarily).

[Disco Stu 15,495]

7 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

 

While I do agree with you in general sentiment, I also mean that there are times when the boring underscore is nigh impossible to avoid. Even some of my favorite Williams scores, I would find boring if released complete, due to parts where the music "just supported the action" in the film (again, the word "just" implying a qualitative judgement). I don't look down on those parts as being worse film music though: its presence was very necessary for the project at hand, and I think it'd be very naive to say that those parts aren't interesting because the composer didn't try hard enough to make it interesting. (Not saying you made this argument, necessarily).

 

For sure!  And I would never argue that it's always a lazy composer.  Composers have always had to "do as they're told" in many situations, the best can turn it to their advantage.  Much of this can be laid at the feet of directors/producers IMO.  If music isn't adding anything to the scene beyond having some kind of non-distracting sound there, then maybe the scene didn't need music at all.  It comes back to movies being way, way overspotted these days.  It's why I greatly dislike that Williams quote that people love.  The comment about Star Wars films being easy to spot, the orchestra starts at the beginning and stops at the end.  Seeming to forget just how many scenes in the original were without music and how that was part of why the music was so effective.  A scene like Luke training with the lightsaber on the Falcon would never play silently now.  They'd want Williams to lather the Force theme all over it.

 

Anyway, I've lost track of what I'm arguing for.  We all like music for different reasons, and we all dislike music for different reasons.  Also, the Fallout soundtrack sucks.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

11 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Anyway, I've lost track of what I'm arguing for. 

 

11 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

the Fallout soundtrack sucks.

 

Nothing wrong with taking a simple core argument and spinning it out to pages of overarching philosophical discussion. 

 

Really, I'm just proud of my Williams image story on the last page, it was my raison d'etre.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I think the art of sound effects driven action setpieces is lost, sadly.

 

Or rather, the art of sound effects driven action setpieces without a thin layer of barely audible music just to be extra-careful-sure no one's bored is lost, sadly.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Just now, Disco Stu said:

I think the art of sound effects driven action setpieces is lost, sadly.

 

Or rather, the art of sound effects driven action setpieces without a thin layer of barely audible music just to be extra-careful-sure no one's bored is lost, sadly.

 

As boring as Lalo Schifrin's anecdote about Bullitt became after every interview on the planet, he had a very salient point. One of my favorite things in a movie is when music starts after a point of silence: even if the music is boring, well-spotted music can give me goosebumps upon a cue's entry.

 

That said, again, there are times when there does need to be _some_ musical accompaniment, some kind of aural presence that only music can provide...just be wary of putting that stuff on a platform for people to judge as music. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

7 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

As boring as Lalo Schifrin's anecdote about Bullitt became after every interview on the planet, he had a very salient point. One of my favorite things in a movie is when music starts after a point of silence: even if the music is boring, well-spotted music can give me goosebumps upon a cue's entry.

 

Jurassic Park has been on my mind because of The Soundtrack Show's recent series on the score.  It's easy to forget (for me at least, I don't rewatch the movie all that often) how there's a huge freaking section smack-dab in the middle of that movie without any music whatsoever.  Like 15 or 20 minutes.

 

I just think it's crazy how many big budget movies keep music in their big actions scenes but dial it back so much you'd never remember anything about it.  It's accomplishing nothing more than what sound effects could.  It makes no sense to me and it's incredibly frustrating.  I have to think it's frustrating for composers too, but maybe not.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

10 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Jurassic Park has been on my mind because of The Soundtrack Show's recent series on the score.  It's easy to forget (for me at least, I don't rewatch the movie all that often) how there's a huge freaking section smack-dab in the middle of that movie without any music whatsoever.  Like 15 or 20 minutes.

 

Is that the part where they're stuck in the jeeps at night? That's my favorite part of the movie! 

 

Also, with the beginning dialled out, and the music starting later, this is one of the most badass scenes ever:

 

 

 

EDIT: Quint's Tale serves as a great example in my mind of a track that really needed to be there, but isn't the most interesting to listen to on ots own.

[Locrius 97]

Trying to give this score another chance. Maybe I'll enjoy it more once I see the movie (but IMO, I shouldn't need the context of a film in order to get myself to like music—something I'm sure Balfe and I disagree on completely); right now though I'm trying to compile a playlist of the "good" tracks and see what I come up with. In small doses there's actually some pretty enjoyable stuff—I think the biggest issue is that the album is 96 minutes long.

[gkgyver 1,645]

16 hours ago, kaseykockroach said:

If I was a girl, I wouldn't date a guy who does Mission: Impossible music like that. 

 

 

Monotone trash like MI 6 Fallout gives film music a bad rep.

 

If I was caught listening to it, I could understand anyone asking me "Why do you listen to this crap?"

[antovolk 95]

6 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

I don't think the two are separate.  Music written "purely" for a film doesn't need to be synonymous with "unengaging on its own" to me.

 

I do think it's interesting how really liking a film can make a piece of music you previously did not find engaging suddenly interesting to listen to, just because of the scene it accompanied in your memory.  Like, the structure of the piece suddenly makes itself obvious to you in a way it wasn't before.

That's really the thing with the FALLOUT score for me. Without the moments from the film in mind and how well it works in those moments in the back of my mind I wouldn't enjoy listening to the score nearly as much.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just now, antovolk said:

That's really the thing with the FALLOUT score for me. Without the moments from the film in mind and how well it works in those moments in the back of my mind I wouldn't enjoy listening to the score nearly as much.

 

It’s funny, given how people keep comparing them, but Fury Road is the perfect example of that for me.  An OST I found nigh on unlistenable before seeing the movie, that I suddenly found myself really into just because the movie was such a masterpiece.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

5 hours ago, Nick Parker said:

That said, again, there are times when there does need to be _some_ musical accompaniment, some kind of aural presence that only music can provide...just be wary of putting that stuff on a platform for people to judge as music. 

 

Watching Texas Chainsaw Massacre for the first time and during the scene where the girl finally escapes the house it felt to me like something was missing - it needed some music to recognise the exhilaration at having escaped.

[Locrius 97]

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

The kids are staying with grandparents this Friday night so I'm actually going to get to see this movie opening weekend with my lovely wife!  Very excited.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

2 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

The kids are staying with grandparents this Friday night so I'm actually going to get to see this movie opening weekend with my lovely wife!  Very excited.

 

Hope you enjoy it! Looking forward to reading your thoughts. 

[antovolk 95]

Had a go at putting together a chronological order after seeing the film again today...looks like also a lot of editing was done in the film versions of the score cues. As per the norm with Zimmer stuff I guess.

 

Quote

1. A Storm Is Coming (Logos)
2. Should You Choose To Accept...
3. Good Evening, Mr. Hunt
4. A Terrible Choice
5. The Manifesto
6. Fallout (Main Titles)
7. Your Mission
8. Free Fall 
9. The White Widow
10. The Exchange
11. Change of Plan (that's the only cue I can't place...could go before/after No Hard Feelings?)
12. Escape Through Paris
13. I Am The Storm (another one I can't seem to place)
14. Steps Ahead
15. We Are Never Free
16. No Hard Feelings
17. Stairs and Rooftops
18. Kashmir
19. Fate Whispers To The Warrior
20. The Warrior Whispers Back
21. Unfinished Business
22. Scalpel and Hammer (lol at that mistake in the tracklist)
23. Cutting on One
24. The Last Resort
25. Mission: Accomplished (Curtain Call)
26. The Syndicate (Suite)

 

[mstrox 6,651]

Forgive me if this is buried somewhere here in the 13 pages of threads - I didn't see it in the last 1-2.

 

https://film.avclub.com/christopher-mcquarrie-on-the-perils-of-practical-action-1827843883

 

The director talks about the movie - and this probably has minor spoilers, at least about the action setpieces - but here is the interesting segment IMO.

 

Quote

When I came back for Fallout, my first order of business with Tom was to say, “I’ve got to be a different director.” It’s what the fans have come to expect from this franchise. They liked it and whether you meant it or not, they now expect a different director every time and that’s what I have to be. Now, a leopard can’t change his spots, so the most distinct way that I can do that is to create the impression of a different director. I’m going to start with a different creative crew. I replaced everybody that I had a comfortable relationship with, starting with my cinematographer, my composer, my production designer, my costume designer. Like, the only two creative people that came back were [editor] Eddie Hamilton and [stunt coordinator] Wade Eastwood.

 

Which falls in line with his statements a month or two ago that he would talk about why he didn't hire Kraemer back soon.

[Jurassic Shark 12,067]

Quote

they now expect a different director every time and that’s what I have to be. 

 

Not sure he's right about that.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Nothing knocks me out of a good review for a film when the critic cites another film he thinks is great like Baby Driver or VVitch. I suddenly question the critics viability.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Baby Driver was good

[Jay 37,352]

I agree with Disco Stu!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

6 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Baby Driver was good

It was okay but it wasn't a masterpiece. 

VVitch however is just a bad bad film. Worst of all it was boring.

[Drew 590]

McQuarrie is capable of changing his style every time but none of his other collaborators are, huh? What a hypocritical and short-sighted decision.

[Jurassic Shark 12,067]

I think he basically said he could not change himself, therefore he had to replace the other key contributors.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

Isn't he old enough to where his mother doesn't have to change him anymore?

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I guess that's...kind of admirable? But:

5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Not sure he's right about that.

 

Did he think audiences would watch this movie and say, "Wait, this feels like the same creative footprint behind the last movie! That's not why I watch Mission: Impossible! I'm outta here!"

 

Hope he didn't burn any bridges with his usual collaborators through this move, and that he would have had the courtesy to let them know his motives.

[Drew 590]

Balfe rewteeted a video of a kid being brainwashed into thinking that he wrote the Mission: Impossible theme...

 

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Brainwashed? For fuck’s sake...

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

11 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

Brainwashed? For fuck’s sake...