MISSION IMPOSSIBLE: FALLOUT (2018) - Film & Score

[Koray Savas 2,251]

That’s irrelevant. If Balfe was a ghost writer, you wouldn’t know who he was. Look at Desplat, he has real ghost writers. That dude ain’t writing 20 scores a year on his own. 

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

This discussion sure is getting spoooooooky!

[Drew 590]

4 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

That’s irrelevant. If Balfe was a ghost writer, you wouldn’t know who he was. Look at Desplat, he has real ghost writers. That dude ain’t writing 20 scores a year on his own. 

 

I don't know about that. He's Desplat, after all. He's an un-humanly fast composer. Probably a rare exception to the ghostwriter requirements at times.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Some of y'all need real lives.

[Arpy 4,145]

6 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

 Look at Desplat, he has real ghost writers. That dude ain’t writing 20 scores a year on his own. 

 

 

Yeah, they're real ghostwriters because they don't exist.

[Richard Penna 3,676]

7 hours ago, Drew said:

 

I don't know about that. He's Desplat, after all. He's an un-humanly fast composer. Probably a rare exception to the ghostwriter requirements at times.

 

JNH is another one isn't he? I'm sure he had help on Kong, but I think he's also said to be a very fast writer.

 

My personal viewpoint is that I don't particularly like the committee/co-composer methodology, but that's largely based on an ignorance of the realities of scoring and schedules. If it turns out that actually, most films' schedules simply don't allow for one composer to do all the work then that changes the argument. If the opposite is true, and composing by committee is often a choice, then again, different argument. My ultimate point is that I'd appreciate arguments being made in a more educational way rather than 'you're wrong because of this fact that everyone knows'.

 

I would likely still have my view even if the former is the case but at least I can understand the practical reasoning while making my creative arguments.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Desplat has specifically said before that he writes his music on his own, that he works completely alone in his studio.  Why would he lie about that?  Composers who have teams are usually quite open about it.

[Jay 37,323]

I agree with Disco Stu..

[Drew 590]

I think Desplat writes with pencil and paper, alone. Any "ghostwriting" is done by his orchestration and digitalization teams.

[Marian Schedenig 8,179]

I've missed this thread so far, for the same reason I miss most of the big franchise threads: I don't like reading much about a film before it comes out, mostly for fear of spoilers, and when I've finally seen it the thread is way too long for me to ever catch up. So I only read a few random posts here.

 

But the big question for me is this: Why in the world does someone invest time and money to learn (to some extent) to write music and then take a big assignment for a film score and write an endless stream of rhythmic noise that has no personality, virtually no merit as standalone music, and doesn't do much more for the film it was written for than any other random stream of rhythmic noise would?

 

Film music can be art. The nature of the business (financial demands, the need to please a huge number of diverse people, etc.) means that it's usually hard to make it high art, especially nowadays with ever shortening production deadlines. But all art is part inspiration and part craft, and the great film composers have usually found a way to produced worthwhile music that has merit when listened to on its own. Yes, it is perfectly valid to score a film in a way that doesn't necessarily make much sense as a standalone listening experience. I thought Zimmer's Dunkirk score worked very well in the film, but I don't see any reason to listen to it on its own (in that regard I consider it more sound design than film music, and would have been annoyed had it won the music Oscar). But unless a "non-musical" score really fits its film so well that I find it hard to imagine a different score with more inherent musical interest, I considered it at least a missed opportunity. Scores like Williams's Images and Goldenthal's Alien³ have a strong sound design aspect to them, yet they're still musically relevant, even when divorced from their films.

 

But the MI: Fallout score is clearly "music", in a very basic form. Standard chords and rhythms, even with catchy themes (Schifrin's). It even tries to work with the themes by making them "epic" with Epic Choir. So it's clearly not an abstract sound design approach. But it's also musically empty, devoid of personality or any sort of complexity, intricacy, or inspiration to make it musically interesting. Its only contribution to the film is a steady rhythm and a constant loudness level, and I fail to see how anyone possessing the skills of either writing good (in whatever form of "good") music and/or producing a sound design to give a film atmosphere and personality and with a desire to work in the film score business could aspire to write something as empty as this and be satisfied with it.

 

The primary goal of a film score is to support the film it was written for. When it succeeds in doing that, it's "good enough". "Good enough", in view of what else a film score can be, is a missed opportunity. But this score so obviously aims at just "good enough" that it isn't even that.

 

(I am aware that this probably sounds utterly hateful towards Lorne Balfe. I haven't heard much else of what he's done. Some of what I've heard I didn't like, some I don't recall but didn't mind (Marcella, for instance). But after seeing MI: Fallout, this is what went through my mind as a longtime film music listener)

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Some here think it’s the art of film music freeing itself from musty 19th century paradigms.  I think there’s a way to do that that doesn’t sound like this garbage Balfe shite though.

[Marian Schedenig 8,179]

It's the art of film music freeing itself from art.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Quite the contrary.

Modern film music isn't freeing itself from any classical paradigms whatsoever, because this would implicate that classical 19th century composers adhered to paradigms and musical rules to an abnormal amount. The vast majority of modern film music is adhering to musical rules more than ever before, and in doing so, eliminates every potential spirit of channeling something that could be more than the sum of its parts.

Early 19th century composers and before, especially those working with big ensembles, had a vast knowledge of music, and had to have a vast knowledge of music because it wasn't as easy to produce and practice music as it is today. And like with anything else, once you have a great knowledge, and it's become your own flesh and blood, and second nature, so that, in the case of music, you can write a line of music like you can write a sentence, then you can start to express yourself and your imagination, and you can experiment and find those musical moments that are unique, and you can translate what you hear in your mind directly onto paper, the more you do so. Like an accomplished chef can only prepare unique world class dishes because he learned how to do the basics perfectly, and how flavors work.

 

In short, those 19th century composers, also, and maybe especially, opera composers for example, learned an extraordinary amount of theory, so that they then could break free and use that knowledge to create something that's more than the sum of its parts.

You can't listen to something like the Prelude to Act I of Lohengrin, and say that this is strictly adhering to paradigms and rules. There is something universal channeled there.

 

Today, composers are bred that are pure film composers, who aren't even close to that level of knowledge, and who therefore don't even have the basis on which they could create something extraordinary and unique. Instead of using theory and knowledge to express themselves, they adhere to them.

 

And anytime you adhere only to rules, and only work within those rules, the result will be formulaic, standardized, and not worth mentioning. And Balfe is not only adhering to those basic musical rules, he's also adhering to the musical paradigm of Hans Zimmer. So, his music is twice as unremarkable.

 

And I can't blame any composer, who really studied and trained hard in the classical field, who knows his shit by heart, and who wants to be a serious classical composer, that he doesn't want to lower himself and be associated with trash like Fallout, and be stuck under the same job description "film composer".

[Drew 590]

4 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Balfe shite

 

Lorne, Balfe, and shite

 

Gotta make every four-letter word fancier with an e at the end.

[Arpy 4,145]

I guess it could be something akin to being a composer first, a film composer second. Of all of the composers to break free of the RCP reigns and bring their own voices to the table, Powell, JNH, and a few others have actively worked by writing music alongside their film scoring careers. The game has changed now where a great deal of film composers are primarily 'film composers' and write solely for film. It's strange, yet I should say that it doesn't preclude them from creating good music by any means. In the case of MI:Fallout, this score is a functional wallpaper action score that got in, did it's job and then left the moment the movie finished, this isn't a reflection of Balfe's scoring abilities, it just says to me that it was what the producers and director wanted.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

6 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

(I am aware that this probably sounds utterly hateful towards Lorne Balfe.

 

Not at all.  Much more level headed explication of why you don't like his score than some others here have afforded him. 

 

5 hours ago, gkgyver said:

Today, composers are bred that are pure film composers

 

You're usually wrong about everything but this is a problem yes. 

 

1 hour ago, Drew said:

 

Lorne, Balfe, and shite

 

Gotta make every four-letter word fancier with an e at the end.

 

Classy. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

13 minutes ago, Arpy said:

The game has changed now where a great deal of film composers are primarily 'film composers' and write solely for film.

 

I think some of these composers would struggle getting assignments other than film, television, commercials, and video games.

[Arpy 4,145]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

I think some of these composers would struggle getting assignments other than film, television, commercials, and video games.

That wouldn't be an issue, though. If you were a film composer, wouldn't scoring assignments be all you'd take?

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

23 minutes ago, Arpy said:

That wouldn't be an issue, though. If you were a film composer, wouldn't scoring assignments be all you'd take?

 

I'd think some film composers would aspire to do concert works, where they in some ways have more artistic freedom.

 

But some film composers probably don't aspire to such things...

[Disco Stu 15,495]

They like to think of themselves as filmmakers first, composers second.

[Richard Penna 3,676]

4 hours ago, Arpy said:

 this isn't a reflection of Balfe's scoring abilities, it just says to me that it was what the producers and director wanted.

 

I'm a strong believer that a composer shouldn't necessarily be to blame for a 'bad' score if it's posible that they were simply giving the director/producer what they asked for.

 

But I then look for indications of how happy the composer was with what they eventually produced, and one of those indications is what they choose to release.

[deleted account 108]

7 hours ago, Arpy said:

Of all of the composers to break free of the RCP reigns and bring their own voices to the table, Powell, JNH, and a few others have actively worked by writing music alongside their film scoring careers. 

 

I didn't know JNH worked at RCP?

 

2 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

I'm a strong believer that a composer shouldn't necessarily be to blame for a 'bad' score if it's posible that they were simply giving the director/producer what they asked for.

 

But I then look for indications of how happy the composer was with what they eventually produced, and one of those indications is what they choose to release.

 

 Good point - look at the OST for ALIEN vs the music in the film, or Phantom Menace....

 

[antovolk 95]

Isolated score is coming - 

 

McQuarrie and Balfe will also be doing a podcast on the score

 

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

It's a series I really really like and I just realized I don't own a single Mission: Impossible movie on DVD or blu-ray.  They aren't really movies I rewatch.

[Jay 37,323]

Same

 

I want to buy MI5 for sure though; I would have immediately if it had an iso score like Reacher did

[Drew 590]

Does McQuarrie have a more comfortable relationship with Balfe than Kraemer at this point?

[Richard Penna 3,676]

2 hours ago, antovolk said:

Isolated score is coming - 

 

 

Of all the scores.

[Marian Schedenig 8,179]

An iso score for this? Now it's getting grotesque.

 

2 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

It's a series I really really like and I just realized I don't own a single Mission: Impossible movie on DVD or blu-ray.  They aren't really movies I rewatch.

 

I have 1 & 3 on DVD (will pick up the new Blu transfers as soon as the price drops) and 4 & 5 on Blu. I've always found them very rewatchable.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just now, Marian Schedenig said:

have 1 & 3 on DVD (will pick up the new Blu transfers as soon as the price drops) and 4 & 5 on Blu. I've always found them very rewatchable.

 

They are, but not compulsively for me.  I like just catching them randomly.  I did rent Rogue Nation once after seeing it in theaters

[Koray Savas 2,251]

On 8/17/2018 at 7:26 AM, Richard Penna said:

 

I'm a strong believer that a composer shouldn't necessarily be to blame for a 'bad' score if it's posible that they were simply giving the director/producer what they asked for.

 

But I then look for indications of how happy the composer was with what they eventually produced, and one of those indications is what they choose to release.

Composers rarely choose what to release.

[Richard Penna 3,676]

Are you talking about whether there is one, or how they fill their 70 mins?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The former.

[Richard Penna 3,676]

Yep, I'd agree with that completely.

 

However, once the composer is given a CD and asked to fill it, then that's when we can look at what they decided to put on there.

 

Case in point, Balfe has clearly decided to make virtually his entire score available to buy. This is not the action of a composer who wasn't happy with what he was asked to write.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Well if you are tasked with coming up with an album presentation, you're gonna put some effort in.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I saw the movie the other day because I really enjoyed the last one - score and film. I hadn't realised there was a composer change before going into it, but it was a relief finding it out afterwards because my lord did this score stink. I found myself constantly being taken out of the film, either because the music was far too loud and overblown or just straight-up not fitting the scene it was written for.

 

At one point in the film, the characters are wordlessly interacting in an underground canal in Paris after the motorcycle chase. Great spot for music - no dialogue, just shots of the characters doing their thing. The score consisted of a basic snare drum pattern (which is fine - simplicity is often the best approach) but with the most inane, disjointed staccato cello/bass hits playing over the top. Every single note sounded exactly like the last one with no variation in dynamics or articulation, no contour to the melody and absolutely no tension to speak of. I was not only taken out of the film but completely confused at the choice of music and baffled at its execution. I don't enjoy speaking ill of composers that often because I am one myself, but that was some undergraduate shit right there. I'm sure Balfe is an extremely accomplished composer (I'm not at all familiar with his other work) but if I were him I'd stop working with producers that ask for such tripe in their films.

 

But then again I haven't been asked to do a major Hollywood film, so who knows what I'd do in his shoes.

[Caliburn 72]

Topics like this one, made me write down my thoughts about this movie, for who is interested.

 

https://soundtrackworld.com/2018/08/mission-impossible-fallout-lorne-balfe/

[Arpy 4,145]

On 8/19/2018 at 7:50 AM, Richard Penna said:

Yep, I'd agree with that completely.

 

However, once the composer is given a CD and asked to fill it, then that's when we can look at what they decided to put on there.

 

Case in point, Balfe has clearly decided to make virtually his entire score available to buy. This is not the action of a composer who wasn't happy with what he was asked to write.

I don't think Balfe thought poorly of his score, besides, I've always been of the opinion that they should release scores in their entirety, clearly Balfe and the studios deemed it viable for them to go ahead and release most of it.

[Mr. Who 919]

34 minutes ago, Arpy said:

I don't think Balfe thought poorly of his score, besides, I've always been of the opinion that they should release scores in their entirety, clearly Balfe and the studios deemed it viable for them to go ahead and release most of it.

Agreed. Complaining about too long albums while at the same time asking for expansions is weird. This isn’t a score I will listen to outside the movie but it’s still a good thing that a lot of the music gets released.

[Arpy 4,145]

Got around to seeing the film today and thought it was great, all the action and usual MI antics are all there and the filmmaking is really spectacular. The score worked fine for what it was, a big, loud 'backing track'.

 

After weeks of seeing posts here about the score, I finally understood the whole samples argument a lot clearer, especially during one of the chase sequences where the MI theme sounds perhaps intentionally like it was being played on an electronic keyboard with midi soundfonts! Wasn't distracting, but it was noticeable. There were sections which felt like lifts from Inception and Dark Knight Rises, specifically the fast ostinati sections that bring to mind 'Mombasa Chase' or 'Batman Chased', which brings me to the point that this felt like a score with Zimmer's voice, I didn't really hear or differentiate the two composers or say; 'Ah, that's Balfe!'

[Jay 37,323]

MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE – FALLOUT (2-CD SET)
LLLCD 1467
Music by Lorne Balfe                                                                                                          
RETAIL PRICE: $19.98

Available to order at www.lalalandrecords.com staring 9/11 at 12 noon (pst)

STARTS SHIPPING SEPT 19

La-La Land Records and Paramount Pictures present the original motion picture score to the worldwide blockbuster smash MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE – FALLOUT, starring Tom Cruise, Simon Pegg and Rebecca Ferguson, and directed by Christopher McQuarrie. Acclaimed composer Lorne Balfe (12 STRONG, PACIFIC RIM: UPRISING, THE LEGO BATMAN MOVIE ) unleashes a must-have powerhouse of a music score -- the perfect compliment to this latest thrilling installment of the long-running hit franchise. Produced by Lorne Balfe and Steffen Thum, and mastered by Patricia Sullivan, this knockout release serves up 2-CDs worth of astounding action/thriller/adventure film music and contains exclusive bonus tracks that are not available on the digital download version. CD booklet contains brief comments by director Christopher McQuarrie.

TRACK LISTING:

DISC 1
1. A Storm Is Coming (1:12)
2. Your Mission* (2:14)
3. Should You Choose To Accept... (2:35)
4. The Manifesto (1:45)
5. Good Evening, Mr Hunt* (4:20)
6. Change Of Plan (5:47)
7. A Terrible Choice (2:55)
8. Fallout* (1:30)
9. Stairs And Rooftops* (6:00)
10. No Hard Feelings (4:21)
11. Free Fall* (4:13)
12. The White Widow* (4:43)
13. I Am The Storm (2:08)
14. The Exchange* (5:27)
15. Steps Ahead# (1:02)
16. Escape Through Paris# (5:05)

DISC 2
1. We Are Never Free (6:57)
2. Kashmir# (4:30)
3. Fate Whispers To The Warrior*# (3:54)
4. And The Warrior Whispers Back*# (3:57)
5. Unfinished Business* (1:50)
6. Scalpel And Hammer (5:10)
7. The Syndicate (6:00)
8. Cutting On One (3:43)
9. The Last Resort* (2:55)
10. Mission: Accomplished* (1:14)

BONUS TRACKS
11. Plutonium Trade (2:54)
12. As Ugly As They Come (2:27)
13. Framing Ethan (2:02)
14. Je Suis De Sole* (1:06)
15. Trapped (3:27)
16. The Mission is Terminated (2:11)

*Contains An Interpolation Of “The Mission: Impossible Theme” Composed By Lalo Schifrin
#Contains An Interpolation Of “The Plot” Composed By Lalo Schifrin
*#Contains Interpolations Of “The Mission: Impossible Theme” And “The Plot”

 

http://secure.campaigner.com/csb/Public/show/4our-svl8u--i6six-ag4f6q3

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

Well, I tried to follow Lorne's suggestion and get better headphones so I can enjoy this wonderful music...and look what happened! 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

After seeing all the M:I flicks over the last few days (Fallout excepted), holy shit, how did I miss all this melodrama? I guess it makes sense, I had no context to put all this in.

 

Anyhoo, after seeing Rogue Nation and hearing its score (at necessary low volume, grr), I thought it was the best one. But this Chris Mac chap thinks Balfe drones are superior? Sounds like some jerk director who hates composers stealing their thunder. Maybe Cruise should direct one of these himself and bring back Kramer!

[crocodile 7,990]

Looks like the Blu-ray will feature a score featurette (Foot Chase Musical Breakdown), a composer's commentary AND isolated score track.

 

Speak about rubbing it in.

 

Karol

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

On 10/3/2018 at 7:12 AM, Norma's Corpse said:

Maybe Cruise should direct one of these himself and bring back Kramer!

 

That would be interesting!

[Richard Penna 3,676]

9 hours ago, crocodile said:

Looks like the Blu-ray will feature a score featurette (Foot Chase Musical Breakdown), a composer's commentary AND isolated score track.

 

Speak about rubbing it in.

 

Karol

 

[Nick Parker 3,040]

The guy was just doing what he was hired to do, to write music that fit the images, remember! 

 

Oh wait, he's getting a major spotlight on his score for the home video release, a rare luxury treat.

 

Anyone still buy his excuses as a response to criticism?

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

Not being able to handle critizism of obvious shortcomings is a sign of a person that's too proud to learn from his own mistakes, and unless he changes his attitude he'll forever be stuck in the league of mediocricy.

[Richard Penna 3,676]

Based on this thread, Koray seems far more worried about criticism of the score than Balfe does. It's bizarre.

 

And arguments from either to excuse the mediocrity of the score collapse the more the score gets a spotlight.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Seems to be doing quite well actually. Don’t think the mob opinion of JWFans has any bearing on his career. 

[Richard Penna 3,676]

I'm sure it hasn't - Balfe is probably very happy.