Jump to content
Damien F

MISSION IMPOSSIBLE: FALLOUT (2018) - Film & Score

Recommended Posts

On 7/17/2018 at 2:00 PM, Disco Stu said:

 

Thanks for sharing that blurb you quoted from this, btw - it was a very funny read!

And, sadly, quite accurate.  I listened to the entire 96 minute OST album the other day at work.  It is, really, quite boring and monotonous.

 

All the original music is quite nondescript.

 

Then, the small portions that work either the main MI theme or The Plot into things are, somehow, even worse.  After the glorious ways Elfman and especially Kraemer broke down The Plot and reworked it in amazing fun new ways, he utterly destroys it here, making it sound limp and pathetic.  And the first major run-through of the main MI theme is fine I guess, the final one in the last track with the RCP choir is atrocious.

 

Bad score.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Matt C said:

Can someone explain, for the love of God, WHY McQuarrie ditched Joe Kraemer for this? Other than wanting a Nolan-type sound?

 

McQuarrie says plainly that he wanted a score of "simplicity and minimalism" for Rogue Nation in the liner notes of that soundtrack. Word on the street is that Tom Cruise wasn't very enthusiastic about the demo cues he was hearing in that vein, and kept asking for more assertion and presence from the underscore, so Kraemer of course followed those instructions. So now McQuarrie wasn't getting the sort of music he wanted. Not only that but the movie's release date was moved to six months earlier, which meant that there was virtually no time for McQuarrie to really check out what each cue was going to sound like. Kraemer tried to be accommodating by writing multiple versions/ideas for cues and give him some options but that's still not the most ideal thing in the world.

In February when the Lorne Balfe rumors were starting to go around, Kraemer said on Twitter that he hadn't been contacted at all by McQuarrie about MI6 (and then a day later said, "okay, I got an email just now, it's a 'no'"). It seems like McQuarrie's decision wasn't necessarily about the quality of the finished score but more the very unsatisfying scoring process. I guess he wanted a fresh start without all the baggage of what happened on the last movie, or worse, a repeat. Kraemer also decided to "like" a tweet that was highly critical of McQuarrie for the whole situation, so you can probably surmise how well their relationship is doing.
It's not as if Kraemer would refuse to do a Nolan-type score either - he's said pretty bluntly that if he were hired and asked to do that, if push came to shove, he'd do it if it's what he was being asked to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cruise seems like one of those people who loves the work they do and has a passion for his craft and the process of filmmaking; he's passionate and enthusiastic in the interviews and bts of most of his projects, which makes it strange to think he's also a delusional crackpot who's in bed with Scientology.

 

Who has the power in this scenario? McQuarie or Cruise?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Who has the power in this scenario? McQuarie or Cruise?

 

They've kind of both given each other the mid-to-late career boosts they needed.  Mutually beneficial relationship.  But I'm guessing that McQuarrie works for Cruise, ultimately.  For Cruise's production company at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Guess I’m the only one that likes the score. 

 

Nah, I'm liking it more now. My favorite bit:

 

 

But Rogue Nation is still much better. I mean, does this score even have any original themes in it? I haven't noticed any. Obviously, a good score doesn't have to have to be leitmotivic. But particularly where the orchestration isn't very complex it's nice to have something intricate to latch onto. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Guess I’m the only one that likes the score. 

 

I'm just tired of hearing the same MV/RC sound in every major blockbuster. Maybe it'll play better in the actual film.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I think the point is that the score is supposed to sound like a major blockbuster. Rogue Nation was envisioned as sort of a "spiritual successor" to the original television show and took more inspiration from that than the previous Cruise films. The music reflected that choice. I haven't seen Fallout but the trailers make it look like it's trying to be a blockbuster "of its time" and have the feel of what you would expect a 2018 action movie to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Ya don't say

Well it wasn’t obvious to Arpy!

3 hours ago, Matt C said:

 

I'm just tired of hearing the same MV/RC sound in every major blockbuster. Maybe it'll play better in the actual film.

Yes, that’s why I asked earlier if anyone had even seen it yet. Film scores are meant to score films 😛

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Koray Savas said:

Well it wasn’t obvious to Arpy!

Yes, that’s why I asked earlier if anyone had even seen it yet. Film scores are meant to score films 😛

 

Bad screenplays are still meant to lead films. If a bad screenplay "works" on some level for its film, is it immune to criticism in comparison to great screenplays? Sounds ridiculous, but that's how the score's proponents are dodging the criticism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, ComposerEthan said:

 

 

Can't believe Lorne said that. It should be both!  

 

You've done scores, Ethan: haven't you ever written something where its presence was needed for the project at hand, fits well, but with the thought, "Good lord, I would hate it if someone were to actually listen to this!" ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David Arnold weighed in BTW:
 

David Arnold
A bit off topic here and nothing to do with the score under discussion...but what if a composer wants it to sound like that ? And those employing him are happy with what he/she delivered ?

Lorne Balfe
What is “right” is to compose to picture.If it can be also a stand alone piece of music then that is a bonus .But the objective is for it to fit the visuals .

Damien Fenton
I think Herrmann's Murder cue is the best example of that. It isn't a great stand alone listen but clearly works wonders in the film.I haven't seen MI6 yet but my instinct from listening to the score is that it works well in the movie & is closely attuned to the on-screen action

Damien Fenton
But as a score fan, I get disappointed when a score isn't a satisfying stand alone listen because in most cases, composing to picture while creating good stand alone music is possible. I get disappointed by the missed opportunity.

Damien Fenton
As an e.g., Shore's LOTR or JW's Star Wars / Indy (especially Temple of Doom) did not need to be as complex as they are. Scores of half their quality would have still fit the movies very well. But they ended up also writing great stand alone music whether intentional or not.

David Arnold
And when you say ‘scores of half the quality’ , you are abandoning fact for preference

Damien Fenton
Understandable but I deliberately picked scores that are universally considered to be some of the best ever written so to avoid personal preference.

David Arnold:
That’s not to say that either film could have had a different, less complex but equally effective score.there is no ‘one way’ to score any one film .

David Arnold:
The job of writing film music isn’t an opportunity to write a concert piece or to have music from that film have a life outside of the picture.i agree that sometimes that happens and it’s nice when it does but that’s not what it’s for .

Damien Fenton:
Again I agree. But when a score is released on an album, that invites the music to be reviewed as a stand alone listen. But that is where personal taste and preference plays a part rather than the core purpose of scoring to film

David Arnold:
It’s weird isn’t it....to invite it to be reviewed as something that it isn’t? It’s still film music and as such is impossible to review with any real meaning away from the film.unless you review the costumes as fashion pieces

In another thread:

Damien Fenton:
I'm enjoying the debate esp the point @DavidGArnold raises about taste.I prefer classic orchestral sound instead of processed.But if composer/director is happy,what makes that processed sound less 'good'? I hate liquorice but that doesn't mean it isn't a nice sweet for others

David Arnold
Also you’re talking about noticeably processed sounds.theres so much you hear in contemporary scoring that is processed but you don’t notice because the work isn’t being done on orchestral sounds you’re familiar with .

Arnold also wrote:

There’s nothing wrong with not liking an approach,However , your not liking it doesn’t make it bad,or wrong or any other value judgement you care to throw against it. it just means u don’t like it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

#beatingaroundthebush

 

Once you accepted the perfectly valid viewpoint that if you transfer it from Medium A to B, it can be criticized, categorized or canonized within the 'rules' of Medium B, all these wannabe arguments about the job constrictions a film composer may encounter in his day job do not hold water.

 

Especially since all these 'arguments' are mostly veiling/excusing the lackluster nature of many current scores, trying to pass the parcel over to other part of the production who are responsible for scores that do not have life, distinction or originality - never the composer!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, publicist said:

#beatingaroundthebush

 

Once you accepted the perfectly valid viewpoint that if you transfer it from Medium A to B, it can be criticized, categorized or canonized within the 'rules' of Medium B, all these wannabe arguments about the job constrictions a film composer may encounter in his day job do not hold water.

 

Especially since all these 'arguments' are mostly veiling/excusing the lackluster nature of many current scores, trying to pass the parcel over to other part of the production who are responsible for scores that do not have life, distinction or originality - never the composer!

 

 

39 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said:

If we're not supposed to appreciate it on its own, then don't throw out a 90-minute album for people to listen to upon financial purchase.

 

 

Do we know if Balfe (or Arnold or anyone else) is personally responsible for the album release, or is it a studio obligation? If the former, then as you guys say, this whole line of argument is a sadly disingenuous smokescreen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

Do we know if Balfe (or Arnold or anyone else) is personally responsible for the album release, or is it a studio obligation? If the former, then as you guys say, this whole line of argument is a sadly disingenuous smokescreen.

 

Again, the record release for, say, 'Star Wars' was a commercial consideration from 20th Century Fox to cash in on the expected success of the movie. This didn't prevent Williams from writing several cues for the album and putting a lot of care in editing cues and so on. One doesn't cancel out the other.

 

Of course, i f you have a janitor like Balfe at work, there are no such delusions of grandeur. But to claim this is because of nature's laws is just a wee bit much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said:

Well according to David Arnold, "we don't put out soundtracks, records and film companies do".

 

Well then, if you're aware it'll get an album...why not make it enjoyable to listen to?

 

Just now, publicist said:

 

Again, the record release for, say, 'Star Wars' was a commercial consideration from 20th Century Fox to cash in on the expected success of the movie. This didn't prevent Williams from writing several cues for the album and putting a lot of care in editing cues and so on. One doesn't cancel out the other.

 

 

 

I guess it would have been more accurate for me to ask who is responsible for the album's content? Do composers still have the ability older ones did, such as John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith, to build the album as they saw fit within its presumably-mandated constraints? Because it's really hard to justify the "film scores are meant for film, don't judge it as music" line if the composer is behind putting out an hour plus of music that they implicitly admit is not meant for standalone consumption...I want to make sure I know the angles before I write the dude off, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding album arrangements, I can understand that the composer doesn't want to spend any more time on a score he's not satisfied with and never will be. Then it's better to move on to the next job so he can afford that swimming pool he always wanted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Record labels probably enquire or are sought out as part of the studio's marketing campaign to produce an album. Following Balfe's sentiments, I can understand a score's primary function is to service the film before living a second life outside of the film - this doesn't mean Balfe believes his work is dogshite. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nick Parker said:

Do composers still have the ability older ones did, such as John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith, to build the album as they saw fit within its presumably-mandated constraints? 

 

*I* could have built a better album out of 'Fallout' within half an hour. It's no rocket science. Just that my version probably would have lasted 40 minutes at the most and would have generated outcries and complaints.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×