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The Force Awakens SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion Thread

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As we've done in the past for other big movies, it's time for the SPOILERS ALLOWED DISCUSSION THREAD for The Force Awakens.

The movie had its premiere tonight and its opening wide soon in some European countries. Soon twitter and Facebook and other places will be abuzz with people discussing the movie. I want people to still be able to come to JWFan before they get to see the movie and not be spoiled.

If you see the movie and want to post thoughts in the main thread for the film or the Last Film You Watched thread feel free, but please do not put any spoilers in those places.

Meanwhile, in this thread, feel free to openly discuss the entire movie without spoiler tags.

OK, this is the last chance for people wanting to avoid spoilers to turn away!

Have fun everyone!

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Were we expecting them to do anything other than play it relatively safe?

Star Wars never had much potential to go anywhere in terms of the stories and characters, as far as I can tell. It's simple stories about good vs. evil. The only variation on it was having a fall from grace in the first half of the story and greying up the characters a bit. Maybe the only hope for something really exceptional will be the spin-off movies.

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Personally, I don't mind too much that the story ingredients are very similar to A NEW HOPE. It's like with most 'family sagas' or other mythologies -- these things tend to go in circles to some extent. A lot of the mythology of the original trilogy is also mirrored in the prequels. It's HOW you do it that becomes the attraction.

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Saw the film tonight.

I didn't like it. For me, what killed it is the overall approach of remaking ANH (with elements of TESB and ROTJ thrown in). It truly has most, if not all, of the same plot elements and story beats to the point it becomes embarrassing, very much like Abrams did in the last Star Trek film with Wrath of Khan.

Overall, I think it's an enjoyable action/adventure film done with humor and wit, with the best technical prowess Hollywood can offer. It has some nice classic SW elements that will probably make you feel very nostalgic, but overall the magic is really long gone, sorry. Nothing can replicate that genius spark from 1977. Better accept it and move on.

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FYI, you're welcome to post spoiler-free thoughts in the main Ep 7 and/or Last Film You Watched threads as well if you wish.

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Yes, I know.

It's not like I've been gone forever you know!

Sigh...


Some ruminations.

Story wise this film takes the opposite approach of the Prequels, which was full of exposition that carefully...explained...every...fucking...thing...

So the film doesn't give any careful explanation of how the First Order seized control and why they oppose the Republic. They are simply the new evil. Like the Sith in the Prequels, the Empire in the OT...

With the exception of a single mention of the Sith, TFA really does ignore of disregard the Prequels.

The film doesnt have anything that goes against them though, since they are still part of the canon.

Supreme Leader Snoke seems to be the "new" Palpatine, which would go against the "always there are two" philosophy of the Sith as introduced in TPM, but we will have to see how it plays out.

I wondered why Luke has a metal hand now?


Another new concept is that the Force can be used to extract information from people. Kylo Ren uses it on Poe, and tries to on Rey.

IIn Star Wars Vader used torture to try and extract information from Leia.

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I agree with most of your review, both regarding the film's qualities and flaws.

Supreme Leader Snoke seems to be the "new" Palpatine, which would go against the "always there are two" philosophy of the Sith

How so? There are two here: Snoke and Kylo.

By the way: I thought Snoke was one of the weaker aspects of the film. His introduction was too fast (keeping him in the shadows would have been more effective, methinks), and added yet another villain to a film which already had too many (Ren, Hux, Phasma). Maybe they should have kept his introduction for Episode VIII.

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But...but...if Palpatine died, and Vader...that would be the end of the Sith, since there is no third one.

But Snoke and Ren may not be the Sith.

Trust me, fans will worry about this!

I agree that the film has a few too many villains. Phasma was totally wasted.


Btw, The Rebel Blockade Fanfare is now officially the theme for the Falcon!

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One thing I forgot to mention (and that was probably the only real surprise in the film): they didn't clearly stated whether Rey is Luke's daughter or not. Of course, there are many hints pointing to that, but it's never clearly said, and it could all be one big red herring!

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It wouldnt surprise me. It goes with the whole The Force is strong in our family vibe that this film is rocking.

Yeah, but it's so obvious it makes me wonder if they actually went with that idea...

Another thing worth mentioning: I quite like the new lightsaber fighting style! Feels very raw, clearly showing that the characters using them are amateurs!

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Another thing worth mentioning: I quite like the new lightsaber fighting style! Feels very raw, clearly showing that the characters using them are amateurs!

Yes! A change from the ultra acrobatics of the Prequels

Anyone think that all the stuff with the traders and the Rathtars went on too long? It's nice seeing Han back as a smuggler, but at that point the film needed to move on.

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You lost me at the "At least James Cameron understands how stories work" line.

Cameron is a fantastic director but a very mediocre and obvious writer.


Yoda's voice in Rey's vision, dream whatever. It was OK, but felt too obviously pulled from the OT. Why would she hear Yoda's voice anyway?

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So, based on what I have read here and in some basic reviews, the whole movie is a nostalgia fest made by a fan for fans, where every character has a

corresponding character in the OT, and where every situation has a corresponding situation in the OT. What about originality? Another Death Star. The one in

ROTJ was redundant enough already. And what about the First Order? Just sprang out of nothing? If so, that is a very lost opportunity for political and historical

commentary. Perhaps the next two films will rectify this somewhat.

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ROTJ was redundant enough already. And what about the First Order? Just sprang out of nothing? If so, that is a very lost opportunity for political and historical

commentary. Perhaps the next two films will rectify this somewhat.

Unlike the Prequels the OT was never big on political commentary or historical context. So I'm not surprised the new film follows that.

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Kylo Ren seems to resemble Anakin more then Darth Vader when it comes to his character (to me the two are completely different characters)

Yeah, but he's a better Anakin than Anakin was!

The "little brat frustrated because he's not as good as he'd like to be" role was better played here than in the prequels!

TFA still is a very good movie, just not original in any way.

I'm sure it is. But, maybe it could have been AFI Top 100 good.

It could have never been that good. To expect something like that from a SW film in this day and age is just being deluded!

Why does Star Wars needs political allegory anyway?

Because it makes it feel more mature and relevant!

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Since we now know Kylo Ren is a name that he adopted, I wonder does it stand for anything? Is Kylo a title instead of a first name, like Darth was?

The fact that the character isnt called Darth Kylo Ren or Darth Ren might point to him and Snook not truly being Sith lords.

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Well, he's a Knight Of Ren, so I guess Ren is the title (even if it's a bit weird it come at the end).

By the way, I was wondering about something: what name did Han call him by when he faced him? I thought I heard "Ben" (reference to Obi-Wan!), which I guess was his real name, but after that, I realized he most likely said "Ren".

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