The Force Awakens The Force Awakens SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion Thread

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

And that whole "there is another" thing in ESB, was that meant to be Leia or someone else? The "twin" reveal in RotJ felt like an "oh shit we better address that" afterthought.

[leeallen01 2,133]

No idea. All I know is I've seen archival footage before of him with a much longer story that he chopped and shortened into one. Apparently in the final draft of ANH, they refined it to work as a single stand-alone film in case it did badly and he wasn't able to continue. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It was supposed to be someone else.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No, Anakin Skywalker I believe. Darth Vader was supposed to have lied in TESB.

[leeallen01 2,133]

Luke is so dumb with the whole "Obi Wan Kenobi. Maybe he means old ben kenobi" that I'm surprised he understood Yoda's dying words: "There is another Sky...walk...er"

 

Luke: "I wonder if he means Skywalker. I don't know any one named Skye Walker."

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,287]

43 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

No, Anakin Skywalker I believe. Darth Vader was supposed to have lied in TESB.

 

Yes that is what I remember learning in the 90s as well 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Always seemed like a deus ex machina to me.

[Henry B 50]

2 hours ago, Drax said:

Interesting!

 

Oh no it isn't.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

6 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

 

 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

Just watched it again, this time with the gf. Some notes:

 

I gave it 4 stars last time and now it's edged it's way closer to 5, but Maz and a couple of other minor issues hold it back. Her bar locale and character are poorly realised. A wasted opportunity! Completely forgettable and just a bit bland more than anything. A shame, because it's a major component and ensures the movie can never get full marks. 

 

The entire opening of the movie right up until they get boarded by space mercenaries is 5 stars Star Wars brilliance. Then they visit Maz.

 

The pacing and direction in that first 30 mins are pitch perfect. Exactly what it needed to be. 

 

I think I must be the only person I know who doesn't mind Snoke at all. He's a CG enigma at the moment and that's okay. I'll wait and see how he pans out.

 

A second viewing has made the patricide event feel more natural to me now. I think they get away with it, filmically. I didn't think that at first and initially believed that they should have waited till the sequel before killing him off. 

 

My main takeaway second time around was indeed Kylo Ren. He makes the movie for me now. The character is very well drawn I think... for a Star Wars villain. The modulation in his voice is very carefully done, it's beautifully subtle actually. I hear doubt, weakness and humanity through the mask. People will take that for granted or not even think about it, but I appreciate the extra care taken in both the sound design and performance. Kylo Ren is a worthy Star Wars villain of a quality not seen since Darth Malak.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Uni 306]

3 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

Lucas specifically says he wrote a story which became too long and he split it into 3 acts, and the first act became the first film. You see old footage of him with the full story and then using only the first third initially. You can't argue with video evidence. He had the Original Trilogy all planned. He hadn't written the entire scripts, but the story was all mapped out to a decent degree.

 

First off, you can argue with "video evidence," especially when said evidence is just a guy recalling how things happened. Lucas has memory issues when it comes to this story (or else he's just summing it up so briefly that it doesn't really give the best picture of how it happened). The original treatment and scripts have been making the rounds for years now. His first treatment--Adventures of the Starkiller (yes, that's where they got the name)--told the tale of General Luke Skywalker, who used the FORCE OF OTHERS when he wielded his laser sword, as he goes on galactic adventures with two "bickering bureaucrats." It's nothing at all like any of the Star Wars movies.

 

By the time he'd reached the second draft of his initial script, everything had changed . . . but it still bore little resemblance to the movies we know. Some of the elements are there, though they're mixed up--they attempt to rescue the princess in the Imperial capital, which is a "city in the clouds"--but it's not the "first act" of a longer story, and it certainly isn't epic enough to split into a trilogy. It's also some of the worst writing you'll ever see, something that hadn't much improved three decades later when Lucas went back to writing his own scripts for the prequels.

 

Lucas probably had a large galactic myth in mind when he tried to lay the story out, and there's evidence that some of the ingredients were there from fairly early on. But I promise you he hadn't "planned" anything to the extent you're talking about. He He had some ideas for where the story could go if the first film worked out well enough to beg for a sequel, but that's about it.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

5 hours ago, Drax said:

Interesting!

 

 

Alex Jones and Alex Cremers are the same person, with the same opinions, apparently. Both keep rambling about how this movie is dumbed down! No depth! No subtlety! 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Alex hosts The One Show?

[Uni 306]

53 minutes ago, Lhokne Mulb said:

Alex Jones and Alex Cremers are the same person, with the same opinions, apparently. Both keep rambling about how this movie is dumbed down! No depth! No subtlety! 

 

I especially like the part in the review where they'd allegedly gotten hold of a CIA leak which revealed the government's plan to "dumb the country down" through popular media and movies like this. (In the prequel novels, that's exactly what Palpatine did so he could kick the Empire off without anyone giving a crap. . . .)

[Koray Savas 2,251]

3 hours ago, Uni said:

 

First off, you can argue with "video evidence," especially when said evidence is just a guy recalling how things happened. Lucas has memory issues when it comes to this story (or else he's just summing it up so briefly that it doesn't really give the best picture of how it happened). The original treatment and scripts have been making the rounds for years now. His first treatment--Adventures of the Starkiller (yes, that's where they got the name)--told the tale of General Luke Skywalker, who used the FORCE OF OTHERS when he wielded his laser sword, as he goes on galactic adventures with two "bickering bureaucrats." It's nothing at all like any of the Star Wars movies.

 

By the time he'd reached the second draft of his initial script, everything had changed . . . but it still bore little resemblance to the movies we know. Some of the elements are there, though they're mixed up--they attempt to rescue the princess in the Imperial capital, which is a "city in the clouds"--but it's not the "first act" of a longer story, and it certainly isn't epic enough to split into a trilogy. It's also some of the worst writing you'll ever see, something that hadn't much improved three decades later when Lucas went back to writing his own scripts for the prequels.

 

Lucas probably had a large galactic myth in mind when he tried to lay the story out, and there's evidence that some of the ingredients were there from fairly early on. But I promise you he hadn't "planned" anything to the extent you're talking about. He He had some ideas for where the story could go if the first film worked out well enough to beg for a sequel, but that's about it.

Yes; and as recently as 2010, he wrote this to Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse after the series finale of LOST.

Congratulations on pulling off an amazing show. Don’t tell anyone … but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories — let’s call them homages — and you’ve got a series.

In six seasons, you’ve managed to span both time and space, and I don’t think I’m alone in saying that I never saw what was around the corner. Now that it’s all coming to an end, it’s impressive to see how much was planned out in advance and how neatly you’ve wrapped up everything. You’ve created something really special. I’m sad that the series is ending, but I look forward to seeing what you two are going to do next.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

6 hours ago, Henry Buck said:

 

Oh no it isn't.

 

I knew you'd love it!

[Datameister 2,037]

9 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

Luke is so dumb with the whole "Obi Wan Kenobi. Maybe he means old ben kenobi" that I'm surprised he understood Yoda's dying words: "There is another Sky...walk...er"

 

Luke: "I wonder if he means Skywalker. I don't know any one named Skye Walker."

 

Kenobi is the Star Wars equivalent of Smith, Nguyen, or Martinez! There are billions of Kenobis across the galaxy! How was he supposed to know?

[Wojo 2,453]

You're not far off from the truth, but it's Antilles. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

7 hours ago, Quintus said:

Just watched it again, this time with the gf. Some notes:

 

I gave it 4 stars last time and now it's edged it's way closer to 5, but Maz and a couple of other minor issues hold it back. Her bar locale and character are poorly realised. A wasted opportunity! Completely forgettable and just a bit bland more than anything. A shame, because it's a major component and ensures the movie can never get full marks. 

 

That scene didn't feel like Star Wars. More like a deleted scene from Captain EO.

[nightscape94 965]

Felt completely at home with the rest of the movie and very much Star Wars to me.  Aside from the Rathtars scene, nothing felt grossly or awkwardly out of place.

 

BB-8 agrees with me, don't you BB-8?

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Droid please!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

21 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

 

That article has been posted at least 4 times on the forum!

 

And you actually posted it one hour after someone else posted it! Ha!

 

Yet, despite this making the rounds on the internet for the past week, no on noticed them in the movie. In fact, they weren't even really in it. So what does this even matter?

[publicist 4,643]

18 hours ago, Alexcremers said:

 

Then why don't you give it a try. Surprise me! What is the reason for the crumbling?

 

Quite simply because at this point all the positive expectancy created by the swift-moving first half is crushed - bit by bit - by regressions into derivative replays of old trilogy lore that just is refitted to the new characters, and in case of Harrison Ford not even that. Frankly, why create vast faraway galaxies if all that happens are the same daddy issues, the same 'blow up a new death star' mission etc.

 

Mind you, it's not exactly a dealbreaker but a clear reminder that fanboys and their spell over filmmakers - the fear that middle-aged men need their cozy familiarities - are the bane of any franchise. I'm sure Kasdan has a trunk full of great second halves of TFA that maybe will get out in due time.

[Alex 2,833]

Finally got around to seeing this movie. Apart from some questionnable CGI, the forced humour and the horrible final ending shot, it was pretty good. What I did like though was how it left me wanting more. We really didn't find out that much about any of the main characters. 

[Jay 37,287]

I've heard one other person complain about the "forced humor" too. Well, I thought the humor was great in the film, one of my favorite aspects of it!

[Brónach 1,301]

6 hours ago, publicist said:

 

Quite simply because at this point all the positive expectancy created by the swift-moving first half is crushed - bit by bit - by regressions into derivative replays of old trilogy lore that just is refitted to the new characters, and in case of Harrison Ford not even that. Frankly, why create vast faraway galaxies if all that happens are the same daddy issues, the same 'blow up a new death star' mission etc.

 

Mind you, it's not exactly a dealbreaker but a clear reminder that fanboys and their spell over filmmakers - the fear that middle-aged men need their cozy familiarities - are the bane of any franchise. I'm sure Kasdan has a trunk full of great second halves of TFA that maybe will get out in due time.

 

I can keep Kylo. He's my favourite character along with BB8. But the film really could do with something else replacing the Starkiller. Maybe something about Luke, and the map, and the "first Jedi Temple", you know, something of the sort. Maybe you can insert there too the two climaxes relating to Solo and Rey and Finn and Kylo, even the very good looking snowy forest at night, but with a different, more riveting context.

 

Now, Rey being related to anyone we know would really ruin the big galaxy effect, wouldn't it.

 

I mean "it's about the Skywalkers" doesn't mean the heroine has to be Luke's daughter because it's the rules. They're looking for a Skywalker and we have two other characters in the movie related to the Skywalkers so it's still about the Skywalkers anyways.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'm sure it's been suggested that she's the inbred child of Luke and Leia?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Must be

[BloodBoal 7,538]

5 minutes ago, Drax said:

I'm sure it's been suggested that she's the inbred child of Luke and Leia?

 

Yes!

 

On 16/12/2015 at 5:33 PM, BloodBoal said:

Rey is Luke and Leia's daughter! Ewwww...

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

If I had a twin who looked like Leia in 1983 heh heh heh

[Brónach 1,301]

I imagine Disney will go dumb and make efforts to reexplain and rationalize how Rey could be Luke's daugter for no needed reason.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

There was no mother! I carried her, I gave birth, I raised her. I can't explain what happened.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[leeallen01 2,133]

48 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

There was no mother! I carried her, I gave birth, I raised her. I can't explain what happened.

 

 

That's why Luke didn't take his robes off at the end. This is what he had underneath.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Datameister 2,037]

I want to know more about those shots of Rey making a getaway on her speeder in the first teaser. I really liked that moment and was sad not to see it in the film, even though the film probably is stronger and tighter without whatever scene it was from.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

14 minutes ago, Datameister said:

I want to know more about those shots of Rey making a getaway on her speeder in the first teaser. I really liked that moment and was sad not to see it in the film, even though the film probably is stronger and tighter without whatever scene it was from.

 

When my mum saw that shot for the first time, she said "is Natalie Portman in this?"

 

I really don't think they look that similar.

[leeallen01 2,133]

Just now, Drax said:

 

When my mum saw that shot for the first time, she said "is Natalie Portman in this?"

 

I really don't think they look that similar.

 

 

They don't. She's a slim white girl with brown hair, therefore she is inevitably going to be compared to every actress fitting that description. She is only being compared to Kiera Knightley because she's all of the above plus from London.

 

I think she looks different and her performance is vastly different.

[Andy 4,083]

12 hours ago, E.T. and Elliot said:

 

That scene didn't feel like Star Wars. More like a deleted scene from Captain EO.

Captain EO has more memorable creature designs.  Either that, or you get to see them better with the camera lingering longer on them.  I honestly couldn't see most of the aliens in the Cantina.  Mind you, I've only seen it once.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's hard for me to explain without being chastised because everyone loves this film, but it's one of the many times it felt like satire to me, not the real deal.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Anybody is bothered by Max von sidow's character? Why hire a famous actor to do so short of a scene with almost no dialogue? And we don't know even his name or what he is.

 

The opening crawl tells us he is important... he could be a Jedi, he looked like Count dooku. He says kylo is 'family'. But since he didnt defend himself at all against kylo ren (and then help poe escape...kind of  ben kenobi's death...) he must not be. He could be someone left in jakku to care for rey, in the shadows... (again as ben kenobi)

 

But really he could have been any unkown actor and the film would be the same. He didnt add anything to it...

 

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sigh....

 

The opening crawl clearly states that Luke Skywalker is the LAST Jedi.

 

 

 

He didnt say Kylo Ren was family. He alluded to Ren's real identity.

 

And Von Sydow was very good in a very small role, in a way an unknown actor with less gravitas would not have been.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

i think he said something about returning to family or something...

 

OK. he was good in the role. I dont know why they hyped about casting him so much in advance... when there are lenghtier uncredited cameos in film...

 

But well... the hype of mark hammill was higher... and he appears for seconds without talking...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Did they hype Sydow so much?

 

And JJ loves his misdirection. Why do you think trailers and promo's leaned on Finn with the lightsaber rather then Rey.

[A24 4,326]

 

See! I'm not the only one!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I thought Finn would be the hero and Rey would be his love interest.

[karelm 2,903]

12 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

I dont know why they hyped about casting him so much in advance... when there are lenghtier uncredited cameos in film...

 

Who hyped about casting him?  He was practically never mentioned or shown before the film.  I assumed he would be more significant but he wasn't hyped at all.