The Force Awakens The Force Awakens SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion Thread

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

[Damien F 1,742]

I've read fan theories that Ren will continue to struggle with the light side and eventually abandon the dark side and become good. To me, this is impossible because he killed Han Solo, an unforgivable act.

Vader killed hundreds, or possibly thousands and was still redeemed.

Yeah but they were nameless faceless victims or characters we don't care about like those trade federation guys in ROTS. OK, he killed Obi-Wan but he made the decision to give up the fight.

Han Solo is Han Solo! A fan favorite who clearly wanted to continue living. The fact that he was killed by his own son as he was trying to help him adds an extra sting.

[Quintus 5,399]

Do facts get threads locked? Sorry, I didn't know.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah but they were nameless faceless victims or characters we don't care about like those trade federation guys in ROTS. OK, he killed Obi-Wan but he made the decision to give up the fight.

Han Solo is Han Solo! A fan favorite who clearly wanted to continue living. The fact that he was killed by his own son as he was trying to help him adds an extra sting.

Senseless fanboy theorizing!

[Quintus 5,399]

It was a good scene, but not as powerful as it ought to have been. It needed greater context and time to get there. They should have waited till part II.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

It was a good scene, but not as powerful as it ought to have been. It needed greater context and time to get there. They should have waited till part II.

Agreed.

[Quintus 5,399]

Where's Peter Jackson when you need him!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

Harrison Ford could have boycotted the premiere like Christopher Lee did!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Do facts get threads locked? Sorry, I didn't know.

Safe space! Safe space!

[karelm 2,912]

Han is obviously dead guys. I bet Ford wanted it like this.

He will return. They already established they can bring people back from the dead when Kirk is infused with Khan's blood.

[Quintus 5,399]

Lol

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Chewie's got a girlfriend now!

[leeallen01 2,136]

What do people think was the most impressive shot in the film?

Mine has to be the single shot of Poe taking out troopers on the ground and tie fighters in the air as Finn watched.

In a sarcastic sense, the most impressive shot was Chewie managing to hit Ren from a mile away. I still don't know why he didn't empty his crossbow (ammunition?) At Ren. Could have killed him in 2 seconds.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Either the Apocalypse Now shot, or the sunset shot on Jakku.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

The Han/Kylo bridge scene

[Quintus 5,399]

The X-Wing shot I barely noticed, it was just okay imo. This movie could have used Steven Spielberg's virtuoso camera showboating in places actually.

Quintus - liked the final shot in the movie. Felt new for Star Wars.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I couldn't get into the action scenes. They were a big letdown. Felt really sloppy. Abrams NuTrek action scenes were better than these.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not really. His Trek action was quite a bit worse actually. Apart from maybe the drill scene.

The Bird Of Prey chase in Into Darkness is awful.

The X-Wing shot I barely noticed, it was just okay imo. This movie could have used Steven Spielberg's virtuoso camera showboating in places actually.

Quintus - liked the final shot in the movie. Felt new for Star Wars.

Yes, I loved the Peter Jackson/LOTR style helicopter sweep

[SteveMc 2,674]

Is it really a Star Wars film if Lucas is not the author? Cinematic history will decry Disney and Abrams's Harry Potterization of Star Wars.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Is it really a Star Wars film if Lucas is not the author? Cinematic history will decry Disney and Abrams's Harry Potterization of Star Wars.

People can bash Lucas all they want, and they will, long after he's dead and Jedi funeral pyred, but even the prequels have that Star Wars magic that is largely absent from this flick. It constantly felt like a send-up/imitation of Star Wars, especially once Han and Chewie arrived in what seemed to be a variety show skit.

[karelm 2,912]

I couldn't get into the action scenes. They were a big letdown. Felt really sloppy. Abrams NuTrek action scenes were better than these.

I could have used more character scenes to add weight to the action. So the action scenes were fine, just needing more backstory to help us be more invested in the outcome. I think this film could have benefited for a few more minutes of character building and backstory (NOT exposition ala PT) and I expect these scenes exist and will be a DVD extra. I also could have used a better villain who was more developed and had clearer motivations. It could have been any of the classic villain motives (lust for power, vengeance, etc), I just wasn't clear what the motive was. JJ Abrams did a very good job on such a massive undertaking. The film still worked for me and was quite enjoyable mostly because of the new trio and nostalgia rather than quality. I also have a renewed appreciation for the excellence of the OT.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It was really a stretch for me to root for these characters and care about these situations when it's basically the same stuff from the old ones repackaged with lesser characters.

[Quintus 5,399]

Is it really a Star Wars film if Lucas is not the author? Cinematic history will decry Disney and Abrams's Harry Potterization of Star Wars.

People can bash Lucas all they want, and they will, long after he's dead and Jedi funeral pyred, but even the prequels have that Star Wars magic that is largely absent from this flick.

No... no they don't.

Unless "Star Wars magic" means shite acting, writing and direction.

[karelm 2,912]

It was really a stretch for me to root for these characters and care about these situations when it's basically the same stuff from the old ones repackaged with lesser characters.

I did think Poe was an interesting and distinctive character with a lot of potential...we never saw a reluctant storm trooper before. It's nice to have an innocent young female warrior as a lead. These are variations on archetypes so to me this seems appropriate. Maybe even Han Solo is the wise sage.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I still don't know how to feel about Finn's character, although I do know that I wouldn't have cared if he'd died at the end. I took it that the Stormtroopers in this time are genetically modified/trained from birth. Was this an unnecessary story element? I don't understand if they are all soulless killers because Finn had a personality. But it's implied that he's a fluke. Are we supposed to feel sympathy for the Stormtroopers because they basically have the potential to be good guys, but they are programmed not to be?

[Quintus 5,399]

Must everything in Star Wars movies have a reason and purpose for being? Must everything be explained to the ninth degree?

I get it now: in the prequels, Lucas wrote for the children and the anally retentive Star Wars geeks who inhaled the lore and wider canon.

Lawrence Kasdan wrote for movie goers.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I thought you were putting me on ignore!

[Quintus 5,399]

I never put anybody on ignore, I just say that for effect. It's not difficult to just skip the posts/posters I choose to ignore at any one time.

[Loert 2,511]

A satisfying experience overall. Nothing groundbreaking in terms of the story, although I was half expecting this since it was virtually necessary in order to win the fans over after the prequels. But from a technical aspect, it was awesome, and worth seeing alone for the terrific shots of the Death Star v3.0 laser beam, the planetary landscapes etc.

My main criticism is the fact that it seemed rushed in some places, as in, the scene was over before it fully got going. What comes to mind is the aftermath of Rey's flashback, Rey being offered 60 portions for BB-8, or the lead up to the firing of the laser beam. Or, in fact, everything after the Death Star's collapse, including R2D2 waking up, finding Luke, Rey travelling to the island where Luke Skywalker was...all over in what seemed like 2 minutes! But some other scenes were perfectly paced, such as Han's death, or when we see Rey scavenging for the first time.

There were also some places where I felt the acting fell a bit flat. Some examples: The general's motivational speech to the stormtroopers before the laser beam firing was much too forced and enthusiastic, which made him look out of control and underwhelmed the effect of the whole event. Snoke's line delivery with "Bring.......him.........to.......................me". I thought the acting of Finn's and Rey's characters, however, were very well done.

I think the final scene was a bit too self-indulgent and pompous for its own good. I think there was a certain expectation that the audience would cheer upon seeing Luke Skywalker, but if they don't (which the one in my cinema didn't) the scene comes across as a bit cringey!

Despite these criticisms, it certainly wasn't a bad movie. It does not match the coherency of the OT IMO, but that was hard to do in the first place.

8/10

[Quintus 5,399]

I think General Hux's speech was intended to be hammy, but it did grate a tad, I agree. Still, I liked the character - and the (hopefully) interesting dynamic between him and Ren.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I just want to see the opening scene again and again. It's completely derivative in that you have the map to Luke instead of the Death Star plans being placed in a droid that escapes into the desert, Stormtroopers attacking and a new Darth Vader type killing a guy and kidnapping someone of importance. Yep, same stuff repackaged. But from the moment the crawl began to the escape of BB-8, I got the most Star Warsy feel of the whole thing and the rest of the film never lived up to that. Poe, Lor and masked Kylo were the best of the new characters for me. It felt like a climactic showdown from an epic chapter we never saw in the interim between the trilogies.

[Quintus 5,399]

The one change I'd make to the cracking opening would be to the suspended laser beam shot. Rather than have it hover there the whole time only to be deflected harmlessly into the air, I'd have instead made it so it was unexpectedly redirected into the heart of one of the poor saps who were in the group of executed civilians.

[nightscape94 965]

What do people think was the most impressive shot in the film?

I actually liked the opening shot. Dark against light.

What does balance even mean really? Isnt Star Wars about good versus evil? Good must attempt to destroy evil. Not create a balance with it.

Yeah, I never got that either. Wouldn't balance technically mean the dark and light constantly at odds with each other?

If it turns she isn't a Skywalker, why would that necessarily mean she's just a random person in the galaxy? Are the Skywalkers the only important people in the galaxy?

Things are complicated by the teaser where they rearrange Luke's Jedi speech to Leia so it sounds like he's talking to Rey as a family member. I would rather she wasn't related to them. It would open up the universe a bit from being too Skywalker-claustrophobic

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

What do people think was the most impressive shot in the film?

I actually liked the opening shot. Dark against light.

Not only that but it also serves as a cool metaphor for the First Order slowly enveloping the galaxy.

[nightscape94 965]

Odd that the entire first Act of the previous enumerated film concerned itself with everyone putting everything at stake to preserve this character's life. It's not quite an ALIEN3 (death of all the characters you rooted for in ALIENS), but damn, the gang worked so hard to free Han from Jabba the Hutt.

The hardest part of his death to me was the acknowledgement that after Jedi his life was pretty tragic. Presumably his only son turned to the dark side, which simultaneously ruined his marriage, as well as his friendship to Luke, who went into self-imposed exile, he went back to a lonely lifestyle and then died by his son's hands. Considering all of that upon his death hits me the hardest.

[crocodile 8,000]

Just came back from my second viewing. I liked it the first time, but it felt better after the second one. In those modern blockbusters you've got a lot of stuff shoved in down our throats at breakneck speed, and with all those special effects it's can be sometimes too much. But it went more smoothly the second time.

One thing that bothered me slightly: how does Finn know where they took Rey? He immediately assumes it must be The Starkiller base. Unless, of course, The New Order has only one prime location, it felt bit too convenient.

And I did notice some unreleased music. Most of the good stuff is on the album, save for some small bits and bobs. The X-Wing charge being the most noticeable thing missing.

Karol

[Jay 37,346]

I think that Rey is likely Han and Leia's other child, not because I want her to be or anything, but because in watching the film it felt like, based on the performance by Ford and Fisher, that they at the very least knew more about Rey than they were letting on. Plus the scene where Maz asks Solo who she is and the film awkwardly cut away before we sw his answer.

It's possible she was revealed to be Ren's sister in the original cut of the film and they removed it through editing.

[Bilbo 3,709]

http://makingstarwars.net/2015/12/is-ewan-mcgregor-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens/

This is interesting. I wonder if it means he'll be back as a Force Ghost for Episode VIII.

[Jay 37,346]

Hey that's neat.

[nightscape94 965]

I think that Rey is likely Han and Leia's other child...

I assumed that too, but I thought it would come up when Ren was mind-probing her, or there would be more "tell" on Han's face when he saw her for the first time. Wasn't that Ren's voice during the flashback when we see kid Rey holding someone's hand?

[Jay 37,346]

Child-Rey being left alone on Jakku was a chilling part of the flashback. I have absolutely no idea whose voices were heard during that or who is holding her hand; It was a lot to take in on first viewing.

[crocodile 8,000]

But wouldn't it be a bit evil to have both Han and Leia ignore their kid?

Karol

[Jay 37,346]

Sure. THere's a lot of reasons it doesn't make sense. But I am just going on how Leia and Han acted in some specific scenes.

Of course, she could be Luke's kid, and they both know it.

Actually, come to think of it, that makes more sense.

Luke's trainee Ren turned evil and Luke went into hiding, but couldn't take a child with him, so he had someone drop her off on Jakku.

Everyone's got daddy issues!

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

I think if Rey is anyone's kid, she's Luke's. Maz knew the only thing left for Rey was "Luke," though she never says why. I think we're meant to think she's related to someone, but she isn't at all and I'm quite alright with it.

The one change I'd make to the cracking opening would be to the suspended laser beam shot. Rather than have it hover there the whole time only to be deflected harmlessly into the air, I'd have instead made it so it was unexpectedly redirected into the heart of one of the poor saps who were in the group of executed civilians.

I agree completely.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Child-Rey being left alone on Jakku was a chilling part of the flashback. I have absolutely no idea whose voices were heard during that or who is holding her hand; It was a lot to take in on first viewing.

Thought it was Unkar Plutt's voice. He gets his arms ripped off in the novel by Chewie so we won't be seeing him again.

I think Luke is her father.

Another I am your father moment would fit with what they've been doing so far.

[crocodile 8,000]

Sure. THere's a lot of reasons it doesn't make sense. But I am just going on how Leia and Han acted in some specific scenes.

And, of course, there is that small moment when Maz asks Han "who is the girl?". And they cut away.

One more thing I notice about the film: Is it the first time we see blood in a Star Wars film? People get hurt in this.

EDIT: Oh wait, no. Charlie just pointed out to me there was some in the Cantina scene.

Karol

[Andy 4,118]

Originally, the Cantina scene was shot to be even bloodier:

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

There's no way Luke isn't the father. She's the Luke of this movie, living in the desert with a landspeeder, leaving home, showing good piloting skills, teaming up with Han Solo who offers her a job and the lightsaber calls to her. Just call her Lukene, the bringer of light.

"No. I am your father." - Luke Skywalker, Star Wars Episode VIII

[BloodBoal 7,538]

But that's the thing: it's too obvious! If he is indeed her father, then I just don't see the point of keeping this a secret until Episode VIII.