mrbellamy 6,270 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Lol I see that too. 17 minutes ago, Mr. Big said: If I had a quirk it would probably be my overuse of parentheses. (I use them a lot) I wouldn't know what my quirk would be either, other than I'm fucking cool as hell. I do get the whole "ingratiating" problem. On the other hand I think it only makes sense that we would all notice and respond more to the regular posters. And there's nobody that I just plain skip over. It's just sometimes there's not much to add no matter who's posting, but at least if it's somebody familiar you can more easily make a joke or something. Also I looked at the "Welcome" board and was reminded that we do respond pretty sarcastically to people most of the time but hey, at least the threads are never ignored! We talk about the pub atmosphere a lot...the general vibe of this place is basically one of a bunch of bored, restless John Williams fans sitting around, shooting the shit, waiting for any little piece of news or music. If you happen to walk in the room, you might get a grunt of acknowledgement but otherwise you're just jumping into the waiting game. Maybe I accept that because it reflects my own state of mind when it comes to my favorite composer. Quintus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,473 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Clemensen's review is up and frankly I don't get half of his thematic analysis. He seems to have gleaned a very different set of new themes than what we have established here. Anyone read his analysis yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,637 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'm @MikeTroxell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'm @Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,509 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 8 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: Clemensen's review is up and frankly I don't get half of his thematic analysis. He seems to have gleaned a very different set of new themes than what we have established here. Anyone read his analysis yet? He leaves me utterly confused when talking about minor thirds in the Imperial March and Kylo Ren's theme. What minor thirds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,978 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I think he talks about the fanfare that accompanies Kylo Ren's motif in the opening sequence (not only there). Doug Adams was on about that as well on Twitter. I think it's more likely that Williams is hinting at the Imperial March during Kylo Ren's first appearance on Jakku (the brass triplets) …— Doug Adams (@DougAdamsMusic) December 28, 2015 Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Love those vintage Williams trumpets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,978 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 It's amazing that Williams was able to merge his more recent prequel style with good old vintage Star Wars. For me, it's what makes this score. Karol Quintus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,509 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 8 minutes ago, crocodile said: I think he talks about the fanfare that accompanies Kylo Ren's motif in the opening sequence (not only there). Doug Adams was on about that as well on Twitter. He's talking about triplets, not minor thirds...? I'm still not hearing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Does Clemmensen have any musical education actually? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 From his site: Quote His musical background includes a decade of formal piano training and performance, as well as another decade of study in motion picture scores. That's not much, but way more than I have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 JWFan >>>>>> FSM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> […] >>>>>>>> Filmtracks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 minute ago, TheGreyPilgrim said: JWFan >>>>>> FSM >>>>>>>>>>>>>> […] >>>>>>>> Filmtracks JWFan > Filmtracks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stupid FSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 It sure is convenient that this forum we happen to be on just happens to be better than every other forum based around similar topics! My point is that these distinctions are pretty arbitrary. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I know. We're lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I don't visit Filmtracks, but FSM is a cestpool of negativity. i visited it more then usual during my break here and its a very unappealing place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I don't think Filmtracks is a bad community, on the other hand. They are mostly earnest and positive about their love of film scores. It's just all that weird... stuff that makes its way in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I admire the positivity and enthusiasm of Filmtracks' "Scoreboard". Though certain types of scores are bashed far too often. I also love the troll posts too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 7 minutes ago, Mr. Big said: I know. We're lucky Do we only exist because the conditions of JWFan happen to be just right for us, or was JWFan created, tailored, for us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 It's a perfect synergy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I'd guess the different forum formats attract different people. I find the more structured, neat format of JW Fan preferable to Filmtracks or FSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Structured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Well, I just mean the visual look of things, whereas Filmtracks looks very messy, walls of text and whatnot. The discussions themselves are a different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 True. And the FSM board looks spartan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 2 hours ago, Stefancos said: Yes! Very fitting. Because after all these years the man is still a cypher, an unknown quantity. I am not @CYPHER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,271 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I should change the background color to a different shade of white so your avatar sticks out Hlao-roo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, loert423 said: He's talking about triplets, not minor thirds...? I'm still not hearing it. You're not hearing the similarity of that moment to the Imperial March? Pay close attention to the final measures of the latter - the similarity is very obvious. Compare 4:47 of TFA's first track to 2:52 of the Imperial March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,509 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Yes, both have brass triplets, but what has that got to do with minor thirds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 2 minutes ago, loert423 said: Yes, both have brass triplets, but what has that got to do with minor thirds? Oh, I assumed you meant you didn't hear the similarity of the two segments. My bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I am sure this is a dumb question, but what is a brass triplet? Also, a minor third? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 4 minutes ago, Taikomochi said: I am sure this is a dumb question, but what is a brass triplet? Also, a minor third? Wikipedia is thy friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 3 minutes ago, Alexander said: Wikipedia is thy friend! Wow! Thanks! I never would have thought to try that! .... Anyways, after googling and not finding anything on wikipedia for brass triplets and a little bit regarding minor third progressions that I still don't understand before I made my first comment, I was interested if anyone could give a layman's explanation for those who are not musically trained, specifically in the context of the Star Wars scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,271 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 3 minutes ago, Taikomochi said: I was interested if anyone could give a layman's explanation for those who are not musically trained, specifically in the context of the Star Wars scores. Seconded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Loert 2,509 Posted December 30, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted December 30, 2015 A minor third is an interval (i.e. 'distance') between two pitches, equivalent to three semitones apart. For example, the very first two notes in Rey's Theme are a minor third apart (A and C). A triplet, on the other hand, is to do with rhythm. It's essentially three notes played in the space of two. A brass triplet is just a triplet played by brass. In this case I was referring to the high, loud trumpets playing at around 4:23 of Attack on Jakku Village, which are playing triplets. (NOT the horns, which are playing Kylo Ren's theme). Cerebral Cortex, Quintus, karelm and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Thank you for that explanation. I don't know I would ever be able to hear a minor third, but I will be able to identify brass triplets now in the context of these discussions. Cerebral Cortex and mbrannon47 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,232 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Brass triplets are what came out of my wife about six years ago. mbrannon47 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 1 hour ago, Taikomochi said: I don't think Filmtracks is a bad community, on the other hand. They are mostly earnest and positive about their love of film scores. It's just all that weird... stuff that makes its way in. You don't like reading about the California man caught screwing a Marxist oboe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,159 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 4 hours ago, crocodile said: And that I have a girl's name. Hey, that's my thing! 4 hours ago, Mr. Big said: If I had a quirk it would probably be my overuse of parentheses. (I use them a lot) Hey, that's my thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oboejdub 22 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 brass triplets and minor thirds In the context of themes we know: If you listen to the imperial march, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH6wXaLQIMQ Listen to those fast notes in the accompaniment, in the first two bars. on paper the rhythm looks like this: http://imgur.com/2HQwYie 1 2 takata 3 takata-takakta, 1 2 takata 3 takata-takakta. Those are the triplets that, when played in other contexts, make us think of the imperial march. In the end of the imperial march, the brass are playing those triplets in full force. Throughout the other movies, he often does this to strongly evoke the imperial march, without playing the imperial march. In the Attack on Jakku, he doesn't need to use the imperial march, but those triplets tell you all that you need to know for now. (about 2 minutes into Main Title/Attack on Jakku, again around 4:20 as mentioned) Minor third: the interval between the root note and the middle note of a minor triad. It's one semi-tone smaller than a major third, which would be the interval in a major triad. On a piano, C to E-flat is a minor third. C to E is a major third. There are minor thirds everywhere because a lot of the music is in a minor key (even Rey's music). To me, the minor third wasn't really an identifying characteristic of any particular theme, but it's in there for sure. There are other elements of the imperial march that are so much more distinctive than that. For example, the Imperial march moves primarily between two chords - they are both minor, but they are separated by a major third... The 3 main melody notes of the imperial march ar actually the outline of a major triad, but his harmonization makes it sound more minor then anything else we've heard before. (if you want notes, the melody goes G G G E-flat B-flat G, outlining E-flat major, but the chords accompanying that are G minor and E-flat minor) the minor third in imperial march is the short note coming back to the main note. the "TA DUM" in DUM DUM DUM, DUM TA DUM, DUM TA DUM I wasn't giving a whole lot of thought to minor-thirds in general - maybe he knows a whole lot more about it than I do. I'm certainly being baited into ultra-deconstruction, as he describes it. Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 14 hours ago, Stefancos said: KK! He was was born in it, moulded by it. He didn't see the JWFan light until he was already a man, by then it was nothing to him but BLINDING! Lol how did this blow up so much again? Like I had some old friends from Filmtracks FB message me screenshots of my name in this thread!! I think the petty feud between both communities are based on minute aspects of both "cultures", if you will, blown up to gargantuan proportions to "defend" the supposed "righteousness" of their cause. Yes, I started at Filmtracks; was pretty active there. Occasionally I "lurk", but honestly just don't have the time I used to be able to frequent multiple forums. JWFan is just more suitable for my current needs with film music, music and whatnot. But I stand by that they have a wonderful community of some truly kind and passionate individuals. So sometimes I don't quite get the animosity between these two groups. Christian has the right to his opinions, as does any reviewer, even if I don't always agree with him. And sure he can be verbose, but there is a sincerity and effort in his research, critique and wit that not many other reviewers can attest to. And for pete's sake, many of us writers already know how much work this takes, and this is a man who's basically doing his best while running a family with two kids. I'm sure if every other reviewer received as much scrutiny as he did, you'd be talking about the same problems, if not worse. He's never pretended to be the supreme intellectual when it came to film music. He just tries to sell what he perceives as the strengths and weaknesses of what he hears to those who are getting into this small musical niche. He knows this, and I've seen him say so multiple times. And to his credit, he does it with integrity. But this is Filmtracks, so the natural instinct here is to compare it to scum of course. And sure the formatting is old (though it remains unique, and it's kind of nostalgic), but does that really matter in the grand scheme of things? On the other hand, I consider Kuhni an old pal, but I think he judges JWFan by what little he's seen. And he might be clinging on to grudges that might not be so justified if he really got to know this community and the members behind it. It's a hard place to get acclimated to at first, and conversations like this certainly don't help encourage outsiders, but it remains the best place on the web for intelligent discussion on all things film music. So people of both sides, let's stop presuming things and making claims without really knowing the nuances of either community and get on with what we love doing most. 13 hours ago, Taikomochi said: Haha, if only I was right all the time. But I appreciate that. I feel like members like you, Incanus, and Jay have done a good job lately of involving more people in discussions, despite what I said earlier. Perhaps that is why I have been more involved over the last year, in addition to TFA being released. 14 hours ago, Mr. Big said: It did take a while before I actually felt like part of JWFan. 13 hours ago, crocodile said: The only distinctive thing about me is that is use ellipsis... bit too frequently. And that I have a girl's name. Which, of course, was originally derived from a male name. Karol Haha, it definitely takes a while to become a real part of this community. I know it did for me. Not sure when people started taking me seriously and I'm certainly not sure what makes me distinctive here, but we all eventually get there. And I kind of like that its something you have to work for. It is more "cutthroat", but it also encourages unique thought and discussion which helps bypass all the unnecessary fodder that gets in the way of more meaningful discussion, which often plagues most other forums. I consider it to be the "initiation" phase. Eventually you learn the language and just begin to really click with the folks here. Not Mr. Big and DarthDementous 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Dunno if anyone posted the Filmtracks review. http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/force_awakens.html?mobile=no Very nice. But goddammit Clemmy knows how to ruin a good thing with unnecessary political jabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 28 minutes ago, Drax said: http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/force_awakens.html?mobile=no It's rather laborious, isn't it? There maybe a lot of fans of SW that cherish every extra mile that is devoted to their precious - though i never heard that Williams was incapacitated by heart troubles in the 80's? - so brevity might not be the first order here but why hardly any reviewer is able to put his/her finger on what this score essentially is, namely a melange of other scores of Williams' recent past is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 2 hours ago, KK. said: Lol how did this blow up so much again? Like I had some old friends from Filmtracks FB message me screenshots of my name in this thread!! I think the petty feud between both communities are based on minute aspects of both "cultures", if you will, blown up to gargantuan proportions to "defend" the supposed "righteousness" of their cause. Yes, I started at Filmtracks; was pretty active there. Occasionally I "lurk", but honestly just don't have the time I used to be able to frequent multiple forums. JWFan is just more suitable for my current needs with film music, music and whatnot. But I stand by that they have a wonderful community of some truly kind and passionate individuals. So sometimes I don't quite get the animosity between these two groups. Christian has the right to his opinions, as does any reviewer, even if I don't always agree with him. And sure he can be verbose, but there is a sincerity and effort in his research, critique and wit that not many other reviewers can attest to. And for pete's sake, many of us writers already know how much work this takes, and this is a man who's basically doing his best while running a family with two kids. I'm sure if every other reviewer received as much scrutiny as he did, you'd be talking about the same problems, if not worse. He's never pretended to be the supreme intellectual when it came to film music. He just tries to sell what he perceives as the strengths and weaknesses of what he hears to those who are getting into this small musical niche. He knows this, and I've seen him say so multiple times. And to his credit, he does it with integrity. But this is Filmtracks, so the natural instinct here is to compare it to scum of course. And sure the formatting is old (though it remains unique, and it's kind of nostalgic), but does that really matter in the grand scheme of things? On the other hand, I consider Kuhni an old pal, but I think he judges JWFan by what little he's seen. And he might be clinging on to grudges that might not be so justified if he really got to know this community and the members behind it. It's a hard place to get acclimated to at first, and conversations like this certainly don't help encourage outsiders, but it remains the best place on the web for intelligent discussion on all things film music. So people of both sides, let's stop presuming things and making claims without really knowing the nuances of either community and get on with what we love doing most. Haha, it definitely takes a while to become a real part of this community. I know it did for me. Not sure when people started taking me seriously and I'm certainly not sure what makes me distinctive here, but we all eventually get there. And I kind of like that its something you have to work for. It is more "cutthroat", but it also encourages unique thought and discussion which helps bypass all the unnecessary fodder that gets in the way of more meaningful discussion, which often plagues most other forums. I consider it to be the "initiation" phase. Eventually you learn the language and just begin to really click with the folks here. Judas! JUDAS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 16 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said: Clemensen's review is up and frankly I don't get half of his thematic analysis. He seems to have gleaned a very different set of new themes than what we have established here. Anyone read his analysis yet? He's quite anal, huh. He gave it five stars though. I was expecting him to award only four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,667 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I think he's given all of the SW scores 5 stars, even AotC, which IMO is most definitely not a 5 star score. Clemmension is not a reviewer I rely on for balanced opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 19 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: I think he's given all of the SW scores 5 stars, even AotC, which IMO is most definitely not a 5 star score. Clemmension is not a reviewer I rely on for balanced opinions. He gave ROTS only four stars, complaining about the lack of Luke and Leia theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,667 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 He rated Aotc above RotS? Good God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,637 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I would too. Key word being 26 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,667 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Well, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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