The Force Awakens The Force Awakens - Score Reactions from Reviews, etc

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Agreed!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

43 minutes ago, Drax said:

TFA > Hobbit scores.

 

Yep.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I didn't say that! I said "those shitty" Hobbit scores!

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

1 hour ago, Drax said:

TFA > those well written but mostly dull Hobbit scores.

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

16 minutes ago, Drax said:

I said Hobbit scores!

 

I know.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Smart arse!

[MrScratch 294]

I like the movie very much and I've been listening to this score over and over again but as a whole it really hasn't grabbed me at all.  There are very few tracks that I like, only one that I love. 

 

I like Rey's theme, but it simply doesn't compare to the other major Star Wars themes that have come before it.  I particularly like her theme as heard in "The Abduction".  I do also like "The Jedi Steps" but as with Rey's theme, compared to other comparable Star Wars finales (ESB and AOTC) it pales, though this might have more to do with the personal and subtle low-key moment that the movie ends on*.  I wasn't particularly impressed with the album version of "The Resistance March" but I did instantly fall in love with the FYC track "The Resistance" which is easily the best piece of music from the score (that I have heard outside the movie, at least). I do also like "I Can Fly Anything".  It's the only action cue that has any personality and real drama.

 

There are a number of major disappointments on this score though. 

 

Kylo Ren's theme is completely uninteresting to me, it's simple brief sinister descending 4 note motif could be applied to almost any villain out there.  Ren is the son Han and Leia and grandson of Darth Vader.  Musically, Kylo Ren is (or could be) related to (1) Princess Leia's Theme (2) Han Solo & The Princess (3) Anakin's Theme and (4) the Imperial March... and this is the theme that represents him? Kylo Ren is a FANTASTIC character and Adam Driver is wonderful in the role but I also see that he is not a fully formed villain yet.  Hopefully neither is his theme and if Williams makes it to Episode VIII I hope he finishes working on Ren's Theme. He deserves an epic spectacular theme especially if he is the be the main villain in Episodes 8 and 9.

 

Torn Apart, Ways Of The Force and Scherzo For X-Wings are major letdowns.  I love all these scenes in the movie but on the soundtrack they are ho-hum.  The first time I saw the movie I paid very little attention to the music as I was caught up in the action of the movie but I do remember noticing the music during Han and Ben's scene on the bridge in the Starkiller Base.  I remember thinking to myself that I CANNOT WAIT to hear this piece on the soundtrack.  During that first viewing, what I thought I was hearing was an "Anakin's Betrayal" caliber piece to accompany a wonderfully written and acted death scene with major character development for Ben on top of that.  But it is actually just a very mediocre piece of music.  Ways Of The Force is just generic action music with The Force Theme and Rey's Theme sprinkled in, though I am REALLY glad that Williams didn't use chorus yet again for a climactic lightsaber duel.  Williams' action music (like Scherzo For X-Wings and all other action cues on the disc) has become dull.  It may be fast and it may be complex but it's just frenetic rhythmic orchestral pounding that I just don't find interesting to listen to.  This is something Williams has been doing since AOTC's Coruscant Chase music, a track I have never liked.  Take Luke's Theme out of the Scherzo and it's just repetitive orchestral bumps.  The piece is so similar to Last Crusade's Scherzo for Motorcycle yet very unmemorable.

 

I continue to listen to it and I continue to hope that it grows on me, but even as I get more and more familiar with it I continue to find myself checking to see how much time is left on each track while I listen.  Not a good sign.  I also want to add that in no way do I dislike the score or think that it is bad music and it certainly didn't hurt the movie - which I like more and more with each viewing.  It is just my least favorite Star Wars score.  Easily.

 

*I personally wish the movie would have ended with Rey flying off to find Luke and save his appearance for Episode VIII

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well fuck you and the horse you rode in on!

 

?

 

I personally don't have any issues with the fact that parts of this score arent as "epic" as ROTS. It gives Williams something to work towards. (I retrospect it was probably a mistake to have Duel Of The Fates as big as it is in the first of the Prequels, there's really no way you can go bigger)

 

As for needing Kylo Ren's music to be tied to Han or Leia just sounds like fanboy wish fulfilment to me.

If anything Kylo Ren's "villain" theme is closer to Vader's then any other character, for obvious reasons. His more "tortured" theme however is his own. It doesnt needlessly connect to any other character. It treats him as an individual.

[Jay 37,346]

Sounds like MrScratch hasn't even picked up on Kylo's other theme.

[MrScratch 294]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Sounds like MrScratch hasn't even picked up on Kylo's other theme.

 

I noticed it I just didn't mention it in my post. Ren's appearances in the movie are usually accompanied by the 4-note motif, which is definitely the more prominent of the two. Musically, Ren's theme feels unfinished.  This could be intentional, I hope it is intentional.

[Jay 37,346]

When I saw the film for a second time this week, I actually noticed Ren's tragic theme more than ever before.  I might play in the film more often than the simple theme.

[MrScratch 294]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

Well fuck you and the horse you rode in on!

 

?

 

I personally don't have any issues with the fact that parts of this score arent as "epic" as ROTS. It gives Williams something to work towards. (I retrospect it was probably a mistake to have Duel Of The Fates as big as it is in the first of the Prequels, there's really no way you can go bigger)

 

As for needing Kylo Ren's music to be tied to Han or Leia just sounds like fanboy wish fulfilment to me.

If anything Kylo Ren's "villain" theme is closer to Vader's then any other character, for obvious reasons. His more "tortured" theme however is his own. It doesnt needlessly connect to any other character. It treats him as an individual.

 

I never said the score needed to be epic, in fact I lauded the fact that Williams didn't use the chorus for the climactic duel.

The original Star Wars score is not epic at all, it's rollicking fun and exciting.

I don't think Ren's theme needs to "sound" like any other existing theme, but he definitely needs something more than a generic sinister 4-note riff.  (Yes, I know there is a second theme but of the two which one stands out in the actual movie?)  As I said in my other post, I just wish there was more to it and more memorable.

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

On 1/10/2016 at 1:20 PM, someonefun124 said:

Is there is a Williams score that was instantly universally loved?  The PT scores got a fair share of criticism during their respective releases.  Even the original Star Wars score has its share of haters.  There's even those who don't like E.T. score.

That's something I've really been wanting to ask you guys as I didn't have much of a virtual presence back in 1999: what was the reaction to score of TPM immediately after release?  

[Quintus 5,399]

I can see where Empire is coming from on this, but I am inclined to think Williams isn't necessarily at fault; the movie was altered and rearranged quite a bit towards the end of post production by all accounts, and Williams' musical narrative may have been weakened in the editing process as a result. I love this score, but it isn't a classic Star Wars score by any means, and the movie certainly doesn't help it to stand out. On first viewing, the two best new themes essentially get lost amongst the noise, or worse still hardly feature at all. In this final cut there are no sequences which really showcase the Maestro's newer thematic efforts. And that does disappoint me. 

[MrScratch 294]

I remember being a little disappointed with the TPM score at first, it was not and still is not as good as the OT but it grew on me very quickly and I came to appreciate it as a very good score in it's own right. 

[Quintus 5,399]

Yes. In the end that could end up being the general consensus with TFA as well. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I think Abrams' heart was in the right place and he sure seems to love Williams, but he was ultimately unable to really utilize the maestro to the best of his ability for whatever reason. Even the prequels with their equally terrible sound mixes had many huge moments that really elevated the film and gave you that old Star Wars feeling, and reminded you why you listen to this stuff. Despite their lack of thematic cohesiveness, filler music underscoring a lot of scenes with not much going on and glaring edits, the music played more of a role in those films than TFA. It's interesting, all those crummy Giacchino scores are so prominent in his other films, but Williams' score never really shines in TFA. It's basically relegated to background noise.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

11 minutes ago, MrScratch said:

I remember being a little disappointed with the TPM score at first, it was not and still is not as good as the OT but it grew on me very quickly and I came to appreciate it as a very good score in it's own right. 

 

2 minutes ago, Quintus said:

Yes. In the end that could end up being the general consensus with TFA as well. 

 

When Ep 8 is released people will complain it doesnt have as many instantly hummable themes as TFA did! Mark my words.

 

I distinctly recall in 2002 a lot of people complaining that AOTC only had one new theme.

2 minutes ago, E.T. and Elliot said:

I think Abrams' heart was in the right place and he sure seems to love Williams, but he was ultimately unable to really utilize the maestro to the best of his ability for whatever reason. Even the prequels with their equally terrible sound mixes had many huge moments that really elevated the film and gave you that old Star Wars feeling, and reminded you why you listen to this stuff. Despite their lack of thematic cohesiveness, filler music underscoring a lot of scenes with not much going on and glaring edits, the music played more of a role in those films than TFA. It's interesting, all those crummy Giacchino scores are so prominent in his other films, but Williams' score never really shines in TFA. It's basically relegated to background noise.

 

I've seen TFA in the cinema several times and what you say simply is not true. It's mixed up front through much of the film, much moreso then in the Prequels.

 

Stop lying.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It isn't simply the sound mix. TFA is for me a score that works as a listening experience apart from the film, but doesn't really make much of an impact in the film. 

 

We all know you've seen the film way too many times. Traitor.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

4 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I've seen TFA in the cinema several times and what you say simply is not true. It's mixed up front through much of the film, much moreso then in the Prequels.

 

Stop lying.

 

I think it depends on the theater.  When I saw it in imax, the score was very easy to distinguish and hear.  I mentioned elsewhere, my siblings, who do not like film scores, were nudging me and nodding their heads approvingly at some of the best bits of score.  Then I saw it in a smaller theater and could barely hear anything.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ive only seen it in an IMAX theatre or one with Dolby Atmos.

 

No wait! My 2D showing was in a regular cinema and the score stood out there too.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I guess your regular cinema is considerably less shitty than my regular cinema.

[DominicCobb 194]

4 hours ago, MrScratch said:

 

I noticed it I just didn't mention it in my post. Ren's appearances in the movie are usually accompanied by the 4-note motif, which is definitely the more prominent of the two. Musically, Ren's theme feels unfinished.  

Well, it is a 5-note motif.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

58 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

When Ep 8 is released people will complain it doesnt have as many instantly hummable themes as TFA did! Mark my words.

 

Yep.

 

58 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I distinctly recall in 2002 a lot of people complaining that AOTC only had one new theme.

 

Well, it does!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

True, but there are, I guess, motifs for Anakin, Smee and the villains.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

7 minutes ago, E.T. and Elliot said:

True, but there are, I guess, motifs for Anakin, Smee and the villains.

Sorry, but that was too hard to resist.

[Jay 37,346]

The first time I saw the film in the cinema, it was a 2D showing in a smallish theater.  I noticed the score a few times, but mostly it was buried in the mix.

 

The second time I saw it in IMAX 3D in a proper IMAX theater, and the score was loud and I noticed every note.  It was great because I had forgotten about some cool music that isn't on either CD.

[Balahkay 627]

1 hour ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

That's something I've really been wanting to ask you guys as I didn't have much of a virtual presence back in 1999: what was the reaction to score of TPM immediately after release?  

 

I remember complaints about TPM not having enough of the old themes such as the Force theme.  It was too "new" for some...  history is repeating itself with TFA now.

 

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

I distinctly recall in 2002 a lot of people complaining that AOTC only had one new theme.

 

Too bad it came from Hook!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I remember complaints that the OST didn't contain every note of music that Williams composed, so then they released the Ultimate Edition and made everyone happy!

[Jay 37,346]

Hard to remember exactly, but I feel like it went something like:
 

1. Early reactions when all we had was the OST and hadn't seen the film were mixed, with some loving the new direction and many lamenting the lack of appearances of old themes (especially the Force theme)

 

2. Then the movie opened and people slowly started realizing how much music in the movie was unreleased and how chopped up the album was

 

3. Then the PC video game showed up and I figured out how to extract the music from it and all of a sudden we had many of the highlights we were after (force theme for Qu-Gon at the blast doors, Force theme for Anakin destroying the ship, Qui-Gon's theme for desert duel, etc)

 

4. Then it was just off to the races with each new video game, tv spot, etc all releasing a little more music, and fan edits started coming out assembling all the bits.  By then, most people thought the score was pretty great

 

5. We were all so elated when Sony announced a 2CD set.... then the tracklist was released and hopes were dashed!

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I don't know the tracklist would have worried me that much.  The actual album itself, however...

[Jay 37,346]

True, some held hope that the set would be properly assembled by a real producer, but I took one look at it and knew it was an iso score.

[MrScratch 294]

33 minutes ago, DominicCobb said:

Well, it is a 5-note motif.

*Shrug*

 

It's so unmemorable, I've already forgotten the fifth note.  Been listening to it some more since my original post.  It's more like the danger/conspiracy theme of AOTC.  It's conveys a mood and not a full character.  And a character like Kylo begs for a grand fully developed theme.  He's a dark character being pulled by the light.  1980s Williams would have knocked that one out of the park.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Just now, MrScratch said:

 And a character like Kylo begs for a grand fully developed theme.  He's a dark character being pulled by the light.  1980s Williams would have knocked that one out of the park.

 

*cough* two movies still to go *cough*

[MrScratch 294]

Some of the music works really well in the movie, Finn and Poe's escape at the beginning of the movie really benefits from Williams' music.  Watching that scene in the theater for the third time I was really hit with that music.

[Jilal 569]

16 minutes ago, Jay said:

True, some held hope that the set would be properly assembled by a real producer, but I took one look at it and knew it was an iso score.

 

You assumed, and could have been wrong!

 

If only you were!

[MrScratch 294]

2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

*cough* two movies still to go *cough*

 

I said that earlier, that it feels unfinished and I hope he develops more if he makes it to episode 8.  But there was plenty of substance to the character in this movie alone to warrant a better theme and not a 5-note call signal of danger.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Again, Kylo Ren has two themes, I havent heard you comment on his second one at all.

[Jay 37,346]

He commented on it on the previous page, Steef:

 

5 hours ago, MrScratch said:

6 hours ago, Jay said:

Sounds like MrScratch hasn't even picked up on Kylo's other theme.

I noticed it I just didn't mention it in my post. Ren's appearances in the movie are usually accompanied by the 4-note motif, which is definitely the more prominent of the two. Musically, Ren's theme feels unfinished.  This could be intentional, I hope it is intentional.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Oh fuck off!

[MrScratch 294]

The other part of Kylo's theme, what is there to say about it?  Yes it counts as a theme, and it does no disservice to the movie.  It's moody and brooding, a touch tragic.  Contrasted with the more dangerous 5-note call.  Together they technically fit the character, yes.  Is it interesting to me outside of the movie?  Not really.

 

Do you guys all think Kylo's Theme is one of Williams' great themes?  One of the great Star Wars themes? How do you compare it to the Imperial motif from ANH, to the Imperial March, to the Emperor's Theme, to Jabba's Theme? To the droid federation march? Is it as good as any of those?  I honestly just don't think so.

[Jay 37,346]

I like the score a lot, but I don't think any of the new themes will ever be among my most favorite Williams themes. 

[Wojo 2,453]

I haven't listened to it in three weeks. I don't remember anything. 

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

Thanks for the replies, guys. Have always been curious about the reception of the TPM score in its early days so it was great to hear from some of you about that. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

14 minutes ago, MrScratch said:

 

 

Do you guys all think Kylo's Theme is one of Williams' great themes?  One of the great Star Wars themes? How do you compare it to the Imperial motif from ANH, to the Imperial March, to the Emperor's Theme, to Jabba's Theme? To the droid federation march? Is it as good as any of those?  I honestly just don't think so.

 

At this point I would comfortably place Rey's Theme amongst the best of the Star Wars themes. Over something like Across The Stars or even Anakin's Theme (talk about unfulfilled).

 

But the fact is. if you only ever judge a new Williams score according the standards set by Williams in the mid 70's to mid 80's then you are going to be forever let down.

 

TFA, as great as it is never totally reaches that level. But neither did Philosophers Stone, or The Lost World or Jurassic Park even.

That still doesnt mean I don't bloody love those scores. And I bloody love TFA.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

Thanks for the replies, guys. Have always been curious about the reception of the TPM score in its early days so it was great to hear from some of you about that. 

 

None of the three Prequels scores were initially as well received as they now seem to be regarded. I'm 100% sure the same will apply to TFA.

[Damien F 1,742]

The only theme from the PT I prefer more than Rey's theme is DOTF.

[MrScratch 294]

17 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

At this point I would comfortably place Rey's Theme amongst the best of the Star Wars themes. Over something like Across The Stars or even Anakin's Theme (talk about unfulfilled).

 

But the fact is. if you only ever judge a new Williams score according the standards set by Williams in the mid 70's to mid 80's then you are going to be forever let down.

 

TFA, as great as it is never totally reaches that level. But neither did Philosophers Stone, or The Lost World or Jurassic Park even.

That still doesnt mean I don't bloody love those scores. And I bloody love TFA.

Re-read what I wrote. I compared it to other Star Wars scores, which is legitimate since it's a sequel score and is used alongside previous themes.  Anakin's theme was given a nice concert arrangement and was perfect for the character in that film, it was fully fleshed out for the character from that movie.  I do agree that I wish he'd have done more with it in the next two prequels.

 

I don't only judge Williams scores as compared to his 70s/80s output. I said earlier that I was hoping Torn Apart would be another "Anakin's Betrayal" caliber track - tragic and emotional.  It wasn't, not for me.  Harry Potter, Jurassic Park may not be the all out classics that some of his other scores are but oh man, do they contain some great stuff.  I'm probably the only that thinks this but I hold Fawke's Theme up there with Yoda's Theme, and I don't care much for the rest of the CoS score.

 

I just don't bloody love TFA.  And it's not because I hold it up to his masterworks.  I don't like it as much as the prequel scores, Hook, Jurassic Park, etc.  Music is about feeling and I don't feel much of anything when I listen to this.  I wish I did.  And I'm still really looking forward to Episode VIII.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well your loss. I prefer it to the Prequel scores. Mainly because it's a lot more emotional, and a more cohesive score. Also finally theme new character them,es actually fir the people they are written for, which wasn't always the case with the Prequels (I like General Grievous's theme, but it has nothing to do with that stoopid character. Same for Anakin's...)

 

And while I've warmed to what John Williams was trying to do for ROTS, I still don't get nearly the amount of emotion from it that others seem to. Very effective music, but also quite hollow. More patina then content.

 

I've struggled with most of JW's scores in the last decade. I wanted to love ROTS but didnt. really wanted to love KOCS but can't. Tintin is very good but missing something, as was War Horse.

 

Whatever those scores don't have, TFA does!

 

 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

23 minutes ago, dfenton85 said:

The only theme from the PT I prefer more than Rey's theme is DOTF.

I'm not really a big fan of that one to be honest.  Especially not in its wholesale regurgited form in the latter 2 prequels.

[KK 3,307]

On 1/7/2016 at 5:59 PM, steb74 said:

I think he's talking about the counter melody under the string 'elegy' line which plays the first part of the Han and Leia melody and also matches what's happening on screen as it plays when we see Leia's 'force sensed' reaction to Han's death.

 

On 1/7/2016 at 6:23 PM, Marian Schedenig said:

Exactly. It screamed "Han Solo and the Princess" to me when I first saw the film, and the spotting fits as well.

 

On 1/7/2016 at 6:29 PM, Sharky said:

Wow. G#4->A4>C#5? I hear it now. If the theme were in Ab, it would also be part of the second phrase. A->G#>A>C#->G (over A) resolving to Ab, the tonic.

 

-

 

Is it me or is "Han and Leia" in Torn Apart? At 2:14, I keep hearing a twisted variation of that melody on the horns, probably to accompany the fall.