#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 You still defend him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 8 minutes ago, Drax said: Filmtracks will probably spend 15 enormous paragraphs rambling on about how it offers nothing innovative, but it's fine if you want to revisit familiar territory in the composer's bag of tricks. And maybe four stars. And to add insult to injury, he'll note the 2015 Giacchino scores' "superiority"! After all, they have far more moments of epic tonal bombast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan 689 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I've listened to the OST a bunch of times now and seen the film twice. While I was never disappointed with the music, as some seem to have been, the description of this score being a "grower" is definitely accurate. For me, it's gone from being a fairly solid if slightly more subdued Star Wars score to being an absolute knock-out. Highlights for me have been Rey's theme - it's a breath of fresh air and seems unlike any other Star Wars theme to me. I also love Kylo Ren's motif, perhaps especially as it appears in the first track with the extra brass flourishes as his shuttle lands. The Jedi Steps is possibly my favourite Star Wars finale to date and I can't wait to hear what Williams might do with this theme in future. I think the whole thing sounds amazing too. The recording and mastering is so clear without sounding harsh. Best sounding score I have heard in a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 5 minutes ago, Stefancos said: You still defend him? I don't really enjoy his reviews anymore, because we both clearly look for different things now in the music (as evidenced by some of his "stranger" opinions). But what he does still works well enough for his target audience, so I'm not going to really engage in trash-talking him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 His tastes are even more limited then mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 6 hours ago, KK. said: When it comes to Williams or Desplat, Pope's enthusiasm is boundless, sometimes amusingly so. It's to be expected. Hehe, I just noticed Austin Wintory sort of "called him out" on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 6 minutes ago, alan1984 said: I can't wait to hear what Williams might do with this theme in future. I hope so so much Mr. Williams will (be able to) score SW8!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 2 minutes ago, Stefancos said: His tastes are even more limited then mine! I wouldn't say that. He's definitely more open-minded than some of the old coots here. But some of the principles he judges music by are rather outdated. But I guess if you see it as him arguing from the perspective of someone just getting into film music, it's a fair way to go, especially since that's largely the target audience for Filmtracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 5 minutes ago, KK. said: I don't really enjoy his reviews anymore, because we both clearly look for different things now in the music (as evidenced by some of his "stranger" opinions). But what he does still works well enough for his target audience, so I'm not going to really engage in trash-talking him. He can be lazy and I wonder how much he actually listens. His Star Wars OT reviews all pretty much say the 1997 SEs have the best sound quality and I think mentioned that the RotJ OST had the worst. Dafuq?! Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I was reading through the comments on Pope's post (https://www.facebook.com/conrad.pope%20/posts/10207505550589853?pnref=story) and found these exchanges with interesting bits of information: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondo 33 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Anyone get a little Michael Kamen Die Hard/Lethal Weapon vibe in "Kylo Ren Arrives at the Battle" around 1:20? It only lasts for about 14 seconds, but I love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFifthBeatle 1 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 can somebody please talk about Maz's Counsel??? It's gorgeous!!! or what about the marevellous rendition of Han And Leia??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Second half of Maz's Council is really sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Love that secondary part of Rey's theme that is utilized at the end of that track, plus in a few other select spots of the score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I realized something - this is one of the few Star Wars OSTs where the first track only contains music from the opening of the film, and doesn't jump forward to other stuff midway through! Star Wars -> Jumped to the End Credits Empire -> Jumped to the Mynock Cave cue Phantom -> Jumped to a later Naboo cue (oi, its been a while now, I forget what scene it is!) Clones -> Jumped to some Kamino cues This is only the third one after Jedi and Sith to only feature music from the opening! And its really cool music too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,911 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I like how Starkiller (a gorgeous cue!) sounds like vintage JW. First 36 seconds of this from Close Encounters: and this... Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 4 hours ago, Jay said: Phantom -> Jumped to a later Naboo cue (oi, its been a while now, I forget what scene it is!) It jumped to the arrival at Coruscant cue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klavierart 1 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Hi, this is my first post here! So happy I`ve found the JWFan Community! I`ve managed to read this thread and have my two cents to tell. I watched the movie twice ( at the same day ), then first thing I`ve done was playing Rey`s Theme on the piano. I`m happy, that we have original piano cue in SW score. Ok, it is short, but still nice. Second thing was buying the soundtrack. I can`t stop hearing it! I got chills every time on flute solo in Scavenger, the whole Rey`s Theme with it elaboration along the soundtrack is absolutely amazing. I loved the March of the Resistance from the appearance in the movie ( and this night I must get it under my finger including fugue part ). I like Action/Finn`s theme alot. There`s mindblowing 11/16 ( or 6/8 + 5/8 ) meter! Sound a little like Prokofiew to me. And Torn Apart is so tragic and intimate. I have never listened to a SW score from beginning to the end, but TFA got me. It is just perfect for me! I have a question though. I read, that Kylo Ren has two themes. The "evil" one ( e-d#- g#-b-d# ) and the "tragic" one ( e-e-e-e-d#-d#-c ) Is the second one not the First Order Theme? Or second Kylo`s theme is something different? Another one question I have regarding Jedi Steps, but it can contain spoiler. Where is the spoiler thread? karelm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 20 minutes ago, klavierart said: Where is the spoiler thread? http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25882-the-force-awakens-score-in-the-film-discussion/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie 45 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 1 hour ago, klavierart said: Hi, this is my first post here! So happy I`ve found the JWFan Community! I`ve managed to read this thread and have my two cents to tell. I watched the movie twice ( at the same day ), then first thing I`ve done was playing Rey`s Theme on the piano. I`m happy, that we have original piano cue in SW score. Ok, it is short, but still nice. Second thing was buying the soundtrack. I can`t stop hearing it! I got chills every time on flute solo in Scavenger, the whole Rey`s Theme with it elaboration along the soundtrack is absolutely amazing. I loved the March of the Resistance from the appearance in the movie ( and this night I must get it under my finger including fugue part ). I like Action/Finn`s theme alot. There`s mindblowing 11/16 ( or 6/8 + 5/8 ) meter! Sound a little like Prokofiew to me. And Torn Apart is so tragic and intimate. I have never listened to a SW score from beginning to the end, but TFA got me. It is just perfect for me! I have a question though. I read, that Kylo Ren has two themes. The "evil" one ( e-d#- g#-b-d# ) and the "tragic" one ( e-e-e-e-d#-d#-c ) Is the second one not the First Order Theme? Or second Kylo`s theme is something different? Another one question I have regarding Jedi Steps, but it can contain spoiler. Where is the spoiler thread? I feel like the second Kylo theme you mention is more like a tragic theme for the loss of Ben. I think it's played once in a scene with Han and Leia discussing him, but I can't be sure. Also just FYI the main Kylo motif actually has a descending augmented 4th not a perfect 5th, so as in your example (g# minor), the first note would actually be d# and the second is c double sharp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Finn's theme by Jerry Goldsmith really gets is your head, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Finn's Theme > Ren's Theme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Goldsmith hater! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,135 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Not sure if we can talk about Spoilers here, but SPOILER!! I too believe the Kylo Ren's two themes serve very different purposes (even though they are relatively similar). His main villainous theme is clearly for his evil actions, whereas his secondary theme is a more tragic, more desperate motif that chronicles his final fall into darkness. It does play tragically in the piece 'Han and Leia' at 3:44 which I believe is the scene where Han says to Leia that "I saw him, Leia. I saw our son." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Is it possible the sad/tragic theme is Kylo Ren's theme, and the more simpler villainous one is actually a theme for the First Order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,135 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Just now, Jay said: Is it possible the sad/tragic theme is Kylo Ren's theme, and the more simpler villainous one is actually a theme for the First Order? Not really. There are very specific moments where Ren arrives or does something and his main first theme plays. E.g. when he is walking alone fast down a hallway, when he arrives on Jakku and when he arrives at Maz's bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Yes. It is specifically a theme for him. Does the First Order really need a theme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Probably not, at least not yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,135 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I think Williams (if he returns) will drop his secondary tragic theme moving forward, considering what happened with him, and his main villainous theme will take most of his weight, and will develop into a long form piece with more evil bells and whistles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Well it's not uncommon for Williams to drop, or significantly reduce the use of themes for a new chapter of the story. We might not see some of the new themes like The Resistance March again in future instalments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 If Williams scores all 3 episodes, I expect all the TFA themes to return, at least in Episode 8. Rey, Finn, Poe - they're all still around The Resistance - still around Ren's 2 themes - depends on where they take his character, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 It's possible. but... The droid theme from TESB, gone from ROTJ Boba Fett's theme, gone after TESB The Imperial Theme, replaced by The Imperial March after Star Wars. Leia's Theme, severely reduced use after Star Wars, more or less replaced by 2 other themes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 797 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 5 minutes ago, Stefancos said: It's possible. but... The droid theme from TESB, gone from ROTJ Boba Fett's theme, gone after TESB The Imperial Theme, replaced by The Imperial March after Star Wars. Leia's Theme, severely reduced use after Star Wars, more or less replaced by 2 other themes. You can add Anakin's Theme to that list... How often did it appear after TPM...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,135 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I think Rey's, Poe's and the Resistance March are basically 100% returning themes. Finn may earn a melodic theme rather than the action motif, and Kylo Ren will continue with his main theme in a grander, more drawn out way. I think Luke will adopt a new theme (perhaps the Jedi Steps theme as his new spiritual master theme) and will rarely, if ever really go back to using the main titles for himself. And BB-8 will adopt the Imperial March as his ringtone. 1 minute ago, Sandor said: You can add Anakin's Theme to that list... How often did it appear after TPM...? I understand that fully though as it was more of a childish wonderment theme, which wouldn't have fit Ep2 and 3, though it did return in subtle moments in Ep 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 797 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 7 minutes ago, leeallen01 said: I think Rey's, Poe's and the Resistance March are basically 100% returning themes. Finn may earn a melodic theme rather than the action motif, and Kylo Ren will continue with his main theme in a grander, more drawn out way. I think Luke will adopt a new theme (perhaps the Jedi Steps theme as his new spiritual master theme) and will rarely, if ever really go back to using the main titles for himself. And BB-8 will adopt the Imperial March as his ringtone. I understand that fully though as it was more of a childish wonderment theme, which wouldn't have fit Ep2 and 3, though it did return in subtle moments in Ep 2. As I understood, the original idea was to have the theme morph from an innocent piece into something more dark, possible even The Imperial March by the time we reach the climax of ROTS. A wonderful concept which never came to be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klavierart 1 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 14 hours ago, Bowie said: I feel like the second Kylo theme you mention is more like a tragic theme for the loss of Ben. I think it's played once in a scene with Han and Leia discussing him, but I can't be sure. Also just FYI the main Kylo motif actually has a descending augmented 4th not a perfect 5th, so as in your example (g# minor), the first note would actually be d# and the second is c double sharp. 1 hour ago, leeallen01 said: Not sure if we can talk about Spoilers here, but SPOILER!! I too believe the Kylo Ren's two themes serve very different purposes (even though they are relatively similar). His main villainous theme is clearly for his evil actions, whereas his secondary theme is a more tragic, more desperate motif that chronicles his final fall into darkness. It does play tragically in the piece 'Han and Leia' at 3:44 which I believe is the scene where Han says to Leia that "I saw him, Leia. I saw our son." I suppose, both of you are right. Now I see. Ben = tragic theme, Ren = the evil one. For me it is even more tragic with both descending semiton first and aug. 4th ( thanks, Bowie, my bad. In the End Title both of theme from the 4.28 are in c#minor, so it is g# f## c# e g# ) So it is like I can ask here, no such big spoiler here. I feel Jedi Steps like new Old Luke or Hermit Luke theme. It is very distinctive, soft and sad. I feel nervous about second flute rendition of it. It is not a "blend", it is a clue for me. There could be strings or french horn only, but no, there Rey's flute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewya 360 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 What about Snoke, do we think he will drop the voices heard here for Episode 8 and go for something more substantial when we actually see him and not through a hologram? I still want to know the lyrics for Snoke, they could actually reveal something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,135 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Yeah I believe Luke will have a new theme (The Jedi Steps) as his Master teacher theme and wont revert back to the main titles. Just now, Lewya said: What about Snoke, do we think he will drop the voices heard here for Episode 8 and go for something more substantial when we actually see him and not through a hologram? I still want to know the lyrics for Snoke, they could actually reveal something! I think there is a definite on purpose intention of connecting Plagueis and Snoke musically. So he will develop the sinister ancient sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 3 hours ago, leeallen01 said: Not sure if we can talk about Spoilers here, but SPOILER!! I too believe the Kylo Ren's two themes serve very different purposes (even though they are relatively similar). His main villainous theme is clearly for his evil actions, whereas his secondary theme is a more tragic, more desperate motif that chronicles his final fall into darkness. Spoiler It does play tragically in the piece 'Han and Leia' at 3:44 which I believe is the scene where Han says to Leia that "I saw him, Leia. I saw our son." Oy! At least use spoiler tags! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 *edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 1 hour ago, BloodBoal said: Oy! At least use spoiler tags! Just testing it still works. [/spoilers] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Drax dies at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 4 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: Hidden Content Maybe he already is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Wait, Stefan, the ESB droid theme does not appear in ROTJ? What about 'Rendezvous on Tatooine'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,336 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 "Rendezvous on Tatooine" definitely doesn't use the TESB droid theme. The TESB droid theme doesn't appear anywhere in ROTJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 13 minutes ago, Drax said: Hidden Content P.S.: Great. Now, when you quote a post with spoilers in it, it just replaces the spoiler with the text "Hidden Content". This new version just keeps on getting better and better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concazur 0 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Hi everybody, newbie here. John Williams is a big part of my love for SW.....but I'm not a scholar in classical music. Question for all the soundtrack experts here Could the theme starting at 0.41 here be the same beautiful theme starting at 0:26 of the same trailer and at 1:12 of The Jedi and Steps and Finale ? Could the trailer version be a more intense, heroic version of the the theme vs the more sinister version heard in the official soundtrack. I think the "The Jedi Steps" theme will be more prominent in the next 2 movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Psycho Pianist 216 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 On 22/12/2015 at 2:52 AM, bondo said: Anyone get a little Michael Kamen Die Hard/Lethal Weapon vibe in "Kylo Ren Arrives at the Battle" around 1:20? It only lasts for about 14 seconds, but I love it! I too love those 11/8 scurrying string passages. Indeed, I love the 11/8 usage throughout the score - works so well at highlighting tension and the odd meter draws your attention more to the music during the film also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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