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The Force Awakens ALBUM Discussion (No Film Spoilers)


rebekahnoelleparker

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2 hours ago, Concazur said:

Hi everybody, newbie here.

 

John Williams is a big part of my love for SW.....but I'm not a scholar in classical music.

Question for all the soundtrack experts here

Could the theme starting at 0.41 here be the same beautiful theme starting at 0:26 of the same trailer and at 1:12 of The Jedi and Steps and Finale ?

Could the trailer version be a more intense, heroic version of the the theme vs the more sinister version heard in the official soundtrack.

I think the "The Jedi Steps" theme will be more prominent in the next 2 movies.
 

 

You mean the part from 0:41 to 0:49 might be part of the Jedi Steps theme that we haven't heard yet?  Interesting possibility and it does sound like a build up of the "Jedi Steps" theme.  The chords are E major to C# minor back and forth with a horn line but after 0:49 it is Empire Strikes Back when Yoda raises the x-wing from the swamp here:

 

(one of the greatest mystical and musical moments in the entire series imho)
 
That specific 0:41 to 0:49 wasn't in the film nor the soundtrack but might have been from the trailer specific sessions. 
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24 minutes ago, karelm said:

 

You mean the part from 0:41 to 0:49 might be part of the Jedi Steps theme that we haven't heard yet?  Interesting possibility and it does sound like a build up of the "Jedi Steps" theme.  The chords are E major to C# minor back and forth with a horn line but after 0:49 it is Empire Strikes Back when Yoda raises the x-wing from the swamp here:

 

(one of the greatest mystical and musical moments in the entire series imho)
 
That specific 0:41 to 0:49 wasn't in the film nor the soundtrack but might have been from the trailer specific sessions. 

 

Yes....I thought that the music from 0:41 to 0:49 might be a heroic version of the "Jedi steps" theme.

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Alright these last few pages have made me desperate for Williams to score at least Episode 8. We NEED to hear how he treats the development of themes from 7:

 

March of the Ren (Imperial March-esque version of Ren's theme)

Snoke's Theme (evolution of Snoke, more Emperor's Throne Room-esque)

The New Jedi theme (based off Jedi Steps)

Finn's Theme (evolution of his 5-note motif)

Reappearance of Luke and Leia theme

 

And it would really elevate the power of TFA score if it retroactively proves to lay the thematic foundation for an even more lush intricate thematically evolved score for Episode 8.

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4 minutes ago, E.T. and Elliot said:

Some people believe that Williams has spoiled the identity of Snoke by composing a piece similar to Palpatine's Teachings.

Nonsense.  The male choir is clearly singing "Snoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooke".

 

It has nothing to do with Darth Plagueis.  

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10 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Well it's not uncommon for Williams to drop, or significantly reduce the use of themes for a new chapter of the story. We might not see some of the new themes like The Resistance March again in future instalments.

 

It's pretty unlikely that he would take a major theme that was intended to be memorable that represents the entire Resistance and dump it.  It will, of course, depend entirely on the story line for VIII.  It certainly could be reduced if and only if the Resistance isn't utilized in any way.  If Poe is used more as a central character than his theme will certainly come back.

 

15 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Still not a huge fan of it. It's one of the lesser thematic ideas in the score.

 

Finn's theme is a bit single-minded in this score.  It's used a few times in action-only oriented scenes, so you don't quite get the full scope of its possible range or usability.

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It's crazy to think that Snoke has a concert version of his theme but The Force still doesn't. From the OT to the prequels and now the sequels, surely you would think he would have written one by now. It would be a popular one at concerts.

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Athematic low male chorus constitutes as a concert piece now? It doesn't appear to have any structure or melody in the OST but maybe I'm just not hearing the minor details of the track.

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Well, "concert arrangement" might be the wrong terminology, but the track by that name on the OST isn't the film cue.  It's either an alternate, or something recorded specifically for the album.  I doubt it'll ever be played in a concert, for obvious reasons

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I get the impression Snoke was like Azog in The Hobbit, one of the last things to be approved and finished. The final design in the film just strikes me as unrefined, so I wouldn't be surprised if they approached the character in a variety of ways musically before settling on the restrained approach.

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1 hour ago, dfenton85 said:

It's crazy to think that Snoke has a concert version of his theme but The Force still doesn't. From the OT to the prequels and now the sequels, surely you would think he would have written one by now. It would be a popular one at concerts.

 

I get the feeling he doesn't want to. Because, like you said, in nearly 40 years there hasn't been anything to stop him and as far as Star Wars themes go it's one of the most iconic. Maybe he prefers to just have the theme exist within the context of the scores.

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1 hour ago, crumbs said:

I get the impression Snoke was like Azog in The Hobbit, one of the last things to be approved and finished. The final design in the film just strikes me as unrefined, so I wouldn't be surprised if they approached the character in a variety of ways musically before settling on the restrained approach.

On that same line of thought, I saw the music for Snoke as more of a place holder. I think we'll get a real theme in either VIII or IX.

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4 minutes ago, DominicCobb said:

On that same line of thought, I saw the music for Snoke as more of a place holder. I think we'll get a real theme in either VIII or IX.

 

The long, drawn out lines we got for this film could easily be compressed into something more like a "real" theme….

 

Time is always relative, even in music!

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Is there a discernible melody or theme in the Snoke cues? It could well be hidden.

 

I'm more inclined to think Williams was satisfied introducing two ideas for Ren and waiting until the next film to create something sinister for Snoke, hence the fairly run of the mill material in TFA.

 

After all, Vader didn't get his theme until V and the Emperor until VI, despite both characters being introduced in prior films.

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One of the most enjoyable tracks to listen to has got to be Scherzo For X-Wings. It's pretty fun, sounds to me as if the Main Title was composed for an Errol Flynn swashbuckler. Only one thing, something rubs me sort of the wrong way about the first time we hear Luke's theme, like it goes against the melodic progression. Now, I'm no music guy, so I have no idea what I'm talking about, but it just sounds sort of awkward to me. And, if I'm being honest, I'm not sure if any of the statements of Luke's theme really feel like they completely fit. Wouldn't the Rebel fanfare have fared better here? Or how about Poe's theme, which is fantastic but doesn't show up nearly enough in the score?

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Kylo Ren's Badass Arrival Theme has turned into a surprising ear worm for me. 

 

Especially love it paired with the Imperial March-esque fan fare in the opening track, which has also significantly grown on me. 

1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said:

So how many trailers featured Williams music that most people thought that it was just 'trailer music'?

 

Thinking about 'jedi steps' for example...

 

 

 

 

The music for the final trailer was also clearly inspired by the first part of Jedi Steps. 

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8 hours ago, DominicCobb said:

One of the most enjoyable tracks to listen to has got to be Scherzo For X-Wings. It's pretty fun, sounds to me as if the Main Title was composed for an Errol Flynn swashbuckler.

 

I've heard some people complain about the tempo, but I think it works fine.  Not everything needs to be lightening quick.  One of my favorite tracks; it most definitely has a drive, with some great lower brass writing.

 

8 hours ago, DominicCobb said:

And, if I'm being honest, I'm not sure if any of the statements of Luke's theme really feel like they completely fit. Wouldn't the Rebel fanfare have fared better here? Or how about Poe's theme, which is fantastic but doesn't show up nearly enough in the score?

 

I feel Luke's theme has always been a point of contention or confusion.  It's more or less doubled as the main theme for the Series as well as the character.

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17 hours ago, Mr. Big said:

 

Nonsense.  The male choir is clearly singing "Snoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooke".

 

It has nothing to do with Darth Plagueis.  

 

Right.  Snoke has nothing to do with Darth Plagueis or the Sith.  This is has been confirmed by the filmmakers.  All of that is in the past where it should be.

4 hours ago, king mark said:

just Jedi Steps and the first teaser...

 

Was it confirmed if Williams music appeared in that Star Wars ride?

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2 hours ago, someonefun124 said:

 

Right.  Snoke has nothing to do with Darth Plagueis or the Sith.  This is has been confirmed by the filmmakers.  All of that is in the past where it should be.

 

Yes of course. Because they'd definitely confirm a spoiler for a future film... 

 

Film makers NEVER lie to us, especially about the secret identity of a character. The studio and J.J. never lied when he was making Star Trek Into Darkness. Because Khan wasn't in it of course. As we were told for months.

 

I'm not saying he is Plagueis (I believe he is) but saying "the film makers said he isn't" as an excuse is weak.

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14 hours ago, DominicCobb said:

Yeah I noticed that, but I was sort of thinking if it was used along with the Tie Fighter Attack motif it could work.

 

That's basically what Finn's Theme functions as. 

 

Very similar rhythmic idea. 

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18 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Ugh, how about that almost inaudible synth doubling the harp in The Scavenger.  So gorgeous.

 

On a related note, there's quite an audible synth pad used somewhere, but I can't really recall where precisely.

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Where on the OST are Finn's themes and Poe's themes?  I'm pretty sure I figured out Finn's, but I haven't figured out what Poe's theme is.  Can anyone give me a timestamp as to where these themes are?  Thanks.

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51 minutes ago, Demodex said:

Where on the OST are Finn's themes and Poe's themes?  I'm pretty sure I figured out Finn's, but I haven't figured out what Poe's theme is.  Can anyone give me a timestamp as to where these themes are?  Thanks.

 

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25879-the-thematic-material-of-the-star-wars-saga-possible-community-project/&do=findComment&comment=1201923

 

&

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25879-the-thematic-material-of-the-star-wars-saga-possible-community-project/&do=findComment&comment=1208164

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3 hours ago, Demodex said:

Where on the OST are Finn's themes and Poe's themes?  I'm pretty sure I figured out Finn's, but I haven't figured out what Poe's theme is.  Can anyone give me a timestamp as to where these themes are?  Thanks.

 

As far as I know, Finn's theme is basically...

 

2015_12_25_02_16_37_untitled_2_Sibelius_

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4 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

There's an almost Hornerish women's choir pad during Rey's theme in the credits I think. 

 

Yeah, the first time I heard that I thought it was static in the right channel.  When I listened with headphones it became a bit clearer.

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16 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

 

As I see it, it's simple: it was basically just Luke's theme in the first film, then turned into the main theme for the saga from ESB onwards.

 

A bit like Ben's theme -> the Force theme (though one could say that theme already had a double use in the first film).

Don't forget Leia's theme doubling as the Death of Obi-Wan theme.

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I love how this CD release continues to grow on me. The first time I listened to it, although I enjoyed it, I wasn't quite "hearing" all of it. It was like I was listening too fast in a sense, and I must admit I was listening as much for what wasn't there as what was. Now that I've seen the movie and listened to both the CD release and FYC album many times, I just enjoy and appreciate the score so much more. Before the action music lacked identity, and although I still skip past the Rathtars track, the other action cues sound a lot more cohesive and entertaining. And the development of Rey's theme throughout is just fantastic. Listening across different sound set ups really helps too. Right now I'm listening to the CD with some really sweet headphones and I hear so much more. I love the process of digesting a new JW score. 

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You know what track I find totally unrewarding?  "The Girl with the Staff."  That and "The Rathtars!" are truly the weak point of the album, but at least "The Rathtars!" features a few memorable thematic statements.  "The Girl with the Staff" has Rey's theme and... I have listened to it many times, but I can't remember the rest of the track at all.  I can't fathom why Williams chose to include that piece over so many other possible moments to include on the album.

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I think "The Girl with the Staff" works really well in the film. The way the horns despairingly play those low notes is incredibly effective within the scene.

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