Jump to content

The Force Awakens SCORE Discussion (Film Spoilers Allowed)


Thor

Recommended Posts

Orchestration by John Williams and William Ross.

So Williams didn't do all the orchestrations himself? And Ross did some orchestrations, but none of Williams' usual orchestrators did any?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, it is first film in god knows how long where Williams is credited as an orchestrator. If not a first?

Karol

Yes, I noticed that, too. Although I haven't actually seen the film yet and am just going off the information in dead_lizard's post. Can anyone else who has seen the film confirm that, indeed, Williams and Ross are listed as orchestrators in the credits, and also that they are the only people credited for orchestrations?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just came back from the film. I thought the score was gorgeous, exactly what I expect from Williams.

There were three instances I particularly liked:

1. The brass just after the main titles, when the Star Destroyer covers the planet in the background. Not to mention the extra flourish when the smaller spaceship emerged from behind, which sent shivers down my spine!



2. The low horns in the scene where Kylo Ren is being told that BB-8 escaped. That was a particularly great build-up in the score.

3. The frantic trumpets when Death Star v3.0 collapses and you see the X-Wings enter hyperspace. Terrific playing from the orchestra there.

My only real disappointment (and it's a very superficial one) is the performance of the Main Titles. In particular, the first notes could've had a much bigger punch, like ESB or the prequels. Instead, the entrance sounded a bit tinny and I was slightly underwhelmed.

I am currently downloading the soundtrack album, which I will listen to many times over before forming a more thought-out opinion of the music itself. For now, though, it's two big thumbs up from me! thumbsup.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have preferred Han's Theme to be used for the Falcon than the Rebel Fanfare, personally.

Yeah, true, it would have been nice to hear that theme get more of a workout. I don't think it would have fit the escape from Jakku scene at all, though, since Han isn't present.

Han has a theme..? What have I missed..?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does Snoke material appear only in one scene? Hard to say,

Anyway, if we can count this and Jedi steps melody as themes, rhen I counted ten of them altogether.

Karol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can anyone else who has seen the film confirm that, indeed, Williams and Ross are listed as orchestrators in the credits, and also that they are the only people credited for orchestrations?

The credits in the film itself are the same as on the CD:

Music By John Williams

Orchestrated by John Williams and William Ross

Conducted by John Williams and William Ross

Special Guest Conductor Gustavo Dudahmel

Does Snoke material appear only in one scene? Hard to say,

Anyway, if we can count this and Jedi steps melody as themes, rhen I counted ten of them altogether.

Karol

Nope there are two scenes. The first is after the Rathtars scene, and that one sounds like the "Snoke" OST track.

The second one is chronologically in the film where teh "Snoke" OST track is (so somewhere between Han and Leia and On The Inside, but it was a shorter scene that I don't think was the Snoke OST track, I think it was an unreleased cue based on the same material.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does Snoke material appear only in one scene? Hard to say,

Anyway, if we can count this and Jedi steps melody as themes, rhen I counted ten of them altogether.

Karol

Snoke appears twice or so in the film, with the Snoke material. But honestly, I think its the same cue repeated twice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what themes are there? Rey,Finn, Poe, two Kylo Ren motifs, the Resistance, the two note (chord) map motif, Snoke, the tragedy theme... and Jedi Steps (which seems bit too important not to be included).

Karol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what themes are there? Rey,Finn, Poe, two Kylo Ren motifs, the Resistance, the two note (chord) map motif, Snoke, the tragedy theme... and Jedi Steps (which seems bit too important not to be included).

Karol

There's also the First Order 4-note motif..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what themes are there? Rey,Finn, Poe, two Kylo Ren motifs, the Resistance, the two note (chord) map motif, Snoke, the tragedy theme... and Jedi Steps (which seems bit too important not to be included).

Karol

There's also the First Order 4-note motif..

Is the the ominous brass fanfare from the opening sequence?

Oh, Marcus, since you're here... Are those two chords we hear when Luke is revealed the same motif that plays in association with the map and BB-8 (and R2)? If so, it's just a fantastic payoff.

Karol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what themes are there? Rey,Finn, Poe, two Kylo Ren motifs, the Resistance, the two note (chord) map motif, Snoke, the tragedy theme... and Jedi Steps (which seems bit too important not to be included).

Karol

There's also the First Order 4-note motif..

Is the the ominous brass fanfare from the opening sequence?

Oh, Marcus, since you're here... Are those two chords we hear when Luke is revealed the same motif that plays in association with the map and BB-8 (and R2)? If so, it's just a fantastic payoff.

Karol

The First Order motif is first heard during the opening sequence at ca.01.47; b3-2-4-b5, played by horns over a string ostinato.

The chords for Luke's reveal are indeed related to the Map/Mystery/Droid(s) motif. The harmonies themselves are somewhat inconsistent, though: Sometimes, the chords are a tritone apart, whereas at other times, they are a major third apart (as in Jedi Steps).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of people in the audience sat through the credits to hear the score. :)

Sadly, I think most of the people were waiting for a post-credits scene.. But the End Credits were amazing, probably the best ones since ESB. Love all the themes, and I love the end with Luke´s "Home Alone "theme

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the film proper, the two themes that pop the most are Rey and March Of The Resistance. The latter is absolutely badass, like sick badass. Its one of the most masculine and military themes written by Williams. When the X wings come from the resistance and the theme plays, I was like... wow look the swagger of the music for the heroes. Its superb.

And Rey's theme of course popped as the primary identity of the score. The theme is memorable for sure. Right from its first appearance with Rey, it was always played whenever she did something heroic or just appeared.

One instance which stood out when Finn is desperate and wants to save her after Ren has captured Rey, he runs towards them and the theme played. In that moment I thought that Rey's Theme could double as a love theme for Rey and Finn too IF they have a romance which seems likely.

But yeah these 2 were the stars of the show.

Kylo Ren's and Poe's and Finn's theme kinda slipped off the screen in the film itself. Doesn't really pop. Even Snoke's theme the way it was mixed sounded like source music with people sitting in the background and wailing.

So really looking forward to more Rey and Resistance - both magnificent ideas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One instance which stood out when Finn is desperate and wants to save her after Ren has captured Rey, he runs towards them and the theme played. In that moment I thought that Rey's Theme could double as a love theme for Rey and Finn too IF they have a romance which seems likely.

I hope not. Williams seemed consciously aware not to write an overtly romantic theme for the female lead. Her theme has a spine and smacks of adventure in its purest form. The wonderful thing about the theme is that it can also be used to portray the entire emotional range, but I would hate for it to become a love-ish theme representing more than just Rey.

Would much rather he write a separate theme for that, should it happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was hard for me to hear the music in many of the action scenes because of all the sound effects. Anyone else have that problem?

Yes, the Scherzo for X-Wings especially suffered from being buried by engine noises.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/19/2015 at 5:13 PM, RuBen_Kenobi said:

Sadly, I think most of the people were waiting for a post-credits scene.. But the End Credits were amazing, probably the best ones since ESB. Love all the themes, and I love the end with Luke´s "Home Alone "theme

 

I'd definitely agree with this. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Saw the film a second time and ugh, this score is just incredible! Really nailed me emotionally this time. Also while I couldn't fully enjoy certain things the first time -- especially the action music -- because I was noticing the things he wasn't scoring ("Oh that would have been a cool shot for a big musical moment!"), this time I just let Johnny do the talking and I was pretty much floored. I love this man!

 

The one minor issue that I noticed and I think may play some sort of a part in people not catching onto it the first time is I think this film probably missed out on just one or two more full statements of Rey's Theme. The first six notes get a LOT of use in this film with some great variations, and I'm okay with the catchy little rhythmic motif only introducing the theme at the beginning and end of her journey, but I still feel like it maybe needed another full sweeping statement somewhere to sink it in. The descending second phrase to complete it gets slightly short shrifted here, I think, mostly only getting very quiet variations. I think we get three big statements, one for the Jakku montage, one for Rey's abduction, and one for the journey to find Luke. And these are all huge memorable moments and nicely spread out, but I just felt like I wanted one more full statement at some point in the lightsaber fight. He just sticks to those first 6 notes and I wanted to hear it completed at least once there. Or just somewhere else where it would have been really noticeable. But in the grand scheme of things, I'm more than satisfied with his choices. And I may very well change my mind on even this point as I become more familiar with the score.

 

And I just gotta say, I really love it in the end credits. Something about those high flutes suddenly announcing themselves fits absolutely perfectly with the starry background :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

And I just gotta say, I really love it in the end credits. Something about those high flutes suddenly announcing themselves fits absolutely perfectly with the starry background :) 

 

Reminds of when Will Smith sees space for the first time and Arnold makes a gentle and magical sounding statement with the chimes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

The descending second phrase to complete it gets slightly short shrifted here, I think, mostly only getting very quiet variations.

Yes, this. I think the reason people find it so hard to pick up on the theme the first time through the film is because its very first appearance in The Scavenger makes that awkward cut to the rising B section without finishing the A section with those descending lines.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, it's true that the theme is truncated in The Scavenger and that may also be part of it, but in a broader sense I'm not even talking about going that far into the theme. I just literally mean the first 12 notes together are not played in a noticeable arrangement often enough in the film to where you can really forge a connection with it, so I think he honestly makes it kinda hard to pick up on it solely over the course of a single viewing of the film. It's just the first 6 notes that get the starring role, and I don't think they're distinctive enough to easily catch the ear on their own esteem. I'm not sure why. I just think that first phrase needed to be completed a little more often, A) because you get that satisfying sense of resolution and B) the grace notes going down the scale help add a little extra something to catch the ear. Instead Rey's musical identity is primarily limited to only the first 6 notes throughout the film and I'm not sure that was enough to make the big immediate impression right off the bat. I think you kinda have to know the theme by heart going in and listening out for it to make that connection. 

 

And once you do, the effect is immense and this won't matter so much in a few years' time when repeat viewings are factored in and you can also (hopefully) add on the statements in Episodes 8 and 9, but I think that's why this score seems to have generally flopped on the first viewing for lots of people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

Well, it's true that the theme is truncated in The Scavenger and that may also be part of it, but in a broader sense I'm not even talking about going that far into the theme. I just literally mean the first 12 notes together are not played in a noticeable arrangement often enough in the film to where you can really forge a connection with it, so I think he honestly makes it kinda hard to pick up on it solely over the course of a single viewing of the film. It's just the first 6 notes that get the starring role, and I don't think they're distinctive enough to easily catch the ear on their own esteem. I'm not sure why. I just think that first phrase needed to be completed a little more often, A) because you get that satisfying sense of resolution and B) the grace notes going down the scale help add a little extra something to catch the ear. Instead Rey's musical identity is primarily limited to only the first 6 notes throughout the film and I'm not sure that was enough to make the big immediate impression right off the bat. I think you kinda have to know the theme by heart going in and listening out for it to make that connection. 

 

And once you do, the effect is immense and this won't matter so much in a few years' time when repeat viewings are factored in and you can also (hopefully) add on the statements in Episodes 8 and 9, but I think that's why this score seems to have generally flopped on the first viewing for lots of people.

I see what you are saying. Might happen with general audiences for sure.

 

But frankly didn't happen with me at all. I had admittedly heard the theme track before the film so when I saw it I picked out almost all of its statements in the film.

 

But it can be a slippery theme due to its complexity for the general audience. Its very refinement make it less easy to remember and comprehend for general audiences.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

I just literally mean the first 12 notes

Ooooh, I see, just those notes. Yes, I agree the first 6 notes are meandering and don't grab you on its own. If they're isolated, it just sounds like a Close Encounters reject.

 

I saw the film cold without listening to the score and in Rey's first scene, as soon as the strings made their downward run and the horns entered at 1:31 and Rey took off on her speeder across that wide shot of the desert, I said to myself, "Aha, this is her theme!" I loved the dramatic entrance of it—it was like the whole movie was telegraphing with all of its being, "Here it is! Listen!" But by the end of the movie, I'm kinda ashamed to say I still couldn't hum it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I think it's a beautiful theme but I'm just not sure how distinctive it is in those few notes. You know exactly what it is if you're looking for it, but I think it kinda needs the whole 12 note phrase to really catch the ear. At least for me, it's a "call-and-response" type thing and feels incomplete without both. Not that there aren't moments where the 6 notes work fine standalone, but I think we could have used more reminders of the "response" part of it.

 

I remember the 60 Minutes special playing a bit of "Ways of the Force," and you get The Force Theme followed by those 6 notes on the horns coming in with the high suspended strings. It was very dramatic and immediately stood out to me, but it never occurred to me that they were playing the main theme of the movie. It just sounded like an intense rising figure. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a very chameleonic theme. I was conscious that I was hearing something throughout the film but I couldn't latch onto the melody. I kept expecting to hear "The Jedi Steps," which we thought was Rey's theme, so that distracted me as well. During my second viewing, by which time I had listened to the album several times, the themes were clear as day. Not just Rey's, but Poe's heroic fanfare, the March of the Resistance, all that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The destruction of the Starkiller base through Rey's hyperspace trip in the Falcon.  I believe there is a bit of music in the middle cut out for the album, but I believe it is heard elsewhere in "Rey Meets BB-8."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.