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What does everyone think of 'March of the Resistance'?


DarthDementous

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I think this piece is so much better than everything else he's done in this same vein.  Like I already said it's always been one of his least interesting modes for me, but this is a massive exception.

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3 hours ago, Bowie said:

lol well my laptop is out for the count at the moment so I had to resort to more traditional methods (if taking a photo and uploading from one's phone can be considered traditional).

 

Come on, no one uses pencil and paper anymore.......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WilliamsBNR.png

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Sometimes I get March of the Resistance stuck in my head, but it always shifts over to a different melody there.  I finally realized what it was - The Flag Parade from TPM.  Anybody else see a similarity between these two pieces?

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3 hours ago, Jay said:

Sometimes I get March of the Resistance stuck in my head, but it always shifts over to a different melody there.  I finally realized what it was - The Flag Parade from TPM.  Anybody else see a similarity between these two pieces?

 

This is happening to me constantly. I'll be humming the March, and then realize that I transitioned into that ascending brass section of Flag Parade (say, 00:13-00:22 of that cue).

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4 hours ago, Jay said:

Sometimes I get March of the Resistance stuck in my head, but it always shifts over to a different melody there.  I finally realized what it was - The Flag Parade from TPM.  Anybody else see a similarity between these two pieces?

 

Yes, it is quite similar. Obviously both are based off some popular folk song in the Star Wars universe.

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Again, it draws from a lot of Williams' marches, so it isn't so surprising that it might remind you of a couple of others. 

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I love the march more with each listen. Especially hearing it scattered here and there before the big main march piece. Like how it's teased innocently in 'Rey Meets BB-8.' It's stuck firmly in my head now along with many of his others from the previous 6 films, including his Droid March played throughout the prequel trilogy, which is a favourite of mine. (And that always flows in my brain uncontrollably into his villain march from The Last Crusade too)

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8 hours ago, armorb said:

 

This is happening to me constantly. I'll be humming the March, and then realize that I transitioned into that ascending brass section of Flag Parade (say, 00:13-00:22 of that cue).

 

I segue it into the droid invasion music from TPM in my head from time to time.

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On 12/22/2015 at 1:38 PM, Bowie said:

 

 

For those interested, this is what I was referring to by an additional statement of the theme before it ventures off. 

gzUjatBh.jpg

As it's currently written it still feels unfinished as a melody.

 

Actually seeing it written out as a "normal" theme with that kind of A statement just makes me like the way he did it even more.

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10 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

 

Actually seeing it written out as a "normal" theme with that kind of A statement just makes me like the way he did it even more.

How do you figure?

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The reason it is written as it is, is that the theme is intended to serve as the subject of a fugue.

As such, the theme consists of a number of prominent motifs that get a good work out in the concert arrangement (and feature significantly as leitmotivics throughout the underscore).

Had the theme been longer and more "complete" in shape, it would have been much less malleable in countrapuntal terms.

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Hi everyone! I'm new here, but I'm a lifelong Star Wars fan who loves to research behind-the-scenes stuff :)

 

The more I listen to the TFA soundrack, the more it seems different from the previous Star Wars pieces. It sounds fresh, but also closer to the "real" classical music than to the film scores. I feel like there's more to this score than Holst or Stravinsky or Newman influences; 'The Resistance March' sounds like it's from the XIX century, not XX, but I can't quite tell why. Sadly, I lack conservatory education to analyse classical composers' orchestration and harmony. Maybe you can give me some tips where to look for the possible sources of inspiration?

 

To have something to start with, I tried to write the March down, basing off your photo, and found some curiosities - like an augmented 4th (I actually had no idea it was legal in classical music), phrases ending with sharp 7th, LOTS of key changes and that pseudo-Phrygian motion in bars 20-21. I only did the beginning before starting to lose rhythm, but I hope this will be helpful - or maybe some of you will have some ideas which composers to research. I tried to google the use of augmented 4th, but it seems like it's a part of some larger harmonic patterns, and that's an area where I'd appreciate some tips... Thanks in advance!

Resistance_March.mscz

Resistance_March-1.png

 

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On 29 December 2015 at 1:28 AM, Marcus said:

The reason it is written as it is, is that the theme is intended to serve as the subject of a fugue.

As such, the theme consists of a number of prominent motifs that get a good work out in the concert arrangement (and feature significantly as leitmotivics throughout the underscore).

Had the theme been longer and more "complete" in shape, it would have been much less malleable in countrapuntal terms.

I don't agree. The fugato (it's not really a fugue), as is, would work fine either way. The overall structure of the piece is fine, with appropriate development and truncation here and there, but I'm just saying, personally, I feel the theme sounds truncated already; he doesn't establish the same solid melodic foundation he does in basically all of his other marches and indeed theme suites in general. It's not "wrong," it just doesn't sound "inevitable" in my opinion, which is something he is known for.

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It sounds inevitable enough to my ears. But its fugal nature does naturally imply a certain element of truncation (fugato/fugue is simply a matter of overall formal scheme).

 

There's a reason why Bach's subjects are typically short; longer, more sing-songy subjects are usually unwieldy, and one typically ends up truncating them in the process.

 

I think Williams set himself this particular challenge right from the start, and composed the material accordingly. As with any good fugal subject, it's all about getting the motivic "hook" right, and I certainly think he does.

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The augmented 4th may have been disallowed in early vocal music fof voice leading purposes, but those rules hardly apply anymore.

even Bach back in the 1700s redefined and twisted the rules in such incredible and progressive ways, you'd see tritones and wicked modulations that others would not dare. With the tritone, he's kind of implying an F7 leading us to B flat, a harmonic pattern that is entirely traditional within g minor, although he may not actually complete the chords in the orchestra. The melody ending on the leading tone is part of the cadential figure. On those two eighth notes we get a iv-V (c minor-D major), and the bass instruments use their little run to give V-i, a very standard cadence. The harmonies are surprisingly traditional throughout this piece, and stylistically it stands out from the rest of the soundtrack. I am reminded of romantic composers writing a fugato in the development section of a symphony movement, and in that sense i agree with 19th century influences. Because this is a concert version and not just a movie cue, it means the form and structure are self-contained, not interwoven with on screen action. I'm trying to continue the transcription... got most of the way into the fugato

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 12/20/2015 at 0:38 PM, Stefancos said:

It's just fucking awesome!


Absolutely. Probably one of my favorite bits of the entire film is when Han says "It's the Resistance!" and then it cuts to the X-Wings flying across the water with The Resistance cue blaring. It's one of those moments that is so brilliantly scored that you just want to get up out of your seat and yell "HELL YEAH!" (as is the case most times when both Star Wars and Williams are firing on all cylinders). 

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2 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:


Absolutely. Probably one of my favorite bits of the entire film is when Han says "It's the Resistance!" and then it cuts to the X-Wings flying across the water with The Resistance cue blaring. It's one of those moments that is so brilliantly scored that you just want to get up out of your seat and yell "HELL YEAH!" (as is the case most times both Star Wars and Williams are firing on all cylinders).

 

Must confess when that moment happened, the sight of the X-wings skimming the water I thought of Harrison Ford's exclamation in Air Force One when the US jets arrive: "The good guys are here!"

 

Glorious moment musically (in Force Awakens).

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I love how Williams develops the march through the film. Like in 'Rey Meets BB-8' you hear an innocent little snippet that ties BB-8 to the resistance, then you hear it more serious and militarised in 'Han and Leia' and then it becomes it's full self in 'March Of The Resistance.' Great thematic development. 

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14 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Actually, in the film that short snippet is used in Maz's place, for when a droid reconized the group and alerts the Resistance. 

 

There is is no connection to BB-8

 

Do they not say they have found the droid? And that woman doesn't she also say that they have found the droid that the first order is looking for? Not sure but I thought that scene was still about the recognition of BB-8.

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6 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:


Absolutely. Probably one of my favorite bits of the entire film is when Han says "It's the Resistance!" and then it cuts to the X-Wings flying across the water with The Resistance cue blaring. It's one of those moments that is so brilliantly scored that you just want to get up out of your seat and yell "HELL YEAH!" (as is the case most times both Star Wars and Williams are firing on all cylinders). 

 

Yeah, but no one noticed the score and it isn't memorable and Hans Zimmer should have scored it, right?

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4 hours ago, E.T. and Elliot said:

 

Yeah, but no one noticed the score and it isn't memorable and Hans Zimmer should have scored it, right?


I think that's the main thing we all should ultimately take away from this discussion, absolutely. 

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Quote

This is a romantic era convention of emphasizing the tonic by dancing around to heighten the impact when we ultimately land on it resulting in an increasing level of climactic build up.

Thank you! That's what I was hoping to learn - harmonic patterns of certain periods and composers. Now I see why the middle part of the March sounds so dynamic, and also why I couldn't hear a third (C/C#) in the first chords of the March. It's all there in the 9th! Maybe Beethoven (and his era) is the influence I was looking for :)

Quote

The melody ending on the leading tone is part of the cadential figure. On those two eighth notes we get a iv-V (c minor-D major), and the bass instruments use their little run to give V-i, a very standard cadence.

I tried to harmonize the first bars a bit, using the bass line (tubas?) and your explanations as a reference. The Iv-V-I cadence fits perfectly, though I believe there might be a substitute (VI-V-I). You're right, the beginning sounds so traditional that after harmonizing bars 12-14 I thought I was listening to "The Pianists" by Saint-Saens :) Now I'm beginning to understand why...

Quote

With the tritone, he's kind of implying an F7 leading us to B flat, a harmonic pattern that is entirely traditional within g minor, although he may not actually complete the chords in the orchestra.

That's the part I didn't quite understand. How does a d-c#-d move (or even с#-c-c# in further variations) imply F7 (f-a-c-e)? I'd expect something to support the first eighth (probably a tonic in the first case and maybe A major in the second case which would be a nice transition to B flat). B flat is there in the bass line, but what I hear is a straight transition from Gm to Bbm.

Attached is some further progress on transcribing the March (got to ~1:24 and tried to make sense of the harmony a bit). Can you show us your version so that we could check and combine our results? :)

Resistance_March.mscz

March of the Resistance-1.png

March of the Resistance-2.png

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31 minutes ago, loert423 said:

Recheck measures 12-14. The actual cadence used is not so obscure.

 

If you figure that out, measure 18 should become obvious too.

Hmmm... Unfortunately, I know little about musical tradition (which cadences are traditional and which ones are obscure) - that's why I came here in the first place. I'll try to figure it out though... I can't help but hear b-c-a-f# in the bass line in 11-13. If we're still in E minor by that point, that's V-VI-IV-II. The only substitute I can think of without violating the TSDT rule is VII instead of II (D major) - and that really does sound better!

Now the 18th is trickier... The bass line gives us D-Bb, which is V-III, but I can't put D or Bbm there because of the E flat in the leading voice. Maybe I'm wrong about the bass line (it might be C-A), that can give me that F7.

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6 hours ago, Sithoid said:

Hmmm... Unfortunately, I know little about musical tradition (which cadences are traditional and which ones are obscure) - that's why I came here in the first place. I'll try to figure it out though... I can't help but hear b-c-a-f# in the bass line in 11-13. If we're still in E minor by that point, that's V-VI-IV-II. The only substitute I can think of without violating the TSDT rule is VII instead of II (D major) - and that really does sound better!

Now the 18th is trickier... The bass line gives us D-Bb, which is V-III, but I can't put D or Bbm there because of the E flat in the leading voice. Maybe I'm wrong about the bass line (it might be C-A), that can give me that F7.

 

No no no, forget rules...you need to identify the pitches correctly first.

 

Do not deduce harmonies from bass notes alone. Do not treat bass notes as root notes. D-Bb does NOT imply V-III. B-C-A-F# does NOT imply V-VI-IV-II. Erase that notion from your brain.

 

Firstly, get the right hand runs between measures 12-14 right, because they're the most obvious.  That will help in identifying the left hand.

 

Now, the 18th is easier...trust me. Get the bass notes right, and hopefully that will help you make sense of the chords in the bass at measure 19.

 

Finally, if you're going to make an arrangement of this piece, you should make the fugato a fugato.

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here's my go at it. Got to the end of the fugato exposition (if that's the right descriptor).

 

I am sure I made mistakes (particularly inner voices) and some of my writing is a little disorganized (when 3 voices are moving at once it's tough), and I feel like there must be some suspensions or something that I missed during the last D minor bit.

March_of_the_Resistance.pdf

march resistance 1.png

march resistance 2.png

march resistance 3.png

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I'd say that most of his stuff is more complex harmonically and rhythmically than this. but the advanced counterpoint stuff only shows up occasionally.

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20 hours ago, crumbs said:
20 hours ago, crumbs said:

Wowserz, that's complicated. Was any of his writing in the OT so complex?

Wowserz, that's complicated. Was any of his writing in the OT so complex?

 

Absolutely!  JW balances thematic simplicity with structural complexity. 

 

A few vintage examples:

 

(starting at around 2:35 to the end for some serious writing)

(0:24 seconds in)
...alot of other examples but you get the point.
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This theme is ridiculously bad-ass in its first big statement. It immediately caught my attention in the theater and I loved (finally) listening to it on the FYC for the first time today.

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Yep. While I would actually argue that a lot of the score is most certainly modern, or post-1990 Williams in sound and Rey's Theme is very Potter-esque, the Resistance March is the Williams that did Black Sunday or the NBC News music. The villain theme (or motif?) is reminiscent of Williams of that era as well. It's for me what contributes to making this score incredibly fascinating, for as derivative and unremarkable as much of it is, it's like a ridiculously entertaining eclectic hodgepodge of Williams styles from different eras.

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Yeah, count me in as another huge fan of this track!

 

It really reminds me of Qui-Gon's theme and the type of track that Williams could have written for him had he been featured and developed more.
Many elements of Rey's theme also remind me of Qui-Gon too ....maybe she's his granddaughter? ha :D

 

I quickly threw the track up against the final lightsaber fight between Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Darth Maul and for me there's almost an infinite improvement in the energy of the scene.

 

https://vimeo.com/150551798

 

I've never been a fan of this particular fight and while I'm a fan of Duel Of The Fates as a piece of music it doesn't really fit my aesthetic of SW, except for a handful of times and in particular when it's used during the destruction of the Trade Federation ship and elements of it play alongside the force theme.

 

For me DOTF is the wrong music for the scene, add that to the over the top choreography and I just feel no excitement or tension, too light and balletic.

 

MOTR though with its fugue style works wonderfully for me, the independent musical voices working together or against each other makes so much more emotional and dramatic sense  ....dare I say that this scene might actually feel a little exciting now and worthy of a little emotional investment, I never thought I'd say that!!!

It's just a shame that as the music is reaching some of its glorious peaks the bloody energy shield kicks in!

 

 

 

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The Resistance theme is one of my favorite elements of the new score. And story wise I think it's really interesting that this time around the (ostensible) good guys have their own march. Traditionally in Star Wars the bad guys get the marches, be it the Trade Federation or the Empire. The good factions get the shorter motifs but here it is the other way around. It's a salient reflection of the the way the galactic powers are setup in the films. 

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