Michael Giacchino - STAR TREK BEYOND (2016)

[Jay 37,287]

I think this should answer all your questions

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/17627-michael-giacchinos-star-trek/

 

[Arpy 4,145]

I think Into Darkness works a more unifying experience as a score. It has the central theme for Khan playing around the main themes and also the theme for Marcus. Beyond feels like a score that hasn't had any time to develop the new themes excepting the main one. That isn't to say it's a weak score, and it's my impressions from the album as opposed to the full score. There is something bugging me though and it is becoming more persistent in film scores in general is the fact it must compete with the sound effects. There's portions of dense action music that just get lost in the sound effects which is a shame, just like in TFA with the Scherzo for X-Wings.

[publicist 4,643]

3 minutes ago, RPurton said:

That isn't to say it's a weak score

 

It is a weak score. Just like the movie.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

50 minutes ago, RPurton said:

I think Into Darkness works a more unifying experience as a score. It has the central theme for Khan playing around the main themes and also the theme for Marcus. Beyond feels like a score that hasn't had any time to develop the new themes excepting the main one. That isn't to say it's a weak score, and it's my impressions from the album as opposed to the full score. There is something bugging me though and it is becoming more persistent in film scores in general is the fact it must compete with the sound effects. There's portions of dense action music that just get lost in the sound effects which is a shame, just like in TFA with the Scherzo for X-Wings.

 

A far bigger problem is the way films are edited these days. There's often very little time to build to anything. Instant gratification must be achieved right now and right again after.

 

In ye olde days films were long form stories, and the composers were story tellers, taking the audience through an extended narrative. These days they are more like stand up comedians. Every line must immediately be followed by a punch line.

 

Brian Tyler has that problem, so does Gia. Every single chord and note feels like it just living in the moment, rather then that it's leading to something.

[publicist 4,643]

THE BFG is a godsend in that respect (though it didn't manage to to outgross even 'Beyond's opening day). 

[Arpy 4,145]

I'm just glad TFA turned out the way it did, I get the feeling however they were seriously trying to curtail some of the longer moments with the scenes and Williams' score in favor of quick and snappy scenes, maybe the reason it worked well for TFA in that instance in the quick-paced film is because he can craft music which will leave a longer impression...

 

On Beyond, it's a film which could have been better, but it failed to develop things further, it had weak or underdeveloped motivations for Krall and didn't feel like it had anytime to do anything, unfortunately this impacts on the score.

 

There's some Jupiter Ascending, Jurassic World and Tomorrowland elements I picked up on but I think with a longer presentation on CD it's a nice score. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I will have to catch that in the cinema this week.

[leeallen01 2,133]

I'm still trying to figure out what 3:20 - 3:50 is in 'Night on the Yorktown.' 

 

 

And wow 1:00 - 1:23 in 'Dance of the Nebula' is absolutely gorgeous. It makes me feel like I'm back on Dagoba or something. It feels like the serenity of Williams in his mournful state with Yoda or the Force material. I so so wish Giacchino would have used his 5 Year Mission Theme more.

 

 

[gkgyver 1,645]

On 25. Juli 2016 at 3:16 AM, Disco Stu said:

 

The Pirates theme is 100% definitely more widely recognized than Giacchino's Trek theme.  That Pirates theme is catchy as hell.

 

So is a Police Siren.

[Jay 37,287]

12 hours ago, JacksonElmore said:

I'm a complete airhead when it comes to these star trek scores (and most other things in life). Can someone please answer a few questions i have?

What theme is this? 0:39-0:42 

 

<Hitting The Saucer A Little Hard video>

 

I call it the B section of the Main Theme.

 

 

Quote

Also, what is the C section (ha) of the main theme? I'v heard it mentioned here but it isn't clear to me exactly what you guys are referring to.

 

That is terminology I've never used.  People who have said that in this thread could be referring to one of three things: What I call the B section of the Main Theme (which I think I need to rename), the Enterprise Crew theme (called the Cadet theme in that old post I linked you to), or the (likely) actual B Section of the main theme as heard in the end credits of the original film that was never used in actual film underscore before, until this film.

 

 

Quote

And finally, What is spock'stheme? I'v definitely heard it, because i've heard all the new st scores, but i haven't really listened in depth at all. Thanks

 

It should be obvious based on the old post I linked you to that shows where it appears in the first score.  On this album, I heard it in Hitting The Saucer A Little Hard, Franklin My Dear, and Crash Decisions .  But the best version of it from this score is unreleased (its when Spock talks to Bones about Spock Prime).

 

 

5 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

I'm still trying to figure out what 3:20 - 3:50 is in 'Night on the Yorktown.' 

 

Why does it have to be something? Composers write great melodies for one-time use all the time.

 

 

Quote

And wow 1:00 - 1:23 in 'Dance of the Nebula' is absolutely gorgeous. It makes me feel like I'm back on Dagoba or something. It feels like the serenity of Williams in his mournful state with Yoda or the Force material. I so so wish Giacchino would have used his 5 Year Mission Theme more.

 

Yea that's a cool passage - do I hear hints at the Five Year Mission theme in there?  I also really like the passage right after it, from 1:23-2:06

[leeallen01 2,133]

I said previously that the moment in 'Night on the Yorktown' sounds like something that I can't quite pinpoint. Of course composers write little moments that stand alone, but my point is that it reminds me of something from his Trek scores that I can't put my finger on. But considering no one has identified it as anything in-particular, it must be just a solo moment then.

 

Also yeah it is the 5 year mission theme in that lovely moment I pointed out in 'Dance of the Nebula,' which is why I expressed such a desire for Giacchino to have used and developed it more, because just that little moment shows how great that theme is, even without all the trimmings, it shines.

[Jay 37,287]

I think all 4 times he used it in the score are on the OST.

[leeallen01 2,133]

Perhaps he intends to use it next time out, so didn't want to exhaust its possibilities in Beyond. It would have been nice to hear it in a more defeated way and desperate in some of the middle portion of the film. Maybe he did and I just haven't identified it yet. But yeah, the few times it appears in the film seems to be on the ost. What little he did with it, is still great. The big version with full orchestra and choir is wonderful, and that solo horn in dance of the nebula shows its potential, as does the lovely little piano rendition at the end.

[Jay 37,287]

I wonder if MG wrote a 6 minute concert arrangement of that theme that will premiere on the Deluxe Edition like he did for Khan and Marcus' themes in STID.

[crocodile 7,984]

Let's hope!

 

Karol

[Disco Stu 15,495]

12 minutes ago, Jay said:

I wonder if MG wrote a 6 minute concert arrangement of that theme that will premiere on the Deluxe Edition like he did for Khan and Marcus' themes in STID.

 

I'm just hoping for the deluxe edition to happen at all.  Although I'm personally pretty happy with the OST overall.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

1 hour ago, gkgyver said:

 

So is a Police Siren.

No?

[leeallen01 2,133]

I've been so focused on other material that I haven't really come to grips with Jaylah's stuff. Is her theme the one at 1:00 in 'Jaylah Damage' and 2:38 in 'Mocking Jaylah'?

[Jay 37,287]

I think a Deluxe Edition is less likely for 3 reasons

 

-The OST is 61 minutes instead of 45 like the first two

 

-The STID DE didn't sell out like the ST09 DE did

 

-The film is on track to make less money than the first two

 

But of course, I hope it does happen!!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

LLL is still churning out TV sets that I'm sure sell less. I remain hopeful. 

[Jay 37,287]

Varese seems to have completely different priorities than the other specialty labels.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

True, but wasn't the whole Trek score expansion initiated by Paramount? I remember years ago someone saying it was Paramount's plan to expand all of them, when only 2, 3, and 5 were released. Of course things can change, but it would just seem weird to have 100% off all other Trek music available but not Beyond.

[Jay 37,287]

Hey, I didn't say it was unlikely to happen, simply less likely!

I of course hope it does happen!

Do you like the score, Koray?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm actually giving it it's first proper listen right now!

[Jay 37,287]

Good... good.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

-The film is on track to make less money than the first two

Really? Based on what I've seen (which admittedly isn't a whole lot), I was getting the impression it was being better received than Into Darkness was.

I suppose I'm mistaken then....

[crocodile 7,984]

Which isn't to say it's underperforming. They were expecting that. They are more concerned about its international numbers these days.

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Was it made for less money then the previous one?

[Jay 37,287]

Here's all the info you need:

 

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdowns/chart/?id=trekshowdown.htm

[gkgyver 1,645]

4 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

No?

 

Yes?

[Pieter Boelen 740]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

Here's all the info you need:

 

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/showdowns/chart/?id=trekshowdown.htm

"Beyond" has been out for less than a week, right? Is there any data that can be fairly compared yet?

[Jay 37,287]

The fact that it made less than $60 million in its opening weekend, while the original two both made over $70 million in their opening weekends.

[leeallen01 2,133]

Based on its opening, it'll likely make 200 million domestic, but with recent rapid foreign expansion, it could make the deficit back there, so it'll probably end up with total 450 million worldwide max.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

6 hours ago, gkgyver said:

 

Yes?

If you think police sirens are catchy then I don't know what to say. Whatever floats your boat. 

[Jay 37,287]

So? Your thoughts on the score?

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

I am beginning to think this is a fine score indeed. Gia's done a good job. He seems to be atleast trying to write differently or being more ambitious with his orchestrations. Of course still nowhere close to the maestro when he specially gave such a lesson to us in complexity and refinement this year in BFG. I think Gia writes with the gut and for the gut so to say. Williams does too but in his late phase Williams is I think tending a lot towards technical perfection - the sophisticated FORM of his music, he has unyielding good taste and doesn't half ass. No cheap thrills to be found in the maestro's music.

 

Anyways, I love that even this ostinato or whatever its called can even on its own be a rousing crescendo and statement.

 

Listen below from 0:45 to 1:00.

 

 

 

 

[leeallen01 2,133]

https://moviemusicuk.us/2016/07/26/star-trek-beyond-michael-giacchino/

 

According to Broxton, the Franklins' theme is not for the Franklin, it's a new action theme for Spock. I don't agree with that. And he also calls the 5 year Mission Theme as a theme for the Yorktown, which is also wrong. He also misses one of the variations of the 5 year mission theme in 'Dance of the Nebula.' 

[crocodile 7,984]

Where can you hear it in Nebula track? I couldn't find it the other day.

 

Karol

[leeallen01 2,133]

3 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Where can you hear it in Nebula track? I couldn't find it the other day.

 

Karol

 

1:09 - 1:18

[crocodile 7,984]

Of course it's there! Thank you.

 

Karol

[Miz 139]

I think this score is more of a grower than the previous two (not so the film, though).

 

The main theme is played with and stretched and, while it doesn't allow space for much other thematic material, it's nice to hear it developed. I also think this score has some of the series highlights for more poignant and subdued performances of the familiar themes. The newer themes are not so interesting as, for example, Harrison's was, but Yorktown is definitely welcome...

[Damien F 1,742]

19 hours ago, Jay said:

I think a Deluxe Edition is less likely for 3 reasons

 

-The OST is 61 minutes instead of 45 like the first two

 

-The STID DE didn't sell out like the ST09 DE did

 

-The film is on track to make less money than the first two

 

But of course, I hope it does happen!!

 

I also think there are far fewer unreleased highlights than the first two, presumably due to the extra 16 minutes. ST09 and STID had loads of great cues missing from their OSTs which made the deluxe editions much more importanant. Aside from a few brief moments here and there, and pretty much happy with Beyond's OST and won't be too disappointed if it doesn't have a Deluxe.

 

I'd probably feel differently if the OST was 45 mins like the previous two.

3 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

https://moviemusicuk.us/2016/07/26/star-trek-beyond-michael-giacchino/

 

According to Broxton, the Franklins' theme is not for the Franklin, it's a new action theme for Spock. I don't agree with that. And he also calls the 5 year Mission Theme as a theme for the Yorktown, which is also wrong. He also misses one of the variations of the 5 year mission theme in 'Dance of the Nebula.' 

 

Me too. That definitely isn't a spock action theme. The Franklin makes much more sense.

 

I'm curious, how did the 5 years mission theme become identified as such. Was it ever mentioned by someone associated with the movie, or was it someone here who saw the movie?

[Jay 37,287]

26 minutes ago, dfenton85 said:

I'm curious, how did the 5 years mission theme become identified as such. Was it ever mentioned by someone associated with the movie, or was it someone here who saw the movie?

Giacchino identified it as such right here

 

https://www.facebook.com/StarTrekMovie/videos/10153800324053716/

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25896-michael-giacchino-star-trek-beyond-2016/&do=findComment&comment=1261082

[Nic Cage Fugue 19]

I really like this score. The Yorktown theme has been playing in my head all weekend. But also while I tend to find Giacchino's action music a bit shrill and uninteresting I think there are some exciting, listenable action cues here. Some of them seem to have actual motifs of their own!

 

I like what he did with the Krall theme. By the end of the movie, it has transitioned into something a bit noble. Not sure I agree with that read on the character but it's musically satisfying. 

 

And the choral bit at the end of Hitting the Saucer might be the most beautiful thing I've heard from Giacchino. In general it sounds to me like he tinkers with his main theme a lot more this time around. Might be my favorite of his Trek scores but I need to listen to Into Darkness a few more times. 

[MedigoScan 324]

the only thing I would really want from a second release is the music for the 'cutting of the Enterprise's neck'

nothing else stood out for me much, but it did sound nice

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

The Yorktown theme is very good.

 

Why doesn't Gia do theme concert tracks for the album like his idol Williams. Williams is a great showman, he writes wonderful themes and more or less always included a track that showcases the theme away from the restrictions of film scoring and scene fitting.

 

Gia doesn't always write great themes but why not do some theme tracks? I could definitely see plenty made out of John Carter, Tomorrowland, Ratatouille etc. And he underestimates their importance, it can help with exposure and popularity. A casual film go-over is gonna watch a 2 hour movie and like some music but he's not going to log into youtube and listen to 20 tracks with strange names trying to figure out what he liked. But if there's a theme track like A's theme or B's theme or Theme from C or whatever, he might give it a go, like it and THEN discover the score of hell just praise the music based on the theme track he heard.

 

I would have liked a concert version of the Yorktown theme and even the Vulcan theme.

[Faleel 5,337]

He did do that for Into darkness, unfortunately it did not make the album.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Same with John Carter. There are several unreleased theme suites that are pretty darn good.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Pieter Boelen 740]

There was the Carter Theme, the Dejah one, a Therns one, a Tharks one and maybe one more.

Some of those were indeed included in the album end credits though.