The Force Awakens Rey's Theme – John Williams' Best Theme Yet?

[mrbellamy 6,278]

6 hours ago, someonefun124 said:

I'm still having a hard time imagining Rey's theme existing in the Harry Potter world as many people have claimed.  It doesn't work for any of the Harry Potter characters.  Williams couldn't have made a better theme for Rey as it fits perfectly in the film and within the Star Wars universe.

 

I get the general comparison because of the bells and the flutes dancing around in her theme. It reminds people of whimsy and magic and light fantasy/adventure. Also her intro motif is a little bit "Double Trouble".

[mrbellamy 6,278]

By the way, really, how great is that transitional variation of the theme, the soaring one that we get in "Maz's Counsel" and "Farewell and the Trip" and on French Horn in the theme track? I was just thinking about how I've grown to love the different facets of this theme and how he uses them throughout the movie, and that one works so well as almost a kind of "call to adventure" signal, yeah? It feels like such a bold statement and I love how the first time you hear it, she's resisting the lightsaber at Maz's and it sounds almost like a cry for help as she's running away. But then later in the forest when Chewie arrives in the Falcon, this melody becomes inspiring with Rey having accepted "the call."

 

It works rather nicely into a narrative reading of the theme track too with the sort of melancholy, one could say "reluctant" descending first statement of the theme to start (incorporated early on into the score with that gorgeous flute solo in The Scavenger), followed by "the call" which leads into the more full bodied heroic statements. It makes me wonder how these variations along with the supporting motivic figures came about....I know he spends a lot of time on melodic material before scoring, but do you think he had "Rey's Theme" at least roughly as we hear it on the OST worked out with all these little ideas emerging out of each other musically and he was able to apply the bits and pieces to the film, or did they really iron out as he was scoring scenes and he was able to later structure them into a cohesive piece after the fact.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

14 hours ago, Demodex said:

Every theme from the prequels other than Anakin's is better than Rey's. 

Humor, it's a difficult concept.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I think he should die for those words!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

8 hours ago, Stefancos said:

I think he should die for those words!

now i know whose painful limb rendering death we were talking about the other day. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes...yeeeessss!

[Cantus Venti 13]

Rey's theme: more of background texture ideas ripped from his previous soundtracks, not so much a genius theme.

 

This being called one of John Williams's best themes yet I thought was a joke. (?)

 

We can respect the composer in general. As my favorite composer, and the reason he's so great, I'd say I have a good top 100 themes and not sure yet if I would add Rey's theme in there.

 

I believe many people could compose something very similar to Rey's theme. The music does not stand out as particular visionary.

 

It is not really the same standard as most of his genius themes: in melodic structure it is very messy and more difficult to follow, especially rhythmically pretty one-tone and bland, except there is a light in the dark: a very simple up-and-down a third I can accept as a good starting point for a theme. But, seriously. Judgment, standards? Not anywhere as catchy and wondrous as most of his stuff.

 

Most likely reason for people pushing this to such praise is the hype of newness and seeing good in anything, especially when it's the new STAR WARS. I can understand that, trust me. This this inborn desire for certain people to love new things and think of "old" as an insult.

 

Going to wait for the hype to die down though and for people to be real and take off their rose-tinted glasses.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ok....

[crumbs 14,306]

Death to Rey's Theme!

 

[Cantus Venti 13]

Never say something so harsh. Sure, Rey's theme won't be standing any great test of time and will be pretty easily forgotten, but it's still Williams and it's still beautiful.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ok

[Cantus Venti 13]

I think it's definitely more the love of Star Wars, the passion for this new movie and Rey's character that gets people enjoying this new soundtrack and listening over and over. I can respect that. But I can't attribute this to being anywhere near his best work, that's really (really) silly imo. Everyone's entitled to their taste, okay, but if I had to guess, most of this is temporary hype.

[crumbs 14,306]

From my point of view, this is the best 30 seconds of film music written in 2015.

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

5 minutes ago, Cantus Venti said:

I think it's definitely more the love of Star Wars, the passion for this new movie and Rey's character that gets people enjoying this new soundtrack and listening over and over. I can respect that. But I can't attribute this to being anywhere near his best work, that's really (really) silly imo. Everyone's entitled to their taste, but I think it's just temporary hype.

 

Ok

[Balahkay 627]

It's in my top 10 Williams themes.

 

12 minutes ago, Cantus Venti said:

Never say something so harsh. Sure, Rey's theme won't be standing any great test of time and will be pretty easily forgotten, but it's still Williams.

Still too soon to say, but I wouldn't say it would be easily forgotten due to the popularity of Rey's character.  In fact, I'd argue part of her popularity is because of her theme.  Also, not only does it appeal to Star Wars fan but Harry Potter fans seem to be taken by it, too.

[Cantus Venti 13]

Hmm well, I believe the theme will be easily forgotten actually, just not the character. (Actually the theme is already easily forgotten. I don't hear any film geeks humming it or remembering it.)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You are very funny.

[Demodex 557]

19 minutes ago, someonefun124 said:

In fact, I'd argue part of her popularity is because of her theme. 

 

Oh please. Maybe Jar Jar just needed a better theme and he'd be beloved by movie critics!

And it's weird that Han is so popular considering he doesn't even have a theme!

[Cantus Venti 13]

I like Rey a lot.

[Balahkay 627]

27 minutes ago, Cantus Venti said:

Hmm well, I believe the theme will be easily forgotten actually, but not the character. (Actually the theme is already easily forgotten. I don't hear any film geeks humming it or remembering it.)

 

 

To me it's not only melodically and rhythmically unmemorable, but a bit too flat and simplistic and pretty typical-sounding as far as modern film music goes. There is a small hint of Williams sophistication in the overall orchestration and development, but nothing very new or unique.

 

 

Nearly 3 million views (listens in this case) and counting.  Not bad for an unmemorable theme.

[Cantus Venti 13]

Sure. I mean a million people on earth go to rewatch a video an average of 3 times from the brand new Star Wars movie. Not too surprising to me. An exponentially incredibly higher amount of people go on daily to listen to terrible pop music. There are over 7 billion people on earth. So some have definitely heard of Star Wars.

[crumbs 14,306]

I guess the complexity comes from the gorgeous orchestrations; no other working composer matches his mastery of the orchestra.

 

The theme is indeed relatively short and simple, but so are The Imperial March, Leia's Theme and the Force Theme. It's what he does with them in orchestrations and tonality that makes them so memorable.

[Cantus Venti 13]

I'd agree that John Williams is the master of film music. I would argue a lot of it is the catchiness of his melodies, along with the style and rhythm he puts them to definitely, but the melody seems to come paramount. Rey's Theme's like I said, is simplistic, not simple like his best works, but more flat and rhythmically one-tone and typical-sounding. I hear almost like a JW random melody generator that uses recycled tones to form this melody from an algorithm, and it turns out unfocused-sounding and very incomplete. I don't hear a flash of inspiration in this music, like a complete picture of a motif that will be sung through the ages, like how his best music usually comes across. Nothing too memorable or visionary about it. A great rhythmic structure or sensible melody is just not there to me. I hear the makings of a potential good melody with the up-and-down a third at the beginning of it.

 

Actually, taking that up-and-down a third to an interesting level would be Hook's theme. A great theme, but it had so many more sensible notes and harmonies, like the IV7 also used in Close Encounter's theme.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You must have a different definition of simplistic if you define the melody of Rey's theme that way.

[Loert 2,511]

58 minutes ago, Cantus Venti said:

...but I hear almost like a JW random melody generator that uses recycled tones to form this melody from an algorithm...

 

Rey's theme is anything but random. It is, first and foremost, a derivation of the Force theme. Now, it may not sound as "tight" or complete as other, more popular Williams themes, but I believe Williams is aiming at something bigger here. Rey is only just becoming aware of her nature. Only by the end of the film is the Force "awakened" in Rey, and this is beautifully referenced by Williams in the end credits, when Rey's theme is played alongside the Force theme. This is Williams explicitly stating, "Hey guys, Rey is actually strongly connected to the Force".

 

But before then, Rey's theme only subtly hints at this reference. And I agree that Rey's theme might come across as slightly hollow. One of the reasons for this is that the theme keeps returning to the tonic, but not always "on the beat". This is unlike the Force theme, which has a stronger sense of harmonic rhythm, whereas Rey's theme might come across as more confused.

 

But this is entirely appropriate for the film and the story, because, after all, Rey is a "lost character" herself when we first come across her. She's a strong character to be sure, but ultimately confused about her destiny. And hence Rey's theme, while it certainly sounds bold, does not have such a strong sense of direction as it could have, because there isn't much to be certain about. Rey's journey is only just beginning!

 

So, I don't think it's correct to dismiss Rey's theme because it isn't hummable or memorable. I believe that Williams knows what he's doing, and that he's trying to paint a larger, more profound narrative with his music, more so than he has done in the past. And I think this is one of the reasons why this soundtrack has been such a "grower" for so many people. It is not the kind of soundtrack that hits you in the face with memorable, hummable tunes, but (speaking for myself) it left me feeling inquisitive after first listening. And I like the fact that Williams seems to be going down this more operatic route because, after all, Star Wars is the sort of franchise which lends itself to this operatic treatment very well (even though it is just a kids' movie...)

[Cantus Venti 13]

I have the same thoughts myself. I agree with everything you said aside from you not liking my analogy for what the music indeed sounds like, JW does know what he's doing a lot of the time. It is still not one of his best tracks. With the lack of great content it offers in comparison to the hundred better ideas he's come up with, can he come up with better music for the next movie, if that is what you're saying? Sure. Most definitely. I don't believe a theme needs to be scattered or aimless to give a character who exudes any of these qualities a chance at wonderfully fitting thematic music. The music of TFA came across very muted and a loss of great potential. The movie somehow rose above this fact. JW's music for the original trilogy went far beyond the film.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Ok

[Taikomochi 1,136]

While I sharply disagree with Cantus, I don't feel like people simply responding with "ok" in this thread and on the forum in general is really productive.  It's dismissive to the opinions of others.  

 

 

 

I await the series of "ok"'s that this comment attracts.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Wasn't it just me doing that?

 

 

[Taikomochi 1,136]

And Mr. Big.  But I've seen it elsewhere.  I was more making a general comment than specific to this thread.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's simply a way to state you disagree and are rather puzzled by the persons comments.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

As I've said before, and others have (and as is evidenced by the extreme "grower" reaction to this score), this is exceptionally subtle music, the whole score.  This fellow may feel the widespread appeal is a kneejerk reaction to hype.  Well, I think his dismissal is because he just hasn't heard it enough yet.  I'll put any money down that this, along with some other oft-dismissed Williams scores, will be recognized as one of the masterworks of his career, rather than slowly fading as the Star Wars mania does.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

4 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

It's simply a way to state you disagree and are rather puzzled by the persons comments.

 

Then say that instead.  "Ok" is just dismissive, like you don't even have the time to acknowledge someone else's thoughts.  Maybe you had a different intention, but that's how it comes off.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed. A lot of people didn't "get" Rey's Theme at first. So it's certainly not a case of it being a Star Wars hype.

1 minute ago, Taikomochi said:

 

Then say that instead.  "Ok" is just dismissive, like you don't even have the time to acknowledge someone else's thoughts.  Maybe you had a different intention, but that's how it comes off.

 

That's how it comes off to you! I'm not responsible for the way you interpret my comments. Especially since they weren't even directed at you.

 

This Cantu guy was far more dismissive of people here then my "ok" ever was.

 

And who the hell are you to tell me how to formulate my opinion anyway?

 

[Taikomochi 1,136]

You just keep digging that hole.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

 

4 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

This Cantu guy was far more dismissive of people here then my "ok" ever was.

Yeah, writing off the positive reaction to the theme as being the product of "rose-tinted glasses" was far more dismissive than saying "Ok"

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

3 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

You just keep digging that hole.

 

What hole? 

2 minutes ago, Mr. Big said:

 

Yeah, writing off the positive reaction to the theme as being the product of "rose-tinted glasses" was far more dismissive than saying "Ok"

 

Thank you!

[Taikomochi 1,136]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Big said:

 

Yeah, writing off the positive reaction to the theme as being the product of "rose-tinted glasses" was far more dismissive than saying "Ok"

 

Well, once again, just say that instead.  I am not really interested in calling out anyone or bickering with them, not that you were, Mr. Big.  I was merely commenting on something I have seen on this forum for discussion that is not conducive to discussion.  It's the type of echo chamber tactics that I think deters a lot of people from coming here.  I have commented in the past how that type of stuff is why I myself am so on-and-off with this site myself.  I certainly can't imagine that Cantus will feel compelled to continue to share his/her opinions, however difficult to interpret they are, after having them written off like that.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Again, who are you to dictate how another person should respond?

[Taikomochi 1,136]

You are taking my comments as much more directive than I mean them.  I am not telling anyone how to interact.  I am saying "ok" comments are dismissive.  Continue to use them for all I care.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

3 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

 I am saying "ok" comments are dismissive.

 

Yes they are. And what exactly is your problem with that?

Cantus was extremely dismissive to people who love Rey's Theme, perhaps you should address that too?

 

Look, I don't know you, judging from your post count you probably havent been here very long. But if "ok" bothers you, then I really don't know how you are going to get through life.

 

Welcome to JWFan anyway. It's a good thing that great tracks like Rey's Theme have brought new members like you in our midst.

 

 

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I have been here since 2007...  Unless you were referring to Cantus.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

2700 posts in 9 years?

 

My apologies, I've never noticed your screen name before.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I am sure we have had quite a few interactions over the last decade.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

There are only a handful of people to which I am able to assign an actual identity that separates them from the brown greyish murky stew of posts here though. So many people, so many opinions, all so indistinct and bland.

 

But I noticed you today, so well done!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Stefancos v. Taikomochi: Dawn of Recognition!

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I wanna be Batman.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I am the Man Of Steef!

[Jay 37,351]

Aww, you guys CAN get along!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And I love you too Jason!

 

*sniff*