The Force Awakens Rey's Theme – John Williams' Best Theme Yet?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

A result of the CIA's MK-Ultra experiments!

[Quintus 5,399]

4 hours ago, loert said:

 

 

Based off of the Hal Leonard score: It's four horns + bassoon + violas (tremolo) + two clarinets doubling an octave higher. The instruments you can hear most prominently in the tracks are the horns with the clarinets (an octave higher), the clarinets contributing to a slightly 'nasal' tone.

 

 

Nasal is exactly what I'd call it, actually. It's an odd choice of orchestration in this particular instance, no? A notable quality the moment we're discussing evokes though is one of movement - probably in direct relation to the character's aspirations and yearning desire to move onto pastures new, so to speak. It's certainly effective music. 

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

8 hours ago, Lhokne Mulb said:

Question for musical friends: other than saying it uses 5 notes, what's the value of the word pentatonic?

 

When we use the word pentatonic we really mean a five note scale without semitones (anhemitonic) or tritones (atritonic), the two most dissonant intervals. Though there are pentatonic scales with semitones (hemitonic) which you'll find in Japanese folk music--pentatonic has generally come to mean anhemitonic.

[publicist 4,643]

And Williams works fairly strictly within these parameters (in that tune) what prompts me to think he has set himself the little challenge.

[Loert 2,510]

6 hours ago, Quintus said:

Nasal is exactly what I'd call it, actually. It's an odd choice of orchestration in this particular instance, no? A notable quality the moment we're discussing evokes though is one of movement - probably in direct relation to the character's aspirations and yearning desire to move onto pastures new, so to speak. It's certainly effective music. 

 

From a superficial point of view, the clarinets are there simply to make the melody stand out. One question one might ask is: why clarinets, and not the oboes or flutes? Well, the oboe and flute are saved for the "hopping motif" which plays above the main melody, so there's that. As for the trumpets and violins, they're being used for a background texture. Another question is: are the clarinets really that necessary? I think it would be interesting to hear that passage played without the clarinets. I'm guessing the melody would sound a bit "warmer" (with the horns being the most prominent instrument), but less obvious. However I believe that if Williams used the clarinets, there must be a good reason for that. It is interesting how Williams decided to employ the entire orchestra in that section, using it to conjure up a sense of movement (as you describe), despite the fact that everyone's playing fairly quietly. 

 

39 minutes ago, publicist said:

And Williams works fairly strictly within these parameters (in that tune) what prompts me to think he has set himself the little challenge.

 

I'm a bit confused by this tbh. I don't hear anything especially pentatonic about the melody. You can say it uses the pentatonic scale A-C-D-E-G but only until the B (10th note). What am I missing?

[KK 3,307]

I think pub was referring to the opening phrase, arguing that it has some pent atonic character, with its use of the scale. But yeah, I wouldn't argue it's a pentatonic melody.

 

And its amusing how much meaningless rhetoric and jargon that Cantus is trying to pull to "justify" the memorability of this tune. Lol

[publicist 4,643]

Correct me about this, but to my ears Williams builds the whole theme out of his limited pentatonic scale (undiluted in the opening phrases), though he harmonizes it in broad Hollywood style, of course. 

[DarthDementous 1,059]

perhaps your arguments would be seen as more credible @Cantus Venti if you didn't keep editing your posts to paint yourself in a better light to others that read the thread later.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Yeah, I've noticed that. Not a good habit.

[Quintus 5,399]

It's good in that it makes a person very quickly and easily sussed out to those dealing with them. 

[Cantus Venti 13]

I always edit my posts. Sometimes for a good on-and-off day. 

 

Unfortunately I don't care about the impressions that makes. My aim is for accuracy and development and if I could say something better, or think of extended points, I fix it and edit it until I like it.

 

@Sharky, you show meticulousness in your exposition of musical terms, but posts like this make me wonder if you compose (?):

 

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Anyone could have composed this melody (Rey's Theme.)

 

Only Williams and possibly Morricone. It has the later's intervallic hallmarks and modal borrowing.

 

Not sure what to make of "only Williams or Morricone." Anyone here could have written Rey's theme pretty easily, unless someone here is such a bad composer they have no idea what notes are in a key. It's a primitive melodic structure. I remember composing something a lot like it 10 years ago, now that I think about it.. It had the same 4-5 in the 1st bar, but I repeated it at the beginning of the 2nd bar and resolved it into a more catchy tune. These are simple recycled melodic structures. Some work out, some, in the case of Rey, don't really sound like anything. The appoggiatura in question is too premature to be considered a peak, not to mention also how blotchy an attempt the rest of the tune is, Williams does from time-to-time.

[Tom 4,640]

I had the idea for double-stuffed Oreos like 10 years before they did. 

[Wojo 2,453]

My childhood fantasy was giant dinosaur robots that me and my friends controlled. I was very disappointed in middle school. 

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I compose when I have the time. "Anyone here could have written Rey's theme" strikes me as woefully naive, and gives me the impression that you're young and precocious--the type that would dismiss Eric Satie, John Barry or John Tavener. I say that because I was (sorta) like you when I first hit JWFan 5 years ago. I can only hope you mature out of this phase and will be able to look back on these early posts and cringe or laugh.

 

Writing a theme this precise and eloquent in character is extremely challenging. You're constantly second-guessing yourself as you refine your idea, until it "speaks" in a musical and almost logical way. It's not something you can really teach, either.

[KK 3,307]

Cantus, all great themes are really just re-combinations and arrangements of familiar musical structures. What makes Williams stand above the rest as a tunesmith is his incredible patience and crafting, adjusting and fine-tuning that sequence to come up with the tune that is "just right". And as much as composers rely certain intervals and cadences to evoke the appropriate feeling, it's ultimately a very subjective voice that determine whether that half note should become a dotted quarter, or whether the 4th should move to a 6th instead. Williams has spent so many years doing just this, as much of his Hollywood success is indebted to it, so his instincts are incomparably sharp in this regard. There's a reason that so many amateur Williams clones are so good at aping his sound without actually being able to capture the essence of what makes that classic Williams tune.

 

To me, Rey's Theme is a clear product of that same artist, but one that is less interested in getting to the crowd and more keen on capturing a more personally evocative feeling. He takes melodic units that he's grown rather accustomed to, and plays around with them in more unconventional ways in comparison to his Hollywood hits. It sounds like something he wrote more for himself than others, and I think that's what gives it that "sunset quality" that everyone was raving about initially. I doubt most here actually believe it to be his best, but that doesn't make it any less beautiful.

[Cantus Venti 13]

Sharky, I'm sure you have played various musical samples to scenes in order to hear what the scenes sound like with them. Try doing this more, that will solve your big mysterious issue, and those of the majority of this poor industry's composers nowadays.

 

You're trying to describe a piece that is so simplistic in rhythm and scale, as being full of talent, like the ability to capture fitting scenes needs to be internally programmed from birth. Perhaps constructing this kind of idea for Rey's theme is something you couldn't do, but I'm absolutely sure most composers can.

 

I personally had a very different experience listening to the score. Too many moments in TFA I had imagined how I could have brought out a lot better the underlying emotion and theme than this underdone score. I usually never feel this way with Williams, as he has tended to write the best music. But as he's aged considerably Williams has found a comfort point--these ideas were not as tremendously fitting as people try to make them out to be (using after-the-fact justifications which to me demonstrate a hidden motive of unconditional love for Star Wars and John Williams.)

 

@KK.

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What makes Williams stand above the rest as a tunesmith is his incredible patience and crafting, adjusting and fine-tuning that sequence to come up with the tune that is "just right". And as much as composers rely certain intervals and cadences to evoke the appropriate feeling, it's ultimately a very subjective voice that determine whether that half note should become a dotted quarter, or whether the 4th should move to a 6th instead. 

 

I would also argue that other composers do a better job in their versitility and craft of moment-suiting cinematic dynamicism. Williams lives a lot more in the music itself, building overarching musical themes for his characters, thematic symbols and archetypes, then seeing if and where he enjoys them get along, and cut-pasting and arranging them into appropriate movements. But your point is also that Williams has patience and experience in writing. All qualities anyone should benefit from when attempting to compose--a bit obvious, don't you think?

 

Successful composers are built from experience and a passion to create. That is all you need.

 

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To me, Rey's Theme is a clear product of that same artist, but one that is less interested in getting to the crowd and more keen on capturing a more personally evocative feeling. 

 

To me, that does just describe Williams in general. Rey's theme sounds like an indecisive play to capture some moods of other things he has written. When I look at his recent scores, I see this pattern.

[publicist 4,643]

JWFan mangles this little 3-minute tune a lot. Sure, there are the more 'melodramatic' parts of it that by design and necessity relate to a simpler, more populist Hollywood style but if you compare it to David Arnold, John Debney or Michael Giacchino - all composers that have come up with similar concoctions - it still seems a lot more profound (even if it's not the greatest tune ever written).

 

Wholly pentatonic or not, the way its build out of this rigid scale makes it a far more worthy addition to the SW canon - shades of a stoic asian warrior - more than another Tchaikovsky-flowered 'Across the Stars'.

 

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Hey Cantus Venti, are you a fan of John Corigliano?

[DarthDementous 1,059]

7 hours ago, Cantus Venti said:

Too many moments in TFA I had imagined how I could have brought out a lot better the underlying emotion and theme than this underdone score. I usually never feel this way with Williams, as he has tended to write the best music.

 

oh hi Skyy38.

 

with this outlandish claim surely you have something you've composed to back it up? I see this with a lot of films, particularly with the Prequels where people think they have the key to the movie's success, a million dollar idea that is vastly better than what was presented. the only difference is that the ideas in the movie came under a strict timeframe and budget (more relevant to the movie side than the musical side but still). ideas are all well and good but you can't put yourself anywhere near the level of the person unless you work under the same restrictions, and this isn't just Williams - this goes for every professional that people think they can do their job better. you could have the greatest idea but if its executed poorly then you'll receive no praise, I believe this fits as well for Williams simple melodic construction. complexity isn't always a good thing.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

6 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Hey Cantus Venti, are you a fan of John Corigliano?

 

No, but he recently learned a couple of new words and is dying to use them.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

17 hours ago, Cantus Venti said:

Sharky, I'm sure you have played various musical samples to scenes in order to hear what the scenes sound like with them. Try doing this more, that will solve your big mysterious issue, and those of the majority of this poor industry's composers nowadays.

 

Sure, I've ran iTunes or Spotify while watching muted clips of films from Youtube to see how scenes might play out with a different underscore. I think we've all done this in some form or another. Occasionally a bar or two might sync up and an interesting quality a scene, but 9 times out of a 10 it's a Frankensteinian mismatch. Cues are so carefully tailored to the hit-points, the soundmix and underlying emotional beats of the scenes they were written for, that the needle drop method betrays all subtlety or finesse.

 

How this relates to solving my "big mysterious issue" (?!) I've no idea.

 

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You're trying to describe a piece that is so simplistic in rhythm and scale, as being full of talent, like the ability to capture fitting scenes needs to be internally programmed from birth. 

 

It requires an innate "film sense", but that's something that is learned through experience by seeing what doesn't work, and why. Bad temp tracks can very helpful in this case.

 

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Perhaps constructing this kind of idea for Rey's theme is something you couldn't do, but I'm absolutely sure most composers can.

 

Oh, I'm sure you could do it in your sleep.

 

 

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I would also argue that other composers do a better job in their versitility and craft of moment-suiting cinematic dynamicism.

 

What composers?

 

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To me, that does just describe Williams in general. Rey's theme sounds like an indecisive play to capture some moods of other things he has written. When I look at his recent scores, I see this pattern.

 

Tell me this: what do you think of Williams's concert pieces? Heartwood, Treesong, Soundings, the Violin Concerto and the Sinfionetta for Winds. These are pretty highly regarded around here. Do you see any value in them whatsoever, or is Williams to you just a colourful tunesmith who "copies and pastes" his themes into various settings?

 

 

[artguy360 1,843]

Let's be honest, all of us could have done a better job than JW scoring TFA but we're just too polite to say it. I mean JW is pretty old at this point. It might ruin what's left of his fragile ego to learn that a dozen or so people on the internet are vastly more talented composers than he could ever hope to be.

[Cantus Venti 13]

What you say nowadays seems true unfortunately, more and more, but I don't think I could compare to what Williams has done in his life and for the film industry. John Williams is so influential to most everyone on this forum, as so his ideas are a part of my music.

 

@Sharky

13 hours ago, Sharky said:

Oh, I'm sure you could do it in your sleep.

 

While a lot of great ideas do come through sleep, as pointed out, I was "scoring TFA" as well as mixing through a single duration of the movie. TFA is actually a low-rated soundtrack. Many of thousands of people would be eager to take his place scoring their own better score.

 

13 hours ago, Sharky said:

Tell me this: what do you think of Williams's concert pieces? Heartwood, Treesong, Soundings, the Violin Concerto and the Sinfionetta for Winds. These are pretty highly regarded around here. Do you see any value in them whatsoever, or is Williams to you just a colourful tunesmith who "copies and pastes" his themes into various settings?

 

I see that you have begun approaching this from somewhat several different directions and arguments, instead of making specific points about this score.

 

Yes, I find tremendous value in most of John Williams' music. I have only been able to say that for a couple of my very favorite composers, and for why that is, I am never purposefully interested in praising any composer over simply praising the individual music I like. I can most say that I only prefer certain measures and passages of music. I cannot, after the fact, justify adoring a composer or a piece, simply because I terribly enjoy some short portions of their music. I always see people doing this and it seems dishonest, and what a lot of this TFA hype is, because "it's John Williams' Star Wars."

 

For it to be peoples' favorite score is completely fine. After a few years, everyone has a Williams favorite for one random reason or another. But it is hype that I have been becoming good at sniffing it out and is not something I take seriously when I see it. Music analysts convince themselves this score is just as good, for just as many reasons, and they look for these reasons, justifying with starry eyes "it's John Williams's Star Wars." There really is nowhere as much vision and talent behind this as many of his older scores, it is very ridiculous, and that is the majority's opinion on this. The score gets a 66% average out of 100 based on all the top reviewer sites, and many who rate it higher still admit that the score is a rather low bar set. The extra points are then for Williams himself. This is hype psychology in the very making.

 

The common response is "these people have just got to listen to it more." Anything becomes great once you listen to it enough. The only reason you're listening to it is because after 11 years, John Williams has come out with a new Star Wars soundtrack that is charmingly different. Just came out too. So either the (easily forgettable) music is going to magically grow on everyone, or it will be much more easily forgotten like all of the more simplistic and underwhelming scores, and the latter is the clear bet.

 

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Sure, I've ran iTunes or Spotify while watching muted clips of films from Youtube to see how scenes might play out with a different underscore. I think we've all done this in some form or another.

 

How this relates to solving my "big mysterious issue" (?!) I've no idea.

 

You won't know until you try.

 

23 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

you could have the greatest idea but if its executed poorly then you'll receive no praise,

 

Things get praised all the time for being executed poorly. That's the corporate world. What usually never happens are these things lasting in any regard or duration. Hype is loud, it revolves around certain people, but it fades away quickly. Masterpieces come back and they remain.

[Quintus 5,399]

Heh heh 

[DarthDementous 1,059]

@Cantus Venti did you just agree with @artguy360's sarcasm? hoo boy. 

 

could you please stop with this insulting notion that the only reason I give praise to TFA's score is because its 'Star Wars' or its 'John Williams' or I'm 'caught up in the hype' like I'm some blind fan-boy? I adore the score because I think its masterfully constructed, perfectly compliments the movies' emotional beats and delivers on the quota of memorable themes and moments of music. there's only about 2 or 3 tracks that I don't enjoy listening to, I can just shut my eyes for the rest and have a complete understanding of what's going on in the movie without needing to see it, like the Original Trilogy scores.

 

we get it, you don't think its up to scratch for John Williams, but just leave it at that than trying to convince all us 'sheeple' that we're misguided and should heed the statistics, ironically what you were trying to disprove was important about TFA on account of its critical and fan praise.

 

and before you edit your post or try and claim that you're not doing this, let me directly quote from your post:

 

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For it to be peoples' favorite score is completely fine. After a few years, everyone has a Williams favorite for one random reason or another. But it is the hype which I have been becoming good at sniffing it out and isn't something I take seriously.

clearly its not fine if you can't see this score as legitimately being liked (standing the test of time) because its all about the hype, something which you hilariously think pointing out makes you intelligent.

 

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 I cannot, after the fact, justify adoring a composer or a piece, simply because I terribly enjoy some short portions of their music. I always see people doing this and it seems dishonest, and what a lot of this TFA hype is imo, because "it's John Williams' Star Wars."

 

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Music analysts convince themselves this score is just as good for just as many reasons, and they look for these reasons, justifying the score's excellence with starry eyes because it's John Williams's Star Wars. There really is nowhere as much vision and talent behind this as many of his older scores, it is very ridiculous, and that is the majority's opinion on this.

why do we care about the majority's opinion anyway? I thought it was quite known that something doesn't have to be popular to be good, especially something even more subjective than film-making: music.

 

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So either the (easily forgettable) music is going to magically grow on everyone, or it will be much more easily forgotten like all of the more simplistic and underwhelming scores, and the latter is the clear bet.)

 

[Cantus Venti 13]

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could you please stop with this insulting notion that the only reason I give praise to TFA's score is because its 'Star Wars' or its 'John Williams' or I'm 'caught up in the hype' like I'm some blind fan-boy?

 

Why should it be the only reason? And why by "majority," does that mean you? For all I know, this might be your favorite score in a few years.

 

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clearly its not fine if you can't see this score as legitimately being liked (standing the test of time) because its all about the hype, something which you hilariously think pointing out makes you intelligent.

 

Right now it's about the hype. Years from now it's not going to be very praised, and even now I see it already isn't. So to say years down it won't doesn't need to offend you. 

 

You seem to be making a few wild assumptions about things I never say, black-and-white sort of thinking / interpretation, so I clarified your points.

 

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and before you edit your post or try and claim that you're not doing this, let me directly quote from your post:

 

Quote me all you'd like, I don't mind. But I will still edit my posts.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

If we say that Rey's Theme sucks, will you leave us alone?

[Cantus Venti 13]

46 minutes ago, Mr. Big said:

If we say that Rey's Theme sucks, will you leave us alone?

 

As I recall, you all begun talking to me.

 

To answer your question, if you say that Rey's theme sucks, I wouldn't be surprised, but I'd disagree.

[justaguy 68]

3 hours ago, Cantus Venti said:

 

As I recall, you all begun talking to me.

 

To answer your question, if you say that Rey's theme sucks, I wouldn't be surprised, but I'd disagree.

But WOULD YOU LEAVE US ALONE then? That was the question.

[Loert 2,510]

6 hours ago, Cantus Venti said:

While a lot of great ideas do come through sleep, as pointed out, I was "scoring TFA" as well as mixing through a single duration of the movie. TFA is actually a low-rated soundtrack. Many of thousands of people would be eager to take his place scoring their own better score.

 

Williams has been with the franchise from day one. He has established the sound of the franchise, hence he knows best how to replicate that sound. As somebody else on this board once said, maybe some other composer somewhere is capable of writing music which sounds like Williams' "Star Wars", but nobody can think like Williams. So, for the sake of retaining the same musical style, Williams is unequivocally the best choice.

 

As for the bolded statement, you have nothing to back it up.

 

6 hours ago, Cantus Venti said:

I can most say that I only prefer certain measures and passages of music. I cannot, after the fact, justify adoring a composer or a piece, simply because I terribly enjoy some short portions of their music. I always see people doing this and it seems dishonest, and what a lot of this TFA hype is, because "it's John Williams' Star Wars."

 

Where have you seen people do that? Sure, some people on this board have brought up their favourite "short musical moments", but it doesn't mean that they like that track, or the whole soundtrack, only because of those short musical moments. For example, the TFA end credits are my favourite end credits out of all the SW movies, but not because I like some small parts of it. It has a very strong structure, and the logic and fluidity with which JW manages to exhibit all the major TFA themes is virtuosic. I do have a favourite part (when Rey's Theme and the Force theme play together), but it is merely a favourite part in a beautifully sculpted and structured piece of music (IMO).

 

6 hours ago, Cantus Venti said:

After a few years, everyone has a Williams favorite for one random reason or another.

 

I don't get what you mean by this. Speaking for myself, I have a clear favourite Williams score, and I have pretty specific reasons as to why that is. 

 

6 hours ago, Cantus Venti said:

Anything becomes great once you listen to it enough.

 

Not true. Some things get better the more you listen to them, some things stay the same, and some things get worse. Where did you get this idea from?

 

6 hours ago, Cantus Venti said:

The only reason you're listening to it is because after 11 years, John Williams has come out with a new Star Wars soundtrack that is charmingly different. Just came out too. So either the (easily forgettable) music is going to magically grow on everyone, or it will be much more easily forgotten like all of the more simplistic and underwhelming scores, and the latter is the clear bet.

 

I listen to the soundtrack because I like it. It is one of the more "operatic" film scores written in recent times, and I think there are many moments in there which are particularly ingenious. There's no need for a person like you to come on here and try to convince us that the music is forgettable and won't be remembered in 10 years time, or that the "majority" thinks that it doesn't have "as much vision and talent" as his previous scores. As if I give a crap. I think it's great and I will certainly remember it!  

 

4 hours ago, Cantus Venti said:

Quote me all you'd like, I don't mind. But I will still edit my posts.

 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

So how many pages of inconsequential futility are we going to provide this guy? 10? 15?

[Datameister 2,037]

Ssshhhhh! Don't ruin the fun, Quint!

[mrbellamy 6,272]

We should be ashamed, the Tolkienites finished in only a couple pages!

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 hour ago, Quintus said:

So how many pages of inconsequential futility are we going to provide this guy? 10? 15?

 

A couple of months still till The BFG, gotta do something to kill time.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

My routine lately:

 

1. Click 'John Williams' sub-forum

2. See that 'Rey's Theme – John Williams' Best Theme Yet?' is the only one with unread posts

3. Click 'Mark forum as read'

[Cantus Venti 13]

 

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As if I give a crap. I think it's great and I will certainly remember it!  

 

I can't intend to comment on you, as that would require me to know too much about your individual psychology. People in general will remember it to certain extent, like any popular movie or like any Williams score, but the clear evidence seems to be that it will be forgotten, and when new Star Wars fans emerge after watching this "old" film, no one will even notice the music. This is unlike old films I've seen for the first time years after, "A New Hope" and "The Empire Strikes Back" old fans and new fans alike are still talking about the music and how amazing and ingenious it is.

 

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Not true. Some things get better the more you listen to them, some things stay the same, and some things get worse. Where did you get this idea from?

 

Most music improves the more people listen. It's a fact. And most types of music, for their unfamiliarity, gain understated qualities by a majority of chronic listeners. By anything, we mean music gaining tremendous popularity and/or hype tends to always fall under this phenomena, due to its quality being amplified by its exhibition (in the case of Star Wars, the quality of TFA's OST is amplified by the franchise, by its fans, by John Williams, and by people purposefully listening in more closely to find ways to appreciate its music.)

 

There have been individual cases where this hasn't happened, as nothing is absolute.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

1 hour ago, Cantus Venti said:

People in general will remember it to certain extent, like any popular movie or like any Williams score, but the clear evidence seems to be that it will be forgotten, and when new Star Wars fans emerge after watching this "old" film, no one will even notice the music. the clear evidence seems to be that it will be forgotten.

 

Where?

 

1 hour ago, Cantus Venti said:

Most music improves the more people listen. It's a fact.

 

Studies, please.

[KK 3,307]

7 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

We should be ashamed, the Tolkienites finished in only a couple pages!

 

 

 

Ah, I knew his name looked familiar...pity to see it surface again...

 

With all that being said, Cantus isn't wrong about one thing. As lovely as Rey's Theme is, it will not be one that is remembered for the ages, a distinction that some of the Prequel themes were able to achieve. Though I doubt this was ever Williams' intent, and think it bears no fault on the music, as Cantus might suggest.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I actually don't think it's possible to compose a theme, especially for the movies, with the intent of it becoming famous. It either happens or it doesn't.

 

No one figured the Pirates Of The Caribbean theme would become huge, yet it did.

 

The assertion that Rey's theme has failed because it won't be known to the masses 20 years from now is ridiculous. (There are many great Star Wars themes that aren't known to the general public)

[Wojo 2,453]

I went to college (started in fall 99) with a guy whose favorite theme was Yoda's Theme. 

[Tom 4,640]

5 minutes ago, Woj said:

I went to college (started in fall 99) with a guy whose favorite theme was Yoda's Theme. 

The dumbest guy in my fraternity became an architect after failing out of dental school. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Okay...

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Are you calling architects dumb?  That's one way to get a temporary female poster here, and if you think I can be difficult, well....

[publicist 4,643]

7 hours ago, Sharky said:

Studies, please.

 

Rubbish or not, at least it's fair to say that if people listen to something repeatedly they want to like it. Except for children trapped in parent's cars, being forced to listen to Léo Ferré chansons and ABBA - More Gold during extended holidays.

[Quintus 5,399]

My kids have had a smorgasbord of JW forced on them in the car. I say forced, but if I don't put it on they now ask for it. JW did always like his conditioning though didn't he, so I'm doing my part. 

[mrbellamy 6,272]

On 4/14/2016 at 5:32 PM, KK. said:

With all that being said, Cantus isn't wrong about one thing. As lovely as Rey's Theme is, it will not be one that is remembered for the ages, a distinction that some of the Prequel themes were able to achieve. Though I doubt this was ever Williams' intent, and think it bears no fault on the music, as Cantus might suggest.

 

I don't even know about "some" of the Prequel themes. Duel of the Fates is the only one that seems to have taken on a life of its own.

 

The thing about TFA, though, is just that the relentless pacing --  entertaining as it is -- means that there's really no moment where you get to truly revel in the music and to soak up either a thematic setpiece or a new character theme. Rey's Theme has the ability to really soar but it rarely gets the chance, it's always over about as soon as it begins and only three times in the entire film does it get a full orchestral statement (and I think the solo flute with the bread is the only other time besides those that it goes beyond the first 12 notes). This is unlike other Star Wars themes where a lot of them received notable full back-to-back statements in their films. The other major themes are also a bit brief in their appearances, March of the Resistance and obviously Kylo and Poe's stuff which are designed to be that way. As far as sequences that really have the right kind of slow continuous build for this kind of thing, I'm thinking of The Starkiller, Torn Apart, and Jedi Steps, none of which have core thematic material.

 

Also there's the fact that The Force Theme and Han Solo & The Princess nab some of the most emotionally resonant moments in the third act, while Scherzo for X-Wings is written entirely around Luke's theme and the Rebel Fanfare takes the biggest, loudest and proudest moments in the Falcon chase.

[Tom 4,640]

9 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Are you calling architects dumb?  That's one way to get a temporary female poster here, and if you think I can be difficult, well....

It is a quote from the little known show Seinfeld.  As to why, just my way of treating the conversation with the degree of seriousness it deserves.  People criticism Rey's theme because it will not be remembered 20 years from now?  Come on, that is only evidence 20 years from now.  We cannot use our speculations about the future as real evidence of anything in the present. 

 

Maybe it will be remembered, maybe not, we just have to wait.  I doubt the Force theme was an instant classic in 77 (though Luke's theme was), but it has endured. 

[JoeinAR 1,949]

It was an instant classic in 1977. Star Wars was much bigger than even The Force Awakens could imagine.

[Tom 4,640]

The main title was big, but I don't remember the force theme itself being whistled or whatever half-ass measure we are using.  Further evidence of that is Williams numerous concerts of his big themes did not include the force theme.  The inclusion of it in the throne room was 1990 or so. 

[publicist 4,643]

Wut? Even the Gerhardt suite in 1977/1978 featured the Throne Room sequence, as did the Mehta et al. It was always part of the concert suite.