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The Force Awakens - Complete Score Breakdown & Chronological Order (Film Spoilers Allowed)


Jay

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15 minutes ago, crumbs said:

They might have workshopped it on the scoring stage, when JJ decided to switch the shots around.

 

Yeah maybe. Although I still wonder - would the arranger really have access to sheet music of alternate versions? I mean, I guess if Jedi Steps was changed at the last minute, maybe they would have already been working with that other version...

 

15 minutes ago, crumbs said:

The final seconds of Jedi Steps always sounded a little unrefined to me, until I got used to it. I found it a jarring transition into the End Credits on my first viewing.

 

I remember when I first heard it the Force theme statement seemed like it took several years to finish. I kept thinking, "How much longer can he keep this going?!" That's not necessarily a bad thing, though. 

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6 hours ago, crumbs said:

They might have workshopped it on the scoring stage, when JJ decided to switch the shots around.

 

The final seconds of Jedi Steps always sounded a little unrefined to me, until I got used to it. I found it a jarring transition into the End Credits on my first viewing.

I had the exact opposite reaction. I loved how the Binary Sunset Force Theme segues into the End Credits. The new variation on it is wonderful and fits very well with the scene. I find it so much better than the rushed segue from the Binary Sunset music to the End Credits in ROTS. 

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3 hours ago, artguy360 said:

I had the exact opposite reaction. I loved how the Binary Sunset Force Theme segues into the End Credits. The new variation on it is wonderful and fits very well with the scene. I find it so much better than the rushed segue from the Binary Sunset music to the End Credits in ROTS. 

 

I guess I was also a little disappointed to have two Star Wars films in a row end with Binary Sunset as the big climax. His original music in Jedi Steps was far more captivating, IMHO.

 

I really hope the final cue of VIII is something original rather than another rehash of existing music or themes; AOTC and ESB are benchmarks in that respect. I also find their transitions into the first note of the end credits more fluid, not that I can explain why musically.

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6 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I found the reuse of Binary Sunset in TFA very appropriate in TFA. The old meeting the new, could Luke have envisioned this all these decades ago when he looked out into the horizon?

 

Now you're just falling for Disney's nostalgia-fest with all these new films. I have no issue with the reuse thematically, but JW was perfectly capable of writing something new for the occasion.

 

No matter, as we had a glorious end credits suite comprised of mostly new material!

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6 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

I guess I was also a little disappointed to have two Star Wars films in a row end with Binary Sunset as the big climax. His original music in Jedi Steps was far more captivating, IMHO.

 

I really hope the final cue of VIII is something original rather than another rehash of existing music or themes; AOTC and ESB are benchmarks in that respect. I also find their transitions into the first note of the end credits more fluid, not that I can explain why musically.

 

I totally feel you. Both ROTS and TFA have really awkward transitions to the credits. ANH, ESB, TPM, and AOTC all feature pretty incredible writing in those moments. All of them except TPM follow fairly conventional cadences that signal, "This is the end of the movie!" TPM just builds and builds in a less conventional way, but there's still a sense of tension and release. That's what's missing from the two Force-theme-based finales...the credits come as a weird surprise, not a satisfying resolution.

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7 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

I guess I was also a little disappointed to have two Star Wars films in a row end with Binary Sunset as the big climax. His original music in Jedi Steps was far more captivating, IMHO.

 

I really hope the final cue of VIII is something original rather than another rehash of existing music or themes; AOTC and ESB are benchmarks in that respect. I also find their transitions into the first note of the end credits more fluid, not that I can explain why musically.

From that perspective I agree. The use of Binary Sunset there is a great nostalgia kick but I too had hoped for new music, which we kind of get with the glorious transition music. But yes, I too want and hope for original music at the end of the film leading to the end credits.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Has anyone considered the fact that what we think is music for the parade grounds speech scene might actually be music for when the Starkiller fires? The thought just occurred to me. Seems a little weird that Williams would use the same idea in Torn Apart and Starkiller when the only similarity is just people dying. Wonder if the Starkiller music in the film and soundtrack were a late addition?

 

Might have to edit to see if the piece fits the scene at all.

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8 minutes ago, Romão said:

What music for the parade grounds speech are you guys talking about?

 

First half of this:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9NXlLWWQxRVQ0WGs/view

 

Second half is the alternate Torn Apart, a fragment of which appeared in the final cut.

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1 minute ago, Romão said:

Wow, that's pretty great :)


I think that's actually a truncated version of the cue, as well.

 

But yes, it's a brilliant cue and very old-school, prequel-era Williams. Another questionable omission from Abrams.

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@DominicCobb @crumbs

 

I did a score restore a while back. I can find the link for you later, Dominic.

 

In short, though: The edited version of the parade grounds cue that Crumbs linked to above (heard before "Ben!" in that link) fits the final film speech scene exactly.

 

So, even if the cue wasn't written for that scene, it's pretty obvious that it was at one point being considered for tracking.

 

And, given its tone, I would be very, very surprised at this point if it wasn't intended for that speech scene. 

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I can't imagine any other scene where that might have been written.

 

But it seems the film was heavily reshaped throughout post-production, with JJ unable to determine the tone of scenes until after hearing the music.

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Some thematic musings:

 

I've been puzzling a bit over what I call the First Order A and B themes and Snoke's theme. Listen below. 

 

Spoiler

First Order A theme:

 

 

First Order B theme:

 

 

Snoke's theme (the four notes under the ostinato):

 

 

 

Whoops, accidentially posted - but more to come!

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*Sorry for not embedding the YouTube videos and just giving the links*

 

I'll start with "the First Order B theme."

 

I've been calling it that because it was used, along with what is clearly a First Order theme ("the First Order A theme") in the unused parade grounds cue (see above in earlier thread posts today). 

 

However, I always knew this was on shaky ground because other uses simply don't support that association.

 

For instance, the example I used for the theme above in FYC "On the Inside":

 

 

It starts during the base infiltration, right after Han and Chewy dispatch some stormtroopers and move on further inside, trying to reach the oscillator. After about a second or two we cut to Rey and Finn running into the door control room or whatever it is, in order to open some doors for Han and Chewy. The theme's tension gets higher and higher as Rey works to open the doors. Then she's successful, and Han and Chewy head through the doors. The theme's appearance ends. 

 

While, obviously, the First Order is not entirely un-associated with this event (it's their base after all!), no First Order troops are present during the scene (save for the stormtroopers being killed right before). This is really about Han, Chewy, Finn, and Rey. So perhaps this theme signifies the Resistance, or "plotting"? 

 

Let's take a look at another appearance of the theme, then:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9cEg3TElmWGdUdW8/view

 

The above is probably an unused segment of the village attack sequence from the beginning of the film. 

 

It sounds very heroic, and in the documentary where Fennel Ka found most of it, it plays as we see Poe filming the Jakku attack sequence and Kasdan talks about him:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CHf948D2qE

 

Obviously that doesn't mean for sure that it would have played for Poe in the film, but somehow it feels right. It doesn't feel quite like it would underscore stormtroopers killing people or any other First Order evil.

 

Although, interestingly, the First Order is of course very prominent in that scene. 

 

We may have more support for a "good guys" association here. The "plotting" suggestion can't be entirely forgotten either, as it's possible that Poe was "plotting an escape" at this moment in an earlier cut. 

 

Oh, I just realized that there could be some connection here to the "Finn and the Villager" deleted scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvKbOF78s_E). For instance, this cue could have underscored Finn running, and then ended with those brass notes when he sees the villager right at the beginning of the scene. That might support a First Order association.

 

I also just realized it could be an alternate for the scene where Poe fights for a moment after giving the map to BB-8, and then ending with Finn and the blood streak. This might support a Resistance association of the theme. 

 

Crap - this stuff is crazy complicated! So much speculation.

 

Anyway, before I stop discussing this theme, there are a couple more things I want to note:

 

First, the village attack cue as heard on the OST also has some instances of the theme. But they seem to have been microedited out of the film. 

 

For instance:

 

 

Also, remember the parade grounds cue I mentioned earlier?

 

Well, very interestingly, the theme seems to be heard right after the Resistance is mentioned in Hux's speech!

 

See my score restore:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jiql72jh7bppy3g/TFA - Parade Grounds (Score Restore).mp4?dl=0

 

Now, the version of the cue you hear above was edited by the filmmakers to fit the final film scene; we know that a longer version exists (Fennel Ka has been able to piece it together). From what I've been able to gather, it seems that the longer version may have underscored Korr Sella aboard a Resistance ship traveling to Hosnian Prime, or something of the sort (http://makingstarwars.net/blog/2015/07/29/star-wars-the-force-awakens-and-the-happenings-at-kanatas-castle-part-1/). 

 

Because it was edited, we can't know for sure that Williams intended the exact match-up of music and picture that you see in my restore, but it is interesting to note a possible Resistance association here.

 

In any case, in recent days I've really started to think that this might not be a First Order theme after all. 

 

But why would the Resistance need another march-ish theme? And would Williams really write a theme for an abstract concept such as "plotting"?

 

What do you all think? @Datameister? @crumbs? Anyone else?

 

I'll ramble about some other thematic stuff I've been thinking about at a later time. ;)

 

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Is what you call the "First Order A Theme" used at all in the film outside of the end of the Village Attack cue?  I know it's in the unused rally cue, but is it anywhere else in the final score?

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1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

Is what you call the "First Order A Theme" used at all in the film outside of the end of the Village Attack cue?  I know it's in the unused rally cue, but is it anywhere else in the final score?

 

Yes. This appearance plays in the film as X-wings are about to emerge from hyperspace to bomb Starkiller Base. Not quite as overtly tied to the First Order as the other appearances, but I still think that's who the theme is for. Others have actually suggested it's for Starkiller Base, but I think the usage after the Jakku attack would be strange in that case. Although it's not impossible. 

 

 

I think that's the only other obvious appearance. 

 

EDIT: Oh, also...

 

 

The above one plays right as Finn tells Leia that Rey was taken prisoner, after she's thanked him and told him how brave he was to renounce the First Order. This could show a Starkiller connection and back up that theory, especially because they start talking about the base only a moment later. But it also could just show a First Order connection, backing up my current classification!

 

This theme is actually going to be the topic of another of my long-winded ramblings tomorrow (probably). 

 

Essentially, there are several other places where I think I might hear it, but it's hard to tell, unlike with the two obvious cases you mention and the Bombing Run one, whether they were intentional. (Furthermore, I've been wondering whether different notes but a similar general pattern could still mean an allusion to the theme.) For instance:

 

I Can Fly Anything

 

https://youtu.be/k3C83hzkg7o?t=59

 

The context seems right - it's right when they look up and see the TIE fighter! But I suppose it could be just a general stylistic Williams thing. There are other moments a little like that, I think -- I may go into more depth tomorrow and see what others think about them. 

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Man, there is a TON of film editing of this score, despite the presumably many rewrites. 

 

I was trying to compile a list of all cues with film editing of some kind, although I just abandoned it a bit of the way through as it would have required hours and hours of time - more complicated then I thought at the start! :(

 

There are some cues you remember have edits or don't have edits, but for the others it's very hard - particularly trying to prove that there aren't any edits in a cue! 

 

But I wouldn't be surprised if half or more of the cues here have some sort of editing.

 

Just look at the film's opening. 

 

YES indicates that some sort of composer intention (inserts are okay) was completely preserved. NO indicates that there was some sort of editing not intended by Williams (this can include dialing out or tracking).

 

Main Title - YES

Starry Night - YES

Village Attack - NO

I Will Show You the Dark Side (Lor San Tekka and Kylo Ren) - NO

Kill Them All - NO

 

(That said, the change in "Kill Them All" is extremely minor, and the other cues' more invasive microediting/tracking is mostly tastefully done - and "Village Attack" only has one microedit anyway, albeit one that cuts out a lot of material!)

 

I think a lot of people thought the score was treated really well because some major sync points are preserved, and some major cues ("The Resistance," "The Scavenger," etc. are all or mostly preserved) but there are a TON of little edits, in many, perhaps even most, cues. It's a mess.

 

I think @Fennel Ka could attest to this, given all the hard work he's done to fix these film edits for his edit. ;)

 

And that STILL doesn't count all of the cues JW had to rewrite or add inserts to! Even after all that, J.J. apparently still needed to shorten or lengthen scenes, or track music. 

 

Just shows how crazy J.J's editing style is (and perhaps all modern editing?) Be interesting to see how Rian does things. 

 

Here are some more cues that I think have editing:

 

Finn and Phasma

The Scavenger

Not for Sale

I Can Fly Anything

Rey Meets BB-8 and Back to Destroyer

Finn’s Trek

It’s in the Droid

Follow Me

The Falcon

The Droid Stole a Freighter

Rey’s Vision

Parade Grounds (The Last Day of the Republic)

Han and Leia

Precinct 47 (The Plan)

The Bombing Run

Torn Apart

Rey Gets the Lightsaber

The Trench Run

Finale (End Credits)


Etc. 

 

And some that I think play as intended:

 

Main Title

Starry Night

Stolen Jacket

Finn, I’m Rey (I Don’t Know Your Name)

You’re Han Solo!

Tasu Leech (Kanjiklub)

Arrival at Takodana

The Starkiller

Kylo Ren Arrives at the Battle

The Resistance

The Journey Home

Rey’s Trip

The Jedi Steps

 

Etc. 

 

(I could of course be wrong about either of the above lists - I didn't check too thoroughly because as I said I broke off my investigation!)

 

The really interesting thing is how some big action scenes have editing and some don't. "Village Attack" has a major microedit, but "The Resistance" plays right through as intended. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
5 minutes ago, ymenard said:

It's from a Reddit post on /r/starwarsleaks ... was this how JW scored it first?

 

Yes, it's an alternate version of a segment of "Torn Apart" (found in one of the Blu-ray documentaries). 

 

As Fennel Ka noted, however, it may be looped in a little part as heard in that video. He did his own score restore that seems to line up better. Maybe you can find it in the SW score restore thread here.

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Starry Night is certainly edited. It's up for debate what is an insert and what is tracking, but it's clear there are three different edits

 

- when the First Order motif comes in - probably an insert (:16)

 

- when the music picks up as the transports leave the destroyer - either tracking from when Starkiller Base is charging or the other way around (:23)

 

- when we cut to BB-8 and the horns die down (:50)

 

 

Pure speculation but I believe the sequence was originally edited differently, such that we didn't see the inside of the transports until they neared the village (when the excised music from the Village Attack would have been used).

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Well, we do know for sure the beginning was edited down because the film was originally going to open after the crawl with Anakin's lightsaber tumbling through space. I always assumed that's what the unused descending string gliss was for that we got from the beginning of the 60 Minutes special.

 

 

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The lightsaber opening had seemingly been abandoned by May 2015, judging by this PDF compiling spoilers from then that contains the exact opening we saw in the final film (or at least the exact very opening; interestingly, it's supposedly still a saber that's being handed over in this version, not a map!):

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByQR6taehVh7cTg5T0NzZzhKUlk/view

 

I am not sure what their source was on that, but they claimed they had 95 percent confidence.

 

Anyway, here's some info on the lightsaber opening:

 

In February 2015, Making Star Wars wrote this (https://makingstarwars.net/2015/02/star-wars-the-force-awakens-opening-sequences-the-opening-of-an-adventure/):

 

Spoiler

The film does open with a lightsaber in space. It falls to the ground in a savannah environment during the day. It is quickly discovered by a farmer named Naka. Naka accidentally ignites the weapon and starts a fire with it. At first he runs, but then turns around and obtains the weapon. I assume he snatches the weapon so it is not destroyed in the fire.  Naka then takes the weapon to his elder called The Vicar.

 

The Vicar is most likely played by Max von Sydow. It is most likely a code name too. Chances are they didn’t need to name the character during filming so they just went with the title The Vicar. Anyways, the Vicar appears to contact the Rebels and this brings Poe Dameron to the planet.

 

Later that night, Poe Dameron arrives and retrieves the lightsaber from The Vicar. The only problem? They’ve brought the Empire there as well (not sure if the Empire followed Poe or intercepted the initially transmission he received). Poe sees Stormtroopers are coming and he places the laser sword safely in a little droid: BB-8. The droid flees and the heroic Poe Dameron prepares to fight!

 

In March 2015, Making Star Wars wrote this (http://makingstarwars.net/2015/03/star-wars-the-force-awakens-the-village-people/):

 

Spoiler

On December 18th, 2015 you will read an opening crawl and then:

Exterior Night-Space/Savannah A lightsaber tumbles through space, crashes towards the ground.

Exterior Day-Savannah Lightsaber lands – dawn into day – a strange hand appears.

Exterior Night- Outskirts of Village BB-8 is troubled by something coming and hurries off.z

Exterior Night – The Village BB-8 pushes towards the vicarage.

Interior-Night – The Village Vicarage Vicar hands over the lightsaber. Poe is grateful, BB-8 rolls in.

Exterior Night – The Village Vicarage Poe sees Imperial Transports approach. Vicar tells Poe to go.

Exterior Night – Village Poe and BB-8 rush through the village as residents prepare for battle.

Exterior Night – Rise near village/X-wing Poe gets his ride ready, BB-8 too. Poe sends message.

Exterior – Night – Village Imperial Transports land; Stormtroopers get into disagreement with villagers.

Interior – Night Village  Stormtrooper Transport Finn and Stormtroopers leave the transport under fire.

Exterior – Night The Village Finn’s buddy is not well. He leaves a mark on Finn. (Note concept art depicts the mark as blood from a wound–the friend touches Finn’s helmeted face, leaving three blood marks on it.)

Exterior – Night Rise Near near village/X-wing Poe sends message, sees another Imperial arrive.

Exterior – Night – The Village A huge Imperial shuttle lands beside the Stromtrooper transports.

Exterior – Night – The Village Vicar watches Flamethrower Stormtroopers. Finn spares a villager. Kylo Ren arrives.

Exterior – Night Village/X-wing Poe watches Kylo Ren’s arrival from a distance.

Exterior – Night The Village Vicarage Kylo Ren confronts the Vicar.

Exterior – Night The Village/X-wing Poe watches the confrontation and BB-8 wants to get moving.

Exterior – Night- The Village – Vicarage Kylo Ren out is out of patience, says “goodbye” to the Vicar.

Exterior – Night – Rise Near Village/X-wing Poe sees sudden end, hides lightsaber in BB-8. They go their separate ways.

Exterior – Night – Village/X-wing Stormtroopers make a mess of Poe’s X-wing.

Exterior – Night – Outskirts of Village (Desert Location) BB-8 watches as Stormtroopers depart, huge fireball.

Exterior – Night – Outskirts of the Village BB-8  watches as Stormtroopers destroy Poe’s ride (backlot)

CG Exterior – Night – Star Destroyer in the Distance Imperial Troop Transporters and Kylo Ren’s shuttle head for the Star Destroyer.

 

Who knows if JW scored it. This would appear to show that that opening had already been abandoned by the time sessions started, but it was seemingly filmed and very well could have still been in play when JW started writing. Maybe J.J. could have then had him record that just in case. 

 

EDIT: I've found some more info and will post soon! Very complicated!!

 

For now, I will note that it has been officially confirmed (i.e. at least not entirely an incorrect interpretation by Making Star Wars):

 

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/05/04/the-force-was-with-us-mark-hamill-confirms-old-star-wars-scoop

 

Quote

Talking to The Sun Hamill explains how the first script for The Force Awakens he read opened: 

 

“I can tell you now that in the original opening shot of 7, the first thing that came into frame was a hand with a lightsaber, a severed hand that enters the atmosphere, and then the hand and bone burns away and goes sticking into the surface of Jakku” he added. “and this alien hand comes in, don’t know if it was Maz but it was an alien hand who takes the light saber way, and then the movie proceeds as you see it.”

 

And he said: 

 

"One website had the first 15 minutes of The Force Awakens totally accurate."

 

EDIT #2: Okay so to stir the pot a little more (note the scene numbers, the top one of which was later confirmed in a BTS video that shows the snapping card thing or whatever you call it - https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com/index.php?threads/the-force-awakens-all-trailer-clips-in-chronological-order.6700/#post-169175):

 

https://makingstarwars.net/2015/03/star-wars-the-force-awakens-first-teaser-decoded-shot-for-shot/ (from March 2015)

 

Quote

3  INT NIGHT IMPERIAL TROOP LANDER Stormtroopers wait in cramped silence, Finn is out of sync.

 

11  INT/EXT NIGHT VILLAGE/IMPERIAL TROOP LANDER Finn and Stormtroopers leave the Troop Transport under fire.

 

The above number 3 exactly matches that of the final film, assuming the opening crawl counts as a scene. The number 11 probably does, although I haven't checked. So those definitely do not support a lightsaber opening (however, does that mean there couldn't have been a lightsaber opening being concurrently considered even at that late time?)

 

Oh, there's also this:

 

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/current-film-rumors-no-discussion.50028227/page-2

 

It tries to compile Making Star Wars' reports, ending up with another interesting idea of how the opening scene might have played out. 

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The opening sequence has a different context based on that. Presumably all the shots of the map module were pickups/digital alterations; originally Max Von Sydow gave Poe Luke's lightsaber and Kylo Ren came to retrieve it.

 

Wonder how it ended up getting from BB8 to Maz in the original cut, or how the map module was introduced in that version. I prefer the theatrical version, more straightforward.

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That was a very interesting point that @DominicCobb made about the massive Village Attack microedit. 

 

I'd also treated that microedit as distinct from the Starry Night mess, but I've now started to wonder whether there might be some connections. 

 

As a reminder, here is Fennel Ka's compilation of how he thought an alternate version of the Starry Night sequence might have gone:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9OXRoNnNxWE9uZGs/view

 

On his actual final edit he removed that "Han Solo" section (you'll know what I'm talking about if you listen) and made that a separate track, so keep that in mind - he doesn't really seem to think the sequence included that exactly as you hear. 

 

What ... a ... mess. 

 

I don't feel like spending any more time right now analyzing it, but you're free to use the information I provided to do you yourself. 

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I'm not even sure how they'd assemble an expanded score for TFA. It clearly wasn't a case of JW recording whole cues then writing a few alternates; the entire film seems to have changed radically throughout scoring, resulting in multiple alternates for tonal changes and a slew of inserts chasing endless timing changes because the term "locked cut" doesn't exist in JJ's vocabulary. All topped off with a final cut that takes elements from different iterations of cues plus inserts.

 

Gotta wonder, was Murphy actually referring to TFA in his Google interview when he said something along the lines of, "complete versions of some cues don't necessarily exist"?

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8 minutes ago, crumbs said:

I'm not even sure how they'd assemble an expanded score for TFA. The whole scoring process seems like a total mess. Certainly not just JW recording whole cues then doing a few alternates; the entire film seems to have changed radically throughout the scoring process (even after) resulting in alternates on top of alternates on top of inserts trying to chase endless timing changes.

 

I don't actually think it would be too complicated to give us everything important (at least not too complicated for a competent producer).

 

Really, I think Fennel Ka's edit serves as a good example of how it would be done.

 

Main program: All cues in their "final form" (including inserts, and music that was edited out of the film)

 

Extra music: "Alternates" for cues - often, perhaps rather than giving a separate track for each alternate segment, alternate segments could be tied together in certain cases to make one track (Fennel Ka does this sometimes in his edit)

 

I do see what you're saying though. I'm just being an asshole. ;)

 

8 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Gotta wonder, was Murphy actually referring to TFA in his Google interview when he said something along the lines of, "complete versions of some cues don't necessarily exist" ?

 

What would that even mean? 

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5 minutes ago, Will said:

What would that even mean? 

 

Possibly that JW started writing inserts for versions of cues that were editorially created (a mix of different alternates)?

 

As opposed to recording a "clean" new version of each cue that changed, perhaps they did more 'extended inserts' which aren't necessarily whole cues on their own.

 

Not sure.

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  • 2 months later...

Indeed, @toothless, the perfect sync point hits at both the Stormtrooper fist raise and, even more so, the first planet explosion are absolutely thrilling. 

 

There's a very high chance that the destruction scene was temped with "Lament." Hard to say about the speech scene with "It Can't Be," but it's definitely very possible. 

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