Jump to content
Jay

The Force Awakens - Complete Score Breakdown & Chronological Order (Film Spoilers Allowed)

Recommended Posts

I can't wait to hear what he creates for the first order/ our main characters. I suspect Finn will have a more recognizable theme and same with po and maybe snoke? I wonder how he will deal musically with Rey/Luke scenes, besides Rey's theme/ the force theme. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, JacksonElmore said:

Or he's just setting stems for bigger ideas in the next few films. Like in a new hope, Vader had a very minor theme, and in esb he had a bigger one. I sense that the little themes for po and Finn and Kylo  will all grow into bigger themes. As the characters develop, they will musically as well. I hope. 

I'd certainly be game for that!

 

But Vader's Theme from A New Hope did not really evolve musically into the Imperial March, did it?

The March seems more like a complete replacement theme, as if Williams had a better idea for the sequel.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as we're talking about very motif's heard in tfa, does anyone else hear the similarity here?

 

The Rathtars! (0:34-0:39)

 

On The Inside (0:05-0:09, 0:10-0:14, 0:14-0:16)

 

 

 

On a side note, it reminds me of Giacchino's material for LOST

 

 

5 hours ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

 

 

But Vader's Theme from A New Hope did not really evolve musically into the Imperial March, did it?

The March seems more like a complete replacement theme, as if Williams had a better idea for the sequel.

 

 

Hopefully same thing happens with Kylo ren's theme lol.

But yeah, you're right

 

I like Kylo's theme a lot, but wouldn't mind if it were temporary 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

Was there ever a thread with a list of all known themes from TFA? I thought there was one, but haven't been able to find it.

 

I don't think so. @Jay, do you remember such a thread?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the subject of the Imperial March in A New Hope, I've always thought that that the music when Obi Wan is revealed sounded a bit like the opening of the March.

Likewise when Luke was revealed in The Force Awakens.

 

Am I just hearing things or us there indeed some similarity?

If so, could it be in any way intentional? Does it mean anything?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

On the subject of the Imperial March in A New Hope, I've always thought that that the music when Obi Wan is revealed sounded a bit like the opening of the March.

Likewise when Luke was revealed in The Force Awakens.

 

Am I just hearing things or us there indeed some similarity?

If so, could it be in any way intentional? Does it mean anything?

To my mind there is nothing in ANH that sounds like the Imperial March outside of possible coincidence. JW wasn't even thinking about the Imperial March when he scored ANH, Instead the film has 1 short motif for the Empire/Death Star and I think a separate short motif for stormtroopers. 

 

In TFA the similarities to the Imperial March when Luke is revealed is, I think, purposeful because JW wanted Luke's reveal to be mysterious and ambiguous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

On the subject of the Imperial March in A New Hope, I've always thought that that the music when Obi Wan is revealed sounded a bit like the opening of the March.

Likewise when Luke was revealed in The Force Awakens.

 

Am I just hearing things or us there indeed some similarity?

If so, could it be in any way intentional? Does it mean anything?

Don't think it means anything but I hear it in the ob1 case, not tfa tho.  I mostly hear the imperial march similarities in anh at the beginning of imperial attack

16 hours ago, Will said:

@JacksonElmore

 

I don't think that melody is a motif. Just a coincidental similarity. It's not the only one in the score.

I don't  think it is either, I meant to say "very minor possible motifs" (based on the B Theme for the first order you uncovered) but i guess I didn't type it out lol. Oh well. I was just noting the similarity 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For reference, the "similar to the Imperial March" statements I am referring to are in:

A New Hope, "Landspeeder Search, Attack of the Sand People" at 02:40

The Force Awakens, " The Jedi Steps and Finale " at 00:58

 

Both sound to me like they're almost ready to go into the Imperial March.

But for sure they aren't actually the March. I'm just reminded of it in those spots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LongTimeJWFan said:

I'm finally done with the first passthrough, but am going back to work on Jabba Flow. Those descants are still missing so I'm thinking of dusting off the Neumann and recording them myself...

 

You close enough to San Francisco to stop by for a screening? We could even do an isolated score double feature (A New Hope or Empire).

P81A5725.jpg

jesus that would be awesome. Unfortunately i live in Boston. But when you are done with the isolated score, are u going to share it? I would love to listen to your hard work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's certainly the clearest indication yet this is another motif for the First Order, along with that ascending brass statement (heard most clearly after the opening crawl and preceding the first scene with Snoke but barely audible, see below).

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I finally had a chance to watch your score restore video, @Will.  Great work!  I actually think it could have worked quite well to have left that cue in the movie! (Though mixed a little lower so you can hear all his dialogue, of course).


Thanks for doing this!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, igger6 said:

 

UPDATE: Aaaaand, I see that Will was on this idea in June.  Anyway, I stand behind my second two paragraphs. B-)

 

You're late to the party ... but still welcome. :P

 

8 hours ago, Jay said:


Thanks for doing this!

 

My pleasure. :)

 

-------

 

I have one correction to my long post explaining the parade grounds scene and score:

 

The Drive file that I said contained the complete cue is not in fact complete. 

 

Here is the Drive file that Fennel Ka thinks is complete: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9M25DdDFScmQzOTQ/view?usp=sharing. It's about 5 seconds longer than the "complete" (not actually complete) one I had posted before. (You may need to convert this Drive file to another format to listen to it; I had to do so.)

 

As of this time I still think the extra music that's in the complete version but not the microedited one (the one I used in my video) was simply intended for a group of since-cut shots that would fit in at :48 in my video -- which would mean that each moment of the microedited cue lines up with the film exactly where JW had intended. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, igger6 said:

Holy mackerel!  Great work, Fennel Ka and Will!  The coolest part of this discovery in my book is that it's a slam-dunk confirmation of that "daaaaah-duh DAAAAAAAH-duh....daaaaah-duh DAAAAAAAH-duh DAAAAAAAAH-duh daaah" motif—the one that closes out track 1 on the OST—as a theme for the First Order.  It blows my mind that there's an entire thematic identity reduced a single appearance in the film and on the OST.  Does this show up elsewhere that I'm not aware of?

 

Yes, there's that first statement as the First Order returns to the Star Destroyer after the opening battle ("Kill Them All"), there's a subtle one as Finn and Poe look up at the TIE fighter as they prepare to make their escape ("I Can Fly Anything"), obviously it's in the parade grounds cue, and then there's another statement early in "The Bombing Run" as the Resistance fighters prepare to come out of lightspeed and attack Starkiller Base. Oh, and there's a statement in "Finn and Poe, United" at the end when Finn is telling Leia that Rey's been taken prisoner. This statement is heard right after she commends him for renouncing the Order and right before she says they need intel on Starkiller and Finn says that's where Rey was taken. 

 

Actually, some think it's a theme for Starkiller Base, but I disagree. I think it's for the First Order in general. 

 

Speaking of First Order themes, you and @crumbs might be interested in these older posts of mine:

 

In which I discuss what I believe to probably be the First Order B theme. This theme is heard along with the main First Order theme in the parade grounds cue. 

 

@igger6

 

Quote

Sometimes I think we don't really know this score at all, especially with the hour or whatever of alternates that apparently exist.  Remember: tons of great TESB music (like the Echo Base reveal or the snowspeeders taking off) isn't technically a part of the film or the OST.  Heck, Jabba's Theme is barely on the ROTJ album.  The only reason I consider that music a part of the fabric of that film is because of my exposure to it in video games and on the Special Edition albums.  If I'd been around in 1980, I wouldn't even know it existed.  How much else might there be like that out there for TFA?  And since Abrams' editing was so much more indecisive and iterative than Kershner's, and Williams' scoring so protracted, in how many versions might this stuff exist?  I'm sure we've already seen the best of it, but still, the mind boggles.

 

Oh yes. In the case of the First Order main theme (the one heard near the end of the first OST track) there could well have been more statements recorded that we haven't heard yet. Maybe there are some in Williams' sketches that were never recorded. Who knows. I wonder if maybe this theme was supposed to have a bigger role but they went another direction.

15 hours ago, crumbs said:

It's certainly the clearest indication yet this is another motif for the First Order, along with that ascending brass statement (heard most clearly after the opening crawl and preceding the first scene with Snoke but barely audible, see below).

 

 

 

I've always thought those little ascending brass statements were all just coincidentally similar -- due more to Williams' general sense of how to write "bad guy music" rather than any purposeful thematic connection. But who knows, maybe it's a little "First Order ships" motif. :)

 

There's actually another similar brass bit, aside from the two you mentioned, as the TIE fighters return to the Star Destroyer right after Rey meets BB-8 and they walk off towards the horizon. 

3 hours ago, Hawmy said:

Incredible @Will. That's amazing. I definitely don't have that much dedication.

 

More of an unhealthy obsession than healthy dedication. I have too much time on my hands before school starts Tuesday. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Fennel Ka said:

Hey Will, could you do a video with those brass notes from the FYC version of Kill them All placed over the beginning of Finn Vs. Kylo?

 

Could you clarify which brass bit you're referring to?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Fennel Ka said:

The part that opens FYC track Attack on Jakku Pt. 2 that was edited out of the end of Torn Apart.

 

That's what I thought you meant. 

 

Except ... :00-:10 in that FYC track is definitely in the film; and :10-:15 might be in the film -- it's hard to tell with the loud sound effects. So, at most, I'd be restoring about 5 seconds of (not particularly interesting, IMO) score. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay @Will, here's one that popped into my head overnight and now I can't stop thinking about it.


Is it just me, or are the first 4 notes of Poe's Theme and the Starkiller/Tragedy theme basically the same? I'm guessing there's no relationship here and they just happen to follow the same ascending-descending-ascending note progression, but I hadn't noticed until now.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Will said:

 

That's what I thought you meant. 

 

Except ... :00-:10 in that FYC track is definitely in the film; and :10-:15 might be in the film -- it's hard to tell with the loud sound effects. So, at most, I'd be restoring about 5 seconds of (not particularly interesting, IMO) score. 

Well I think it might be a Finn related Motif.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will, great job on the restoration. It's interesting to see how this was meant to be scored.

 

About the music, though: in my opinion, that cue absolutely trashes that scene. Thank God it was cut. I think Williams is as strong a composer as ever, but I've felt many of his recent films have suffered from an excess of music. He's either forgotten how effective silence can be, or else his directors have just asked for too much music in spotting. It's hard to explain why I find this Hux music so grating, but it makes me feel like I'm watching the prequels. It turns the scene into B-movie material. The melodrama is totally unjustified and ridiculous.

 

Some of my favorite moments of TFA are the ones without music: Rey's introduction, Finn's discovery of the crashed TIE Fighter, Han and Kylo's confrontation. Does anybody really believe that Han and Kylo's scene needed more elegiac, weepy strings right from the get-go?

 

But I do love the alternate cue for Han's death! In that case, I feel Abrams played it too safe in a moment where all-out melodrama was appropriate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, crumbs said:

Okay @Will, here's one that popped into my head overnight and now I can't stop thinking about it.


Is it just me, or are the first 4 notes of Poe's Theme and the Starkiller/Tragedy theme basically the same? I'm guessing there's no relationship here and they just happen to follow the same ascending-descending-ascending note progression, but I hadn't noticed until now.

 

 

 

Interesting. I hadn't noticed that before. Definitely a coincidence though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Fennel Ka said:

Well I think it might be a Finn related Motif.

 

Really? It seems like a rather typical, almost generic figure to me. Do you have any other examples of this supposed motif?

 

In any case, if I have time to do another score restoration sometime I would probably want to do it for something more "major" (e.g. the Force theme Han's death alternate).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Jay said:

 

 

ew

Yeah it was a pretty cringe worthy comment on my part

17 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:


ew-er

can i redeem myself at all by saying it's senior year of college and i'm studying film scoring?

19 hours ago, Will said:

 

Yeah, first day of high school for me. 

hope it went well, first days can really suck sometimes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/6/2016 at 4:05 PM, JacksonElmore said:

 

hope it went well, first days can really suck sometimes

 

It did go well, mostly. :)

 

I have a super old-school "general music" (i.e. music reading and history) teacher. He's super strict. I still think it will be a fun class, though -- I'm pretty good at following rules so hopefully that won't be a problem.

 

But some of the things he says (paraphrasing)...

 

"I've been studying music for decades. Don't even try to argue with me and tell me pop music is better than art music. It's not art music. We're here to learn about art music. I know what I'm talking about; what I say is correct."

 

"I rejoiced when I saw the story about the kids who fell off a cliff playing Pokemon Go. Serves them right."

 

He has a newspaper clipping near his door saying something like, "Child Self-Esteem Culture Takes Well-Deserved Hit." 

 

He never smiles, unless it's sarcastically. He uses a VCR to play note reading videos. He doesn't have a class website, unlike every other teacher. 

 

The class is crazy tense. Nobody talks out of turn. Dead silence. 

 

In spring we'll be writing an essay on a topic of our choice. I bet you can guess what composer I'll be writing about... ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, LongTimeJWFan said:

Though many have noted that Burning Homestead (Track 1-09 Episode IV) was intercut with Track 20 The Ways of the Force in the final version of the film, another cue from the Attack on Jakku Village was also intercut at the beginning of the attack of Starkiller base. Please see the attached link for reference:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0mRKLHTnMDdcXY1akFtTEQ2azA/view?usp=sharing

 

Yeah! However you forgot to switch the music at 0:50 :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...