The Force Awakens The Force Awakens - Complete Score Breakdown & Chronological Order (Film Spoilers Allowed)

[Datameister 2,037]

I've also been puzzling over the opening of the film. Ever since my first viewing (and listening, especially), I've felt like something was "off" with the transition into the Mars-esque ostinato near the beginning of "The Attack on the Jakku Village." It sounded like there was some editing there. Now that I'm more closely studying the later cue that underscores Ren destroying the interrogation room and Starkiller Base beginning to charge, I'm positive that this transition was tracked from that cue.

 

There's also the obvious shared ostinato material, but at least some of that was clearly arranged and recorded separately. And I think it was the weapon charging cue that inspired the opening, not vice versa - we know from the 60 Minutes feature that Williams wrote at least one alternate version of the opening, using the same twinkly introduction followed by a shorter, more darkly militaristic passage for the stormtroopers. Now I feel pretty sure that sometime after that cue was recorded, Williams wrote a new version incorporating material from the weapon charging cue...and then that transitional flourish was awkwardly edited into it too at some point.

[Faleel 5,340]

I don't agree, I think that the Weapon's Charging cue uses tracked material from The Attack of the Jakku Village film version, you can hear other parts of the same cue used later on in between Rey getting the Lightsaber and the Scherzo.

[Datameister 2,037]

That tracked material in the aerial battle was from an apparent insert for the village attack cue (which was itself a separate cue from the opening), so that tracking doesn't tell us anything, I'm afraid.

 

We know the opening was a rewrite (and presumably a fairly late one), and there are real differences between the opening and the end of the weapon charging cue, meaning that two versions of that material were definitely recorded. Doesn't my theory - that Williams rewrote the opening based on the existing weapon charging cue, with a little help from that artificially tracked flourish - make the most sense?

[Faleel 5,340]

Could you use the timestamps from these videos to point out what you are referring too? I think I could be misunderstanding you.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9X3JrZ28xZHJJbG8/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9bGxlejg1QUxsNlU/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9OXRoNnNxWE9uZGs/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9d0hlNXlzc0dKVU0/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9dFVDSjFmVmxZaVU/view?usp=sharing

[Datameister 2,037]

0:56 in the first video is tracked into the film/OST/FYC version of the opening. I'm positive with that one, since you can hear a bit of the preceding brass crescendo sneak in there when the edit occurs.

 

Then the militaristic stuff that's skipped near the end of that same video...I'm not sure, but I think that was actually written originally for that scene. Then at some point, Williams had to do a rewrite of "Opening / Starry Night", and he based part of it on that existing material. But it wasn't just tracked - you can tell because the material right at the end of the passage you skipped is different, and not in a way that could have been produced through editing. The result of this rewrite was the film/OST/FYC version of the opening, albeit without that flourish that was clearly tracked.

[Faleel 5,340]

IMHO, The passage I skipped is tracked in. The ending music is tracked into Rey's Vision.

[Datameister 2,037]

Again, there are differences between the passages, differences that couldn't have been created editorially. Listen to the away the rhythm changes as we transition into that high dissonance - that's nowhere to be found in the opening, and there wouldn't have been a way to create that rhythm editorially and have it sound so natural.

 

I'm also not sure what that dissonant passage being tracked into Rey's vision has anything to do with anything, to be frank, haha.

[Faleel 5,340]

20 minutes ago, Datameister said:

I'm also not sure what that dissonant passage being tracked into Rey's vision has anything to do with anything, to be frank, haha.

Well, Rey's vision tracks both the Dissonant ending, and the brass swells for Ren's freakout, meaning they are from the same cue.

The transitions in and out of the Militaristic material just sound edited to me.

[Datameister 2,037]

2 minutes ago, Faleel said:

Well, Rey's vision tracks both the Dissonant ending, and the brass swells for Ren's freakout, meaning they are from the same cue.

 

I'm not claiming that they're from different cues. In fact, I think the cue for Ren's freakout and the base charging is largely unedited in the film, and parts of it were tracked into several other scenes, including the opening and Rey's vision. That tracking says nothing about the question at hand: the question of which scene or scenes that militaristic, Mars-like music belongs in. I'm claiming that it belongs in both, that two different versions of it were recorded, most likely with the opening version being based on the weapon charging version.

[Datameister 2,037]

Oh god, I didn't realize what a mess the village attack material is. Based just on comparing the OST and the FYC/film version, I'd assumed the FYC version just contained an insert and some different microedits. But based on bonus features audio, the situation is a lot more complicated than that. At this point, I'd say that between the OST and the FYC, there are at least three or four cues partially represented - and this is just for the battle music, not for the starry night cue that precedes it. Inserts upon inserts. It's possible to reconstruct them to some extent, but there's still some music missing - and this isn't even taking into account a fragment in the features that I believe to be part of a completely unused early alternate cue for this scene. What a mess! The only other Williams score I know of that even comes close to this level of rescoring is POA.

[Giftheck 916]

We need the sheet music for this, desperately. Or a score leak. Sadly, they're about as likely to happen as each other.

[crumbs 14,300]

Is the likelihood of sessions leaks completely random? Or do the variables of film studio, recording label or recording location (London, LA) play a part? I'm curious if there's any trends of particular film studios having more sessions leaks than others. 

 

I guess you'd assume Williams scores would be the most guarded of any composer, but we have gotten our fair share of high profile leaks (Minority Report, KOTCS, HP1 & 2) which span cities (LA and LSO) and studios (Fox, Paramount/Lucasfilm and Warner Bros).

 

Point being, could the Disney/LA factor be a cause for optimism here?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

While there have been session leaks for Williams scores, to my knowledge they always took years to leak. So I wouldn't hold my breath for a TFA leak any time soon.

 

 

[Demodex 557]

You guys are never happy with what you're given. The more you investigate and find a few seconds of music that wasn't released the more you complain. If you just listened to the scores and not worried about all this stupid stuff you'd be happy like me. 

 

A good example is the complaining about the Temple of Doom scores having a minute difference to them from the film. You guys were up in arms whereas 99.9% of listeners would never notice or even know what you're taking about. 

 

Just listen to the releases and be happy. They don't even have to give us as much as they do. 

 

[crumbs 14,300]

With an attitude like that, I may as well be satisfied with Williams' original 40 minute Return of the Jedi album!

 

There's over an hour of unreleased, unheard music from this score. What's the problem with being curious about what it contains? The alternate for Han's Death, alone, is probably a better cue than what many other composers write on their best days, and it didn't even make the final cut!

[Jay 37,287]

I've never heard of a Williams score leaking less than 3 years after its film was out, sadly

[Datameister 2,037]

2 hours ago, Demodex said:

You guys are never happy with what you're given. The more you investigate and find a few seconds of music that wasn't released the more you complain. If you just listened to the scores and not worried about all this stupid stuff you'd be happy like me. 

 

A good example is the complaining about the Temple of Doom scores having a minute difference to them from the film. You guys were up in arms whereas 99.9% of listeners would never notice or even know what you're taking about. 

 

Just listen to the releases and be happy. They don't even have to give us as much as they do. 

 

 

I am happy. Figuring out puzzles like these is enjoyable for me, as is discovering new bits of music. Comparing your post to mine, I only see one that I would describe as complaining, and it ain't mine.

 

While we're in this whole dictating-how-others-should-feel mode, I would tell you to stop giving a damn how other people enjoy music. But you do you, boo.

[Jilal 569]

2 hours ago, Demodex said:

You guys are never happy with what you're given. The more you investigate and find a few seconds of music that wasn't released the more you complain. If you just listened to the scores and not worried about all this stupid stuff you'd be happy like me. 

 

A good example is the complaining about the Temple of Doom scores having a minute difference to them from the film. You guys were up in arms whereas 99.9% of listeners would never notice or even know what you're taking about. 

 

Just listen to the releases and be happy. They don't even have to give us as much as they do. 

 

 

???

 

The problem is that most, if not all of the TOD master tapes were transferred at a wrong speed. A direct consequence of this is an increment in pitch which varies from track to track, causing the transitions between various cues (when edited together) to sound "off"

[Giftheck 916]

It's interesting listening to the film channels, because you can hear a few places in the rears that indicate where certain pieces would have ended or started, particularly for the "Village Attack" cue.

[Faleel 5,340]

Kind of like how you can hear the clean opening of the end credits in the BR 7.1 rears?

[Giftheck 916]

Precisely.

[Datameister 2,037]

 Yeah, the mix varies quite a bit between the channels, as do the relative levels of the cues. Pretty interesting - and useful.

 

EDIT: Thanks for bringing this up, Gistech - it prompted me to revisit that section in the rear channels, and I made sense of something that'd been troubling me.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

Why is the music mix in the first film of each trilogy such a mess? I thought TPM was confusing...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

A mess? Really?

 

TPM was the best sounding if the prequel scores.

[Will 2,215]

I think he's referring to the editing (placement into the film), not the mixing.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Then his comments make no sense. Star Wars (1977) has the best editing and spotting of all the Star Wars films.

[Datameister 2,037]

That being the case, I'd point out that ANH wasn't edited too much - ESB and ROTJ got it a lot worse. And as for the prequels, AOTC was hacked up nearly as badly as TPM. So I wouldn't describe the issue as being unique to first films.

[Will 2,215]

I'm really surprised how little discussion there's been about the TFA alternates/unused cues. This one - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9ZG41dVRqaVlhLWs/view?pref=2&pli=1 - in particular I have found to be absolute gold. I've speculated that it's Williams' intended music for Rey Meets BB-8; does anyone else have any other ideas?

[Loert 2,510]

Sounds like it's related to Yoda's Theme!

 

It could be something to do with BB-8...wasn't the intended version the one that's labelled "Rey Meets BB-8" in the OST, but was then moved near the end (after the Starkiller explodes)? Or are you suggesting that that unused cue is the first "draft" that Williams wrote for Rey meets BB-8, and the one in the OST is an alternate?

[Will 2,215]

Basically, nearly identical music is heard during the Rey Meets BB-8 scene and the R2 Shows The Map scene. According to one of the Jason LeBlanc's posts in which he analyzed those two cues....

 ...

 

Quote

So, about the 0:00-1:10 part [of the OST track Rey Meets BB-8]....  parts of it is used in both the scene where Rey and BB8 meet AND the scene at the very end of the movie when R2 wakes up and projects the map to the room.  Well after some careful analysis, I've decided its absolutely intended for that end scene, and was TRACKED into the Rey/BB8 meeting scene in the final cut of the film.

 

Quote

Now, the scene where Rey meets BB8, well in that scene 0:24-1:00 of the OST track is used, before it segues to something else entirely (unreleased) as the movie transitions from Jakku back up to Ren's Star Destroyer.  WELL, I'm pretty sure that that ending music is the only remnant left of Williams' intended music for the scene, the rest of it having been replaced by that chunk of "R2 Shows The Map".  I think the filmmakers just really liked that Map music and felt it worked in the Rey/BB8 scene and that was that.

 

So this is a bit of a mess. Really, the reason I think the unknown cue could be a version of the opening music for the Rey meets BB-8 scene is that in the Secrets of TFA documentary it was heard during BTS footage of the filming of that scene. Also, it just seems to have the right tone for the scene.

[Datameister 2,037]

I'm not 100% convinced that cue is Williams' work. There's some other stuff in the features that's definitely not. But if it does belong to this score, I agree that it's probably from that scene. We know with near-complete certainty that the music heard in that scene was written for the map scene at the end - there's even a glimpse of Williams' sketch for the cue in a YouTube video, and although the cue title's not visible, the sync points are. It refers to C-3PO waking up at the start of the cue. (Presumably, Williams meant to write R2-D2 instead.)

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

8 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Then his comments make no sense. Star Wars (1977) has the best editing and spotting of all the Star Wars films.

Ok every first film in each trilogy except ANH... so that's like, two films. Ah whatever you guys just derailed my post. xD

[Will 2,215]

2 hours ago, Datameister said:

There's some other stuff in the features that's definitely not. 

 

What? Can you name some examples? I watched all the features and I thought it was all definitely Williams. 

6 hours ago, Bill said:

I'm really surprised how little discussion there's been about the TFA alternates/unused cues. This one - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9ZG41dVRqaVlhLWs/view?pref=2&pli=1 - in particular I have found to be absolute gold. I've speculated that it's Williams' intended music for Rey Meets BB-8; does anyone else have any other ideas?

 

By the way, I must credit Fennel Ka (aka Faleel) for the above Google Drive file of the cue (a rip from a documentary). 

On 4/5/2016 at 9:21 PM, Fennel Ka said:

 

Here is a Pizzicato version of the Action theme from Follow Me, The Falcon, and The Rathtars, I think this might be the music for Reys manuever with the Falcon that was tracked over with part of Kylo Ren Arrives at the Battle.
 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9c3JzYmhsd25aanc/view?usp=sharing

Here is that unknown march that Crumbs called "Unremarkable":

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9di1wODhVOWwwS00/view?usp=sharing

 

 

Fennel Ka, the two above links no longer work. Would you be able to fix that? Thanks.

[Datameister 2,037]

3 hours ago, Bill said:

 

What? Can you name some examples? I watched all the features and I thought it was all definitely Williams. 

 

Most of the music in Building BB-8 isn't Williams. Probably library music of some sort. The others use Williams music for the most part - the main possible exception being that cue we were talking about, which could be his...but I just don't think so. It's a little too harmonically simplistic.

[Will 2,215]

12 hours ago, Datameister said:

 

Most of the music in Building BB-8 isn't Williams. Probably library music of some sort. The others use Williams music for the most part - the main possible exception being that cue we were talking about, which could be his...but I just don't think so. It's a little too harmonically simplistic.

 

Huh. I'll have to watch Building BB-8 again. 

[Faleel 5,340]

Data I will have to respectfully disagree, I think that could be part of the score and here is why:

1: It sounds like a live orchestra recording to me, most library stuff I come across is instantly recognizable as synth
2: Its really short and has a clean opening and ending, most library stuff I come across is longer (even if the whole library cue is not used).
3: It sounds similar to some moments in the score (IMHO)
4: Aside from Jabba Flow, I believe all of the music used in Secrets of The Force Awakens is Williams?
 

Here you go Bill:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9cEg3TElmWGdUdW8/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9Zi1iVXU1X3c5VzA/view?usp=sharing

[Datameister 2,037]

I could be wrong, but something feels off stylistically. (If it was part of this score after all, perhaps that was why it went unused?)

[Faleel 5,340]

I am just going to point out that one of the sources for that cue had the right channel delayed slightly, so that might have a small part in why it sounds off?

[Datameister 2,037]

Thank you, but that's not it - I'm talking about the non-glitchy parts, and their stylistic inconsistencies with Williams' work.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

That stuff is definitely from a sample library. Sounds nothing like Williams, and it is certainly not the Hollywood Studio Symphony. Also I recognize the melody, can't remember what it's from, but it's somewhat of a classical melody, or at least based on that. Most of the tracks are synth percussion as well. Disney uses a lot of sample material like that in their bonus features.

[Will 2,215]

10 hours ago, Fennel Ka said:

 

Here you go Bill:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9cEg3TElmWGdUdW8/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9Zi1iVXU1X3c5VzA/view?usp=sharing

 

Thanks!

 

In response to the discussion of the possible sample library cue: 

 

That cue is just so good though, I'm having trouble coming to terms with it not being Williams... Hopefully we can get a definitive answer on whether this is him. 

[Datameister 2,037]

13 hours ago, Fennel Ka said:

Here you go Bill:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9cEg3TElmWGdUdW8/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9Zi1iVXU1X3c5VzA/view?usp=sharing

 

Where did you find the second half of that first link? EDIT: Never mind, should have listened more closely to the Target features.

[Datameister 2,037]

Now that I am listening more closely to the Target features, I'm hearing part of a cue that was probably written for one of Finn's saber fights, probably the one with the stormtrooper. And hot damn, is it good. Should have been on the OST.

[Faleel 5,340]

Any Ideas on this one? https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxQSwI5aPja9enFVYXBVM2dDOWc


Figured I should put all the alternates and unknown bit links into one post for ease of access later:
 

The full unedited Han and Leia portion of the Finn and Poe, United (Alternate), but in lower quality.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9aDI0aC1IYWtMY3c/view?usp=sharing

Another Unknown Cue (perhaps alternate Jedi Steps?)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9cFd2bUp5cmVCUU0/view?usp=sharing

More of the Pizzicato Finn/Action Motif

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9Zi1iVXU1X3c5VzA/view?usp=sharing

Unknown action cue:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9TDFMWXNOZjF6bUU/view?usp=sharing

Alternate "I Will Show You The Dark Side"

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9dFVDSjFmVmxZaVU/view?usp=sharing

Fuller Unknown March

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9cEg3TElmWGdUdW8/view?usp=sharing

 

Here is the Trombone alternate of Torn Apart that Mr. Big pointed out:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9bElQcnlMa1FVM1U/view?usp=sharing

Here is the alternate ending to Kill Them All:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9d185TWVHOXdoWGM/view?usp=sharing

Here is the other Village Attack alternate:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9d0hlNXlzc0dKVU0/view?usp=sharing
 

Here are some Starry Night alternates:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9OXRoNnNxWE9uZGs/view?usp=sharing

Here is an alternate section of The Rathtars!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9ZXA2ZUhYd2RDcG8/view?usp=sharing

Unknown March:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9cEg3TElmWGdUdW8/view?usp=sharing

Unknown Pizzicato:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9Zi1iVXU1X3c5VzA/view?usp=sharing

Possible Landing at Lightspeed Alternate:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9Y1dlX0JOMDc5cWM/view?usp=sharing

And here is what I believe is the full version of the Unknown buildup cue:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9M25DdDFScmQzOTQ/view?usp=sharing

 

[Giftheck 916]

That fading chord at the end puts me in mind of the chords that preceed Kylo Ren's theme in "Village Attack Part 2".

[Faleel 5,340]

In case it gets passed over in the wall of links above:

Here is what I believe is the full version of the unknown Building cue we hear right before the Han's death alternate:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9M25DdDFScmQzOTQ/view?usp=sharing

Possible Landing at Lightspeed Alternate:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9Y1dlX0JOMDc5cWM/view?usp=sharing

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

7 minutes ago, Fennel Ka said:

Possible Landing at Lightspeed Alternate:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9Y1dlX0JOMDc5cWM/view?usp=sharing

Finn's theme at the beginning? 

[Datameister 2,037]

I'm getting "unable to process this video" errors.

[Will 2,215]

Me too.

[Faleel 5,340]

Hmm probably because I have been rendering the videos without any actual visual content (and rendering at 1x1 resolution, 1% quality etc.)