KK 3,307 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Dunkirk isn't really a historical film, nor does it pretend to be one. It's essentially a thriller set in a chapter of history. Much like Gravity is just a thriller set in space. Having established those ground rules from the start is what makes Dunkirk work as it does. I've never felt a pacing problem with Inception. Whether you like it or not, it's a very smooth film. Interstellar on the other hand, could definitely use some trimming. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 There's no pacing problem with Inception, no. I think I switched around Inception and Interstellar there. It's adrenaline, the movie is quick, fast-paced, but not too fast that things cannot be processed. It was actually pretty epic to watch. Interstellar and Inception are both movies I enjoyed, but Interstellar was too long, yes. Not in a gradual Lawrnece of Arabia way where I'm just looking at sand for elongated shots, but still a bit long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,000 Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, KK said: Dunkirk isn't really a historical film, nor does it pretend to be one. It's essentially a thriller set in a chapter of history. Much like Gravity is just a thriller set in space. Having established those ground rules from the start is what makes Dunkirk work as it does. I've never felt a pacing problem with Inception. Whether you like it or not, it's a very smooth film. Interstellar on the other hand, could definitely use some trimming. I'm not a fan of what you'd call a historical film...mostly because they're all lies...one way or another. It's what happens when you have to tell a coherent "three-act" story based on real events and be faithful to those said events. Pretty much impossible and thus renders the entire genre pointless. History is better served by non-fiction books. Fiction is more honest in cinema. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Never thought the history particularly mattered very much in those films. But what I do like to hear/see is a filmmaker present thoughts of some sort on the matter. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,000 Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 Just now, KK said: Never thought the history particularly mattered very much in those films. But what I do like to hear/see is a filmmaker present thoughts of some sort on the matter. Well it does and doesn't. You seem like a clever educated bloke who can tell things apart. But will an average audience member? Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 36 minutes ago, KK said: Nolan mechanics are written all over the work, almost to a fault. Can you name me a few? Because I tend to agree that it's an anti-Nolan film, especially when it comes to pace/info ratio. 32 minutes ago, KK said: Just wish he'd really challenge himself out of his comfort zone a little bit. He did, with Dunkirk, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/christopher-nolan-taps-hereditarys-jennifer-lame-new-movie-1197862 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,515 Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 A woman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Scorsese prefers female editors as well, Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,515 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Alexcremers said: Scorsese prefers female editors as well, Richard. Your powers of observation do you credit, Mr. Alex. I know, and a fine editor Mrs Powell is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt C 452 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 His latest project has a title: Tenet. https://deadline.com/2019/05/christopher-nolan-tenet-movie-cast-release-date-1202620596/ Interesting that Zimmer isn't working on this, but Ludwig Goransson. That's a big step up. Mr. Who 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 Goransson? Wow. That guy is really on a roll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 That's huge. Curious how that happened, but I'm happy for Goransson. Shame though, because without Nolan in the mix, there isn't much to look forward to creatively with Zimmer's future output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 What a boring title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,055 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 On 3/20/2019 at 8:37 PM, KK said: Dunkirk isn't really a historical film, nor does it pretend to be one. You don't know much history then. Its tagline was even The event that shaped our world. But who cares about European history, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lord Zimmer 211 Posted May 22, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, KK said: That's huge. Curious how that happened, but I'm happy for Goransson. Shame though, because without Nolan in the mix, there isn't much to look forward to creatively with Zimmer's future output. Son of a.... Jurassic Shark, Bilbo, The Illustrious Jerry and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: You don't know much history then. Its tagline was even The event that shaped our world. But who cares about European history, right? I'm still waiting for his explanation on how Dunkirk isn't an anti-Nolan movie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 30 minutes ago, KK said: That's huge. Curious how that happened, but I'm happy for Goransson. Shame though, because without Nolan in the mix, there isn't much to look forward to creatively with Zimmer's future output. He would probably be busy with Dune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,055 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 Yeah, busy commanding all his minions around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 33 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: You don't know much history then. Its tagline was even The event that shaped our world. But who cares about European history, right? Lol. You clearly missed my point. But I don't know how much clearer that original post could have been, so I'll just re-quote the whole thing for you? On 3/20/2019 at 3:37 PM, KK said: Dunkirk isn't really a historical film, nor does it pretend to be one. It's essentially a thriller set in a chapter of history. Much like Gravity is just a thriller set in space. Having established those ground rules from the start is what makes Dunkirk work as it does. 26 minutes ago, John said: I'm still waiting for his explanation on how Dunkirk isn't an anti-Nolan movie! It's been discussed to death here, especially on my end. But to sum it up for your convenience: everything from how it's triptych structure plays with time and pacing (this time with a literal ticking clock, no less!), to how it aims to overwhelm with spectacle, to its typical (and now cliche) "emotional" third-act wrap-up screams quintessential Nolan. Just because there isn't much dialogue this time, doesn't make it any less Nolan... It's a fine film. I don't have much reason to revisit it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 Dunkirk was sleepy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, Romão said: He would probably be busy with Dune Ah yes. That is something to look forward to. So Zimmer's finally picked the Kanadian over Nolan eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt C 452 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 On 4/8/2019 at 6:33 PM, Richard said: A woman? Nolan worked with Dody Dorn on Memento and Insomnia... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 22 minutes ago, KK said: Ah yes. That is something to look forward to. So Zimmer's finally picked the Kanadian over Nolan eh? It’s strange that he wouldn’t have gone with someone Zimmer associates with though. Maybe they had a falling out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 28 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Dunkirk was sleepy You’re sleepy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 Maybe Zimmer will do Godzilla vs Kong instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 28 minutes ago, Bilbo said: You’re sleepy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Matt C said: His latest project has a title: Tenet. https://deadline.com/2019/05/christopher-nolan-tenet-movie-cast-release-date-1202620596/ Interesting that Zimmer isn't working on this, but Ludwig Goransson. That's a big step up. Ludwig for Avatar confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Yeah, busy commanding all his minions around. I like throwing a round a few jabs every now and again, but isn't this enough anti-Zimmer propaganda for now? I'm excited for Dune, and Goransson working with Nolan is an encouraging step-up for the fellow, who I believe shows a lot of promise. All things in time, but I have high hopes for The Mandalorian too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zimmer 211 Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 Should have gone for Justin Hurwitz. Goransson is boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Koray Savas 2,251 Posted May 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 23, 2019 Matt C, Incanus, crocodile and 6 others 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 On 3/20/2019 at 8:37 PM, KK said: Dunkirk isn't really a historical film, nor does it pretend to be one. It's essentially a thriller set in a chapter of history. Much like Gravity is just a thriller set in space. Are you sure? With Dunkirk, Nolan is describing an operation during the war that really happened, albeit with fictional characters. Some even call it the most honest and precise WWII movie ever created. Gravity, however, is completely fictional. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Dunkirk doesn’t have characters - it has figures. Its more of a vehicle for IMAX than a narrative film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Didn't you say the same about 2001: ASO? Like Kubrick, Nolan mainly told the story with images and music. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Oh, 2001 and really most of the 60s epics were absolutely vehicles for Cinerama, VistaVision and 65mm in much the same way that Dunkirk is for IMAX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Alexcremers said: Didn't say the same about 2001: ASO? Like Kubrick, Nolan mainly told the story with images and music. True, but which of the two is the better film, you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 6 hours ago, Alexcremers said: Are you sure? With Dunkirk, Nolan is describing an operation during the war that really happened, albeit with fictional characters. Some even call it the most honest and precise WWII movie ever created. Gravity, however, is completely fictional. Historical fiction is still fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: Historical fiction is still fiction. ? Operation Dynamo isn't fiction. 1 hour ago, Stefancos said: True, but which of the two is the better film, you think? Does it matter? Nolan made a movie where dialog doesn't drive the story. I liked it and thought it was very ballsy of Nolan, or at least it was something out of his comfort zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 9 hours ago, Alexcremers said: Are you sure? With Dunkirk, Nolan is describing an operation during the war that really happened, albeit with fictional characters. Some even call it the most honest and precise WWII movie ever created. Gravity, however, is completely fictional. I'm not putting its accuracy to question. I'm saying its motivations are ultimately less tied to emulating history (as most historical films are) than it is to creating the particular cinematic experience Nolan was after. I don't know where the silly idea came from that I didn't think Dunkirk was associated with history... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Alexcremers said: ? Operation Dynamo isn't fiction. Does it matter? Nolan made a movie where dialog doesn't drive the story. I liked it and thought it was very ballsy of Nolan, or at least it was something out of his comfort zone. Historical fiction is fiction that takes place in historical settings. I am sure you know that. Gone with the Wind is based in the Civil War. The Civil war isn't fiction but the movie and story is. Saving Private Ryan depicts Normandy and aftermath. They arent' fiction. But the movie is. It is historical fiction. The Dunkirk story isn't fiction. But the movie Dunkirk is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, KK said: I don't know where the silly idea came from that I didn't think Dunkirk was associated with history... Because you said it wasn't a historical movie but a thriller like Gravity. That sounds like you're saying the story is as bogus as Gravity, while I've heard Nolan based himself on firsthand accounts for his movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 The historicity of a film doesn’t matter, anyway. As always, the questions to be asked are simple: What was the movie about? did you find it entertaining? Did it move you? Anything else is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 57 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: Historical fiction is fiction that takes place in historical settings. I am sure you know that. Gone with the Wind is based in the Civil War. The Civil war isn't fiction but the movie and story is. Saving Private Ryan depicts Normandy and aftermath. They arent' fiction. But the movie is. It is historical fiction. The Dunkirk story isn't fiction. But the movie Dunkirk is. So every movie that isn't a documentary using real footage isn't historical? Is that what you mean? To me historical films are either based on true events (like Dunkirk) while others (like Gladiator) are completely made up. If someone says to me, "Oh no, Dunkirk is fiction", then this means that person is telling me it's made up or fantasized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,000 Posted May 23, 2019 Author Share Posted May 23, 2019 17 minutes ago, Alexcremers said: So every movie that isn't a documentary using real footage isn't historical? Is that what you mean? To me historical films are either based on true events (like Dunkirk) while others (like Gladiator) are completely made up. For me, historical films are the ones where the characters are actual real people and things that happen to them also happened in real life. Gladiator, Saving Private Ryan and Dunkirk would be what I call "historyesque" films. Karol KK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 9 minutes ago, crocodile said: For me, historical films are the ones where the characters are actual real people and things that happen to them also happened in real life. Gladiator, Saving Private Ryan and Dunkirk would be what I call "historyesque" films. Karol You make no distinction between something that really happened and fantasy? Like KK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 What croc said. Historical films are films with a focus on real historical narrative and real historical characters. These films often play like history lessons packed into an entertainment module. Dunkirk has different intentions. Anyway, we're arguing semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,331 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, KK said: Historical films are films with a focus on real historical narrative and real historical characters. These films often play like history lessons packed into an entertainment module. Dunkirk has different intentions. Does it? I don't see the difference. In fact, I thought Dunkirk leans more towards a documentary than most other movies, since it completely focuses on the event itself and not on the actors and other mainstream conventions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Its certainly not documentary-like in how the shots are composed. TheUlyssesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Alexcremers said: So every movie that isn't a documentary using real footage isn't historical? Is that what you mean? To me historical films are either based on true events (like Dunkirk) while others (like Gladiator) are completely made up. If someone says to me, "Oh no, Dunkirk is fiction", then this means that person is telling me it's made up or fantasized. It IS historical. I say it is. But it is historical fiction. Using history as a backdrop. Would Titanic be a real story for you? The events portrayed in the film happened and might even be said to be largely accurate. But it still has a story added to it and is historical fiction. Dunkirk the movie IS made up. Are you telling me the people played by the actors were all 100% real people? That every single moment shown in the film is 100% historical. No right? You don't believe that. Because it is not true. Dunkirk tells the story of a few characters involved in a real historical event. Hence it is historical fiction. 7 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Its certainly not documentary-like in how the shots are composed. This. It is shot and cut like a thriller edge-of-the-seat pulse-pounding mainstream Hollywood summer blockbuster movie. It is far far far far far far far far far far far far far from a documentary in any way, shape or form. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now