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What to expect from Episode VIII's Score?


Unlucky Bastard

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If I recall correctly, BB-8 is associated with the same "'Unknown' Chords" that Doug Adams idenfied in the score to the original Star Wars. Look for them in the "Throne Room" concert setting. They just denote mystery: in the original Star Wars - that of the Tatooine desert as the Droids land there. In The Force Awakens - the map (more so than BB-8 itself) and the mystery of Luke's whereabouts. 

 

So not only are they not specific to BB-8, but I would argue that they aren't really a leitmotif, either. Rather, they're just a Williams' device of creating a sense of intrigue, and as such can be found in several of his scores. See the music for the Ark of the Covenant and for the Crystal Skull in the Indiana Jones films. Its also, allegedly, one of Williams' classical references, in this case said to be lifted from Stravinski's Rites of Spring.

 

I do think he will provide one of the unusual creatures in this film with a thematic identity. It might be his only way of injecting levity into this score.

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Yes, that little Terminal rip did accompany R2-D2'S awakening. I don't think there's any other material that relates to the droid other than in that scene. Who knows, maybe Williams will write something for BB8 and the other new droids?

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39 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Who knows, maybe Williams will write something for BB8 and the other new droids?

 

He might, but there are already going to be plenty of new characters and plot elements for him to write themes for, I believe. He isn't one to write a large number of leitmotives per a single film: He doesn't like to keep it too dense, he wants the themes to have time to "breath" and he doesn't want the audience to get the different themes mixed up.

 

Again, a good way to look at how Williams builds his catalogue with each film is to look at the themes as suggestions of various emotional "dimensions" of the film: Idealy, he would have one theme in each category: a heroic theme (e.g. Luke's), a romantic or lyrical theme (e.g. Leia's), a pensive theme (e.g. Ben's), a playful theme (e.g. Jawas), a menacing or evil theme (e.g. Death Star). Depending on the mood of the film, there might be a tragic theme (e.g. the Lament theme) and/or a motif of mystery and revelations (e.g. the conspiracy motif). This also goes to explain some of his more "romantic" uses of his themes.

 

Williams tries to achieve this balance, even if it means to make more of a character or plot point than is strictly necessary, which he might do here with something like the Porgs. The more the film suggest a certain mood (e.g. a more tragic one a-la Revenge of the Sith) the more themes will Williams write in that vein, or use his one theme more prominently.

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3 hours ago, toothless said:

I'd like a "Flag parade" like piece in TLJ (mainly because it's one of the best Star Wars piece when played Live).


To elaborate… I think I don't want a "flag parade" like piece. What I meant is, I do have one tiny regret with TFA. This score is different, which does not make it less awesome. That being said it lacks the grandeur in a way. It lacks tracks like Flag parade, Duel fo the fate, etc. I'm not asking necessarily for "choir" or "epic stuff" as if I was a troll on a youtube comment section. But rather, I don't know… Some grandeur to the music. But I know it's completely related to the picture. As an exemple we could have had this in TFA in the Hux Speech scene but it was decided to go with no music. Same thing goes for the first time we arrive on the resistance base. I think we could have had several more shots of the base, its places, its organisation, etc. This could have led to some great musical moments. Instead of that we have a truncated version of the "March of the resistance", too bad. I guess what I'm trying to say it that I want more room for the music to breathe, which is like saying on JWFAn that John Williams is a great composer. In other words I'm stating the obvious. :P

But hey, whatever we think, the music is here to help the director's vision so…

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1 hour ago, toothless said:

What I meant is, I do have one tiny regret with TFA. This score is different, which does not make it less awesome. That being said it lacks the grandeur in a way. It lacks tracks like Flag parade, Duel fo the fate, etc. I'm not asking necessarily for "choir" or "epic stuff" as if I was a troll on a youtube comment section. But rather, I don't know… Some grandeur to the music. But I know it's completely related to the picture.

 

That's the main issue with The Force Awakens, and I feel about it more strongly. Maybe its because I'm thinking of it as a cinematic tool first, and as an album experience, second. Its an issue that's part in the writing, part in the ensemble (both in quantity and quality), and part JJ's editing. There are many scores, where "needs more epic" is a nitpick, but with Star Wars is a central part of the aesthetics of the music.

 

There is never a moment in this film where the audience's attention is drawn to the score. No moment where the music hits the audience over the head. It happens all over the place in previous Star Wars films. It happens in the Middle Earth scores. It happens in Braveheart. It happens in the Force Awakens - but only in the very end, really, and even than it does so using existing themes, rather than establish anything new.

 

So, yes, The Last Jedi needs more epic. If it achieves this, the Force Awakens could be framed dramatically as the music "finding its way again", as it were. But something tells me that the issue lies with Williams' writing, itself. And we know the ensemble stays the same, as well.

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I disagree that TFA lacks any sense of grandeur. Some films, like TPM will call for parades and epic duels, and others simply don't. The greatest sense of any grandeur to me has to be the finale, from the destruction of Starkiller Base to Rey's journey to find Luke, and finally, the Jedi Steps. 

 

I don't know, but wouldn't it seem slightly odd and perhaps a little out of place if Williams had scored it any bigger, any peppier, full of choral passages and huge fanfares? TFA isn't the type of film that demands Prequel-Williams.

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7 hours ago, Chen G. said:

There is never a moment in this film where the audience's attention is drawn to the score. No moment where the music hits the audience over the head.

 

No offense, but that's a rather ignorant presumption to make. You are assuming the entire audience shares your opinion on the film's score. I, for one, noticed a multitude of scenes in TFA where Williams' music made a scene 100x more memorable and enjoyable, and I'm sure there are many on this forum that agree with me. Granted, there are plenty out there that may share your viewpoint, but don't try to assume everyone has the same opinion as yourself.

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59 minutes ago, Arpy said:

I don't know, but wouldn't it seem slightly odd and perhaps a little out of place if Williams had scored it any bigger, any peppier, full of choral passages and huge fanfares? TFA isn't the type of film that demands Prequel-Williams.

 

You're making it sound like it's a small, house-bound drama. If anything, The Force Awakens has a greater scale than the original Star Wars, and the brass in that score is incredibly "epic."

 

A lot of it again is down to the performers: it's a smaller section and different kind of horns.

10 minutes ago, JohnSolo said:

 

 

No offense, but that's a rather ignorant presumption to make. You are assuming the entire audience shares your opinion on the film's score. I, for one, noticed a multitude of scenes in TFA where Williams' music made a scene 100x more memorable and enjoyable, and I'm sure there are many on this forum that agree with me. Granted, there are plenty out there that may share your viewpoint, but don't try to assume everyone has the same opinion as yourself.

 

Don't worry, I'm not easily offended.

 

I'm not saying the score is impercievable or doesn't enrich the film. I'l clarify myself: a lot of scores operate on the audience without making them conscious of the music, but with most of the scores that we would consider "epic" there is at least one or two moments where the audience becomes conciously aware of the music. The Force Awakens doesn't do that.

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13 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I'm not saying the score is impercievable or doesn't enrich the film. I'l clarify myself: a lot of scores operate on the audience without making them conscious of the music, but with most of the scores that we would consider "epic" there is at least one or two moments where the audience becomes conciously aware of the music. The Force Awakens doesn't do that.

The tender introduction of Rey in The Scavenger I think appropriately tells the audience this is something different - about the character and the story. 

13 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

You're making it sound like it's a small, house-bound drama. If anything, The Force Awakens has a greater scale than the original Star Wars, and the brass in that score is incredibly "epic."

Not at all, TFA is a different beast altogether. It has "epic" moments for sure, but it doesn't demand the high-strung choral embellishment that the prequels had (and used rather effectively to their benefit). Follow Me, The Falcon, The Ways of the Force, Scherzo for X-Wings, most of the Starkiller finale material all contain brilliant moments of energy and action and fit the film like a glove.   

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34 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I'm not saying the score is impercievable or doesn't enrich the film. I'l clarify myself: a lot of scores operate on the audience without making them conscious of the music, but with most of the scores that we would consider "epic" there is at least one or two moments where the audience becomes conciously aware of the music. The Force Awakens doesn't do that.

 

From the very beginning of the film, I was consistently, consciously aware of the score. Simply due to the fact that its a Star Wars film with a Star Wars score, I believe that's enough to capture the average moviegoer's attention. Again, this is all subjective. Whether or not you actually paid attention to the score throughout the film is entirely up to you.

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I think, the seventh score is, apart from two great themes, less distinct than the rest and that's why many fans are a little bored by it and remain unimpressed. Hopefully, the next score will have a more certain stylistical direction and won't be such an action material mess.

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Watch it go unscored like the Finn/TR8R fight. :stick:

 

I'm excited for the tone of this score. Doesn't seem like it could be very similar at all to TFA, probably will require more aggressive music than anything he's written since 2005. Bring it on!

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3 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

Watch it go unscored like the Finn/TR8R fight. :stick:

 

Well, technically he did score it, but we could only hear it in terrible quality from a documentary. ;)

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Yeah it's awesome. Sounds like his prequel writing. 

 

On another note, I have an old rumored tracklist I found that I want to share:

 

Spoiler

Main Title and The Attack On D'Qar

Kylo Rens Failure

Luke's Despair

Welcome Back

The Praetorian Guard

Snokes Warning

Chewies New Friends

The Massacre

Big Deal

Journal Of The Whills

Kylo Ren Arrives

Finn And Rose

The Force Tree

Casino Jam

On The Run

The Battle Of Crait

The Eclipse

Snoke Arrives

Leia's Sacrifice

Ben Solo

Return Of The Jedi

Prisoner

The Crash And Finale

 

For several reasons, however, the Reddit poster seems a little dubious, at best. However, more interestingly another poster responded with this:

 

Quote

I can't prove what I know so this will probably be downvoted to hell but I am certain that this is fake. A family friend is involved with the soundtrack and he relayed a few titles when we last spoke. Again, I have literally no proof of our conversation so you can either choose to believe me or disregard what I say completely but one of the track titles I was most excited about is "Binary Sunrise" which is missing here. Additionally, there's no sign of "The Supreme Leader's Entourage" and "Poe's Dilemma" which he also mentioned.

 

And this!

 

Spoiler

Not much, in truth - he said that there's a lot of mixing motifs (i.e. the melody of Rey's Theme is subtly blended into a lot of other themes) and that the last track is sublime (it's currently under the working title "Reunion"). He also said that the orchestra had been pushed for time with TFA but that they'd had more time to get the TLJ soundtrack sounding "crisp and clear".

 

In regards to that supposed last cue (speculation starts here):

 

Spoiler

I wonder if the film ends with a reunion between Luke and Leia at the hanger on Crait. This would most certainly lead to a "sublime" cue, and Hamill and Fisher were photographed together in costume on a set that looked like Crait (although they could have just moved them there for the photo). Furthermore, Leia appears to be waiting for someone in this beautiful shot from the trailer:

 

Screen-Shot-2017-10-09-at-7.19.28-PM.jpg

 

This would be the perfect way to end the film, particularly if Rey has been captured or something else bad has happened. 

 

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I don't believe any of these "leaks". Disney and JW's usual team are super tight lipped. Things may leak after the fact, but usually not before. Someone giving track names verbatim with the listening party writing down the names sounds too far into made up territory. Also, don't forget the very detailed impressions of cues recorded we got for TFA, none of which turned out to be true.

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38 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

I don't believe any of these "leaks". Disney and JW's usual team are super tight lipped. Things may leak after the fact, but usually not before. Someone giving track names verbatim with the listening party writing down the names sounds too far into made up territory. Also, don't forget the very detailed impressions of cues recorded we got for TFA, none of which turned out to be true.

Yeah, plus the description sounds super boring.  "Thematic intermingling" is all fine and good but the defining feature of a Star Wars score?

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I'm not expecting a new Star Wars Oxygen series on the score, given they haven't had a new episode in 10 months.

 

Is it true that Collins had a falling out with RFR?

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1 hour ago, crumbs said:

I'm not expecting a new Star Wars Oxygen series on the score, given they haven't had a new episode in 10 months.

 

Is it true that Collins had a falling out with RFR?

 

The RFR facebook page has been responding to people's questions about Oxygen to the effect that Disney are putting pressure on David to be more tightlipped, seeing as he is involved with them in a professional capacity (as a voice actor). I don't know if it's true, or if it's just because David's got a new child, or he doesn't have time or maybe he got sick of Jimmy Mac (easy to do).

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1 hour ago, Docteur Qui said:

The RFR facebook page has been responding to people's questions about Oxygen to the effect that Disney are putting pressure on David to be more tightlipped, seeing as he is involved with them in a professional capacity

 

Bummer! Still, I don't see why he can't analyse the scores as presented on album (his industry insider tidbits are always good listening but I can see why Disney might want to keep that stuff in-house).

 

It's basically free publicity for Disney Records by promoting the new soundtracks.

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On 10/10/2017 at 6:01 PM, Will said:

For several reasons, however, the Reddit poster seems a little dubious, at best. However, more interestingly another poster responded with this:

Quote

I can't prove what I know so this will probably be downvoted to hell but I am certain that this is fake. A family friend is involved with the soundtrack and he relayed a few titles when we last spoke. Again, I have literally no proof of our conversation so you can either choose to believe me or disregard what I say completely but one of the track titles I was most excited about is "Binary Sunrise" which is missing here. Additionally, there's no sign of "The Supreme Leader's Entourage" and "Poe's Dilemma" which he also mentioned.

 

 

 

 

Hmm... the track title "Binary Sunrise" would go quite nicely with...

 

Spoiler

... The supposed scene of Luke meditating on the rocks and imagining he is staring out at the suns of Tatooine. 

 

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It’s funny.  You could spoil a true franchise-shifting plot point for me and it wouldn’t be a big deal, but a small character moment like that is something I’m a little sad I’ll be expecting.

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