[FILM] The Star Wars Prequels

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Notice how Palpatine is there throughout the whole rescue and they don't actually give him any dialogue at all.

[Jay 37,359]

8 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

The opening battle of ROTS tries too, with some very awkward banter between Anakin and Obi-Wan, which mostly falls completely flat.

Exactly.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Attack of the Clones - I think I should get my free Subway now.

 

Who else remembers the three-year build up to this movie? The fun speculations, crazy fan theories, dodgy fan trailers, hell even some hilarious fan scripts floating around. And they were even worse than what we got! Then there was the official stuff like those selected on-set photos released every week, some of them pretty abstract, and then those lame 'On Location' videos with Ahmed Best harassing Fox Studios Australia employees. Thems woz fun timez!

 

Then the movie was released and offered a series of even more WTF moments than what we got in TPM. Still, we were reluctant to dismiss it because deep down we felt this was probably as good as it was ever going to get.

 

Storywise, it's far more focussed and self-assured than its predecessor. But the political mumbo-jumbo is as incomprehensible as it was before. Was it so necessary for Palpatine to devise this elaborate divide & conquer plot to take over the galaxy, dependent on so many variables that could have gone cataclysmically wrong for him? A simpler plan would have made this mess easiet to understand. I think the old bastard just got lucky.

 

Lucas' ambitious attempt to tell a love story is one of the most horrific ordeals in recent movie memory. Mike Stoklasa would probably comment that this pair look like something from a JC Penny catalogue. Oh farrrrk, who could forget what a fine piece of arse Natalie Portman was in 2002? She still is (she's only 34 now for crissake), but her sex appeal was amped up to 11 as an obvious device to set Anakin's Force-powered testosterone-loaded balls rolling. Hayden surprisingly has his moments though. One of my favourites is when Padme is droning on about this other bloke she liked when she was younger and Anakin says "alright I get the picture". In fact, I don't mind this scene so much because they actually feel natural in their dialogue exchange, as if that real meadow they were sitting in inspired them to feel more at ease. It really just feels like a scene with two people talking, like real people! But why the hell am I praising a movie for getting a core fundamental of direction right? The rest of their scenes together are beyond repair.

 

Then there's other shit that nags me.

 

A big question I have relates to Anakin's massacre of the Sand People. As soon as it happens, it cuts to Yoda telling Mace Windu that he senses Skywalker is in pain - did they think to inquire about that later on when they had a moment with him? Yoda was obviously disturbed by it enough that he should have felt the need to at least ask Anakin about it. And if he did, I wonder what Anakin's answer would have been? "Uh, had a bad meal on Tatooi-- I mean Naboo while I was guarding Senator Amidala and had the runs... we watched this terrible B-movie about clones attacking".

 

One thing I really hate is Lucas' lip service to fan factions who love Boba Fett for whatever reason. I never understood this character's appeal. They create this elaborate clone army scheme just to give Obi-Wan something to do, where he finds that it was ordered by a dead Jedi Master of no major significance. Sounds like another set up for another EU novel you don't want to buy.

 

What else is there to say? Well it has a fair few familiar Aussie faces and fake American accents they can't do. Much of the supporting cast in this is really something only a resident of Oceana would recognise. And Australia has an ethnic diversity that's very different to the US and UK, so the people we see in this look and sound different to anything else we've been exposed to in SW. Consequently they feel out of place, but strangely amusing at the same time.

 

And that Battle of Geonosis looked as fake as the Gungan battle in TPM. Which leads me to another big question - the effects in the prequels are woefully unconvincing, but will TFA suffer a similar fate about a decade down the track? Will we be laughing at outselves for thinking it looked real in 2015? I just don't feel like an effective judge of any of this right now. Whatever possessed Lucas to CGI every single fucking clone trooper is beyond me, but I was relieved that they're real and tangible in TFA.

 

ROTS next, then I'll probably revisit these movies again in another five years. Just think, by then we'll have Episode IX!

[Jay 37,359]

5 minutes ago, Drax said:

They create this elaborate clone army scheme just to give Obi-Wan something to do, where he finds that it was ordered by a dead Jedi Master of no major significance. Sounds like another set up for another EU novel they want you to buy.

 

I kinda like that in this movie, Obi-Wan takes off on a solo adventure with a mystery to solve.  It was a nice element not already done in a SW film.  But ultimately, what he finally discovers isn't explained very well, the whole Sifo-Dyas thing.  Oh well.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Aaah Dooku, a character that showed promise, but was killed off in the first part of ROTS and replaced by a wheezing robot who's supposed to be the best swordsman in the galaxy, but has no presence at all.

 

Saw what you want about TPM, but Darth Maul oozed dread! 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

5 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Aaah Dooku, a character that showed promise, but was killed off in the first part of ROTS and replaced by a wheezing robot who's supposed to be the best swordsman in the galaxy, but has no presence at all.

 

Saw what you want about TPM, but Darth Maul oozed dread! 

 

I remember the initial casting of Christopher Lee in AOTC, where he was listed on the official SW site as a "charismatic separatist". He was actually one of the better things about the movie.

[Jay 37,359]

All the villains in the prequels are underwritten.  I feel like I know more about Kylo Ren in one film than I do about Maul, Dooku, Grievous, and Palpatine combined.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Everyone is underwritten.

 

I feel I know more about Finn then Obi-Wan in the Prequels.

[Jay 37,359]

Though I generally dislike the fact that Disney is developing a spinoff movie showing the backstory of damn near every OT character, I actually think a film showing us more about Obi-Wan could be really good, for some reason.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I wouldn't mind seeing Ewan McGregor in that role one last time. With a decent script and director.

 

He's earned it!

[Jay 37,359]

Right.  You could set the story between Ep 3 and Ep 4, starring McGregor.  But throughout the film, either have dialogue or straight-up flashbacks that show Obi-Wan's younger days.  Could be good!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Someone suggested a Shane type film about Ben. I could see that.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Revenge of the Sith. Right, well...

 

While the first two were bad movies with decent moments, ROTS is a decent movie with its fair share of shitty moments. Overall, it tells a compelling cautionary tale about how an aged and crippled democracy can slide into tyranny, and the so-called "chosen one's" parallel descent. It really is a grim and depressing picture - that is until Lucas' fetish for abusing screen wipes and dissolves ultimately reminds you that this is nothing but pulpy comic schlock with a darker twist.

 

Of course there are those moments, like "Darth No" at the Emperor Palpatine Surgical Reconstruction Centre, or Padme's baffling "died of a broken heart" bullshit. What happened to that headstrong Queen of Naboo who fought tooth and nail to save her world? One reason why I rank TPM slightly higher than this. I was simply more disappointed in ROTS than I was in TPM. This had no room for fuck up, but Lucas somehow managed to make this remarkably less than perfect.

 

Yet again, it is far more gripping than its predecessors. Despite its amateurish direction and staging, it held my undivided attention from start to finish, which is probably more credit to the conceptual story Lucas was trying to tell rather than his sloppy execution.

 

And it's mainly sloppy due to the fact that although it contains the dramatic guts of the prequel trilogy, everything important was crammed into it, especially the last 15 minutes, rather than spaced throughout the other two films. Rather TPM and AOTC meandered with inconsequential bullshit like taxation of trade routes, Gungans, bounty hunters, pod races and whatever else I've already forgotten.

 

Special cheers to Ian McDiarmid, who chews every scene he's in and makes ROTS almost worthwhile. My favourite scene with him is the tense moment when he reveals his true identity to Anakin. His proposition is remarkably tempting. It's scenes like this where he plays it cool where he's essentially owns the picture. Another bone chilling moment is at the end where he kneels beside Vader's mortally wounded body and touches his forehead - was this an unusual act of love from the hate-filled Sith Lord or something else? Williams plays this moment with some of the most sinister sounding underscore from the whole saga.

 

Then there's other bizarre moments where he's running around Grievous' ship with Anakin and Obi-Wan, almost having a little adventure with the good guys.

 

How about R2-D2? Still loyal to Anakin even when he's Darth Vader and after he's murdered kids. Let that sink in for a moment. R2, one of the heroic droids of the OT, was working with Darth Vader for a short while in ROTS. The little bugger ought to have been smashed for spare parts!

 

One day I hope we'll see an Episode IV. It'd be great to see what Lucas will do next with his saga, which he seems to have abandonded for the last decade. Maybe the next one could be about Luke and Leia all grown up and they're trained by Obi-Wan and Yoda to fight the Emperor and potentially save their father. But I guess if a movie isn't made, there's always potential for continuation in novels.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

In some ways ROTS is the best of the Prequels because it's the least boring, story wise.

But in many other ways it's the worst. Because so much of these pivotal scenes we have been waiting for are done very poorly.

The scene between Mace, Palpatine and Anakin is really awful in its' staging and direction, ruining what was quite an interesting build up to it.

The scene where Obi-Wan finds out what his Padawan has done is completely flat and emotionless

The Vader scene...yuck.

 

Really the only part of the film that really does captivate are the earliest scenes between Palpatine and Anakin. The movie actually does work here.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I've noticed a pattern in Lucas' writing and direction where he excels at scenes without any dialogue. That one bit where Anakin is in the Jedi Council chamber and Padme is in her quarters and they both look out from their windows, almost sensing each other. It's a moment of deep significance in the film because Anakin makes a grave decision that impacts the rest of his life.

 

And it was completely unspoken but you understood its meaning. This trilogy needed more of that.

 

I felt the same way about the finale to ROTS, no talking, just stunning visuals and lush music. Maybe he should have made silent movies instead.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah that scenecwas actually quite good, and a rare one where Lucas didn't rely on exposition to tell us what was happening.

 

It's completely undone by the clumsiness of the rest of the "seduction" though.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Palpatine is really cool when his voice goes all bassy and shit during that scene.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He's good when in the scenes before they destroy his face.

 

After that he seriously overdoes it.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

1 hour ago, Drax said:

 

Special cheers to Ian McDiarmid, who chews every scene he's in and makes ROTS almost worthwhile. My favourite scene with him is the tense moment when he reveals his true identity to Anakin. His proposition is remarkably tempting. It's scenes like this where he plays it cool where he's essentially owns the picture. Another bone chilling moment is at the end where he kneels beside Vader's mortally wounded body and touches his forehead - was this an unusual act of love from the hate-filled Sith Lord or something else? 

 

Nah, he's just keeping Anakin alive so he can take him to the Emperor Palpatine Surgical Reconstruction Center. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Is there an in-universe explanation as to why people were so stiff and wooden in the prequel era but they loosened up in the OT/ST eras?

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

3 hours ago, Drax said:

Is there an in-universe explanation as to why people were so stiff and wooden in the prequel era but they loosened up in the OT/ST eras?

Palpatine was controlling their every action like puppets.  

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Maybe the dark side called to Anakin, like the Force/lightsaber calls to Stantz and gives her instantaneous powers in TFA? We excuse that, but apparently Anakin needs more reasons to turn to the dark side.

 

All I know is, Hayden was awesome at emoting in ROTS despite clunky dialogue. He really looked the part. For me, it all kinda comes together enough when you see the anguish in Anakin's face, McDiarmid becomes a deliciously evil devilish monster and Williams goes to town with the score.

 

Also, Natalie hasn't been good in anything I've seen her in with the exception of The Professional. I have no clue why she was cast in anything.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

6 hours ago, E.T. and Elliot said:

Maybe the dark side called to Anakin, like the Force/lightsaber calls to Stantz and gives her instantaneous powers in TFA?

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What is that picture?

[Wojo 2,453]

It doesn't show for me either. 

[Jay 37,359]

Ray Stanz from Ghostbusters.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I see.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

...

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

gtfo

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Agreed.  

[Trent B 337]

Whoever whipped that up has their head too far up their ass...

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I'd rather watch AOTC than TFA. At least it has a cool monster scene!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Batshit crazy you are!

[Wojo 2,453]

The coolest thing about AOTC is that it has an end.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes!

[Wojo 2,453]

And yet, the first time I heard the finale cue descend into the Imperial March, I wept crazy nerd tears of joy. That's the coolest moment of the movie, even though it killed the idea of simpler themes evolving into Vader's Theme. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes!

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I actually love the final scene of AOTC.  The rest is shit though. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Struggling to think of anything I really liked apart from the ending.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Struggling to think of anything I really liked apart from the ending.

The subplot with Anakin's mother was pretty interesting, though it's handled entirely wrong.  Padme brushes Anakin's massacre aside with some lame "you're only human" excuse.  

[Sir Hilary Bray 235]

The reveal of the clone troopers on Kamino, specifically the music that accompanies it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nope and nope

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Padme's revealing costumes.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

*shrugs*

[bollemanneke 3,348]

Priceless review, Stefancos, and I'm not being sarcastic. Genuinely enjoyed reading it. Very interesting how everything didn't seem that horrible for me because I was missing the visual aspect, though Hayden's dialogue is indeed cringeworthy. TFA is ten times better in every way (excluding the scores).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You are visually impaired?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

8 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Priceless review, Stefancos, and I'm not being sarcastic. Genuinely enjoyed reading it. Very interesting how everything didn't seem that horrible for me because I was missing the visual aspect, though Hayden's dialogue is indeed cringeworthy. TFA is ten times better in every way (excluding the scores).

The score is 100 times better.

[bollemanneke 3,348]

I am. That is, I'm completely blind which is why it was very interesting you read your scathing attack on the prequels' visual aspect. Apart from Hayden's disastrous performance (I still don't get why they picked him of all people) I didn't mind the prequels too much. I preferred them to the OT before watching TFA. Now I realise that trade disputes would make most OT lovers shiver and, looking back, the plot of the first film does indeed sound ridiculous. Oh well, Duel of the Fates and Across The Stars are worth it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well, i have no frame of reference for the way you experience films, but i can certainly image missing the visual aspect would, in the case of the prequels, actually be a slight bonus.

 

You'd still have to listen to the dialogue though. But since so much of it is descriptive exposition that might actually be advantageous for a blind person.

[bollemanneke 3,348]

I use something called Audio Description. They do it in the US or UK but mainly in England's green and pleasant land. If you have the TFA Blu Ray, there should be an AD track on there. It basically means that a narrator tells you what's happening on screen (for instance: She gives him an indignant look and storms off.) They didn't say how bad the prequels, look though.