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What do you think of Williams's non film work?


karelm

What do you think of Williams's non film work?  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. For those of you who like concert music, what do you think of Williams's concert music?

    • Never heard it
      1
    • His ceremonial pieces are good but longer works are not my thing
      1
    • I like/love it and he should be more welcome in the concert hall
      30
    • He shouldn't quit his day job as an expert film composer
      4
    • It is pastiche, trivial and lightweight and has no home in the sacred concert halls (I hate it)
      0
  2. 2. Do you like concert music?

    • No
      0
    • Somewhat
      3
    • Yes
      33


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His ceremonial works are collectively superb.

 

His straight concert-hall pieces are overall good, but some are night and day better than others.  He has a unique voice that contains elements of romanticism, impressionism, and just a bit of atonalism.  Overall, they feel fresh and inventive.  My favorite concerto is the Horn, followed by Five Sacred Trees.  In terms of non-concertos, Soundings and for Seiji top my list.

 

Lastly, although it is a hybrid piece, I consider his Memoirs suite for cello and orchestra as good as any concerto for the cello (yes, I realize I might be a bit over the top on this). 

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Not everything Williams has done in the concert arena is equally good (in fact, there are pieces -- both short and long -- that I find grating and irritating), but a great deal is. Including those that have never had a proper release. Depends.

 

My favourite among the longer concert works is the gorgeous bassoon concerto ("Five Sacred Trees"), while my favourite of the shorter pieces is probably the supercatchy "Celebrate Discovery" followed by the "Olympic Spirit" (which is actually a TV theme, strictly speaking, and not a work for the concert scene).

 

My least favourite of the longer concert works is a toss-up between "Conversations", the brand new "Scherzo for Piano" thing for Lang Lang and the "Duo Concertante for Violin and Viola" -- all ice cold, intellectual works with little in terms of engrossing warmth. My least favourite of the shorter pieces is either the crummy-sounding "Fanfare for Michael Dukakis" or the über-patriotic, cheesy "America - The Dream Goes On".

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I see no musical or aesthetic reason why the hybrid pieces should be less deserving.  In terms of the Memoirs suite, the main melodic lines are rewarding on their own, but the orchestrations are engaging and fresh, though firmly embedded in Williams' style.  Moreover, the interplay of the soloists is just beautiful, particularly the cello and violin in the Chairman's Waltz, but the woodwinds get their chances as well.  Lastly, it is clearly a technically challenging piece for the cello, particularly the fourth movement. 

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I agree with Tom. No reason why the concert pieces adapted from film scores (MEMOIRS OF A GEISHA, CATCH ME IF YOU CAN, THE UNFINISHED JOURNEY, THE REIVERS etc.) shouldn't be just as deserving. It's just that I don't usually count them myself when listing Williams' concert works. But that's just a purist thing I have; that I demand the piece be written from scratch, not an adaptation.

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That's my personal thinking but I think that to make a balance between his movie works, for which he was so many times accused to be too "popular", he tends to be too "intellectual" in his concert works. Trying to challenge the soloists and his instrument seems sometimes more important than to entertain the audience.

 

I must admit that modern music never was my cup of tea. It's the old fashionned romantic side of Williams that I like the most. And this side is not represented in the majority of his concert works.

 

So except for his ceremonial works that I love very much, I would be unable to enumerate which of his other concert works I love the most. I own the majority of them, listen to them, but I don't have visceral crush for any.

 

 

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The first concert work of his I properly listened to was the Bassoon Concerto, which I fell in love with immediately. I have not heard all of his concert music but of the stuff I HAVE listened to, I love most of it (which perfectly describes my attitude towards his film music as well).

 

My favourites are Treesong, Happy Birthday Variations, and the recent Scherzo for Piano and Orchestra. I also love the Violin Concerto, Harp Concerto, Elegy for Cello and Orchestra, Bassoon Concerto, Tuba Concerto...I'm a big concerto fan!

 

The ceremonial stuff hasn't attracted me so much (apart from HBV) but I'm ambivalent towards it. Sound the Bells! is very nice for example.

 

'America, and the Dream Goes On' is a bit of an oddity...it's kinda catchy but the cheesy patriotism puts me off at the same time.

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I haven't yet really taken a full-fledged plunge into Williams's concert repertoire, but what I have listened to is quite excellent, in my opinion. I've yet to find a composer whose music resonates as sympathetically with me as Williams's. For me, the whole of his oeuvre boasts an incredibly accessible and directly moving, yet at the same time very intimate and refined tone. I'm more of a fan of his more recent work, including his latest (celebratory) fanfares (For The President's Own, Music For Brass, Fanfare For Fenway) and the more lengthy works (the excellent Scherzo For Piano And Orchestra, for example), but virtually everything Williams has written is appealing to me in a lot of ways.

 

My two favorite concert works of his are the Cello Concerto and Soundings (also, Heartwood really deserves an honorable mention!). Both present some sort of amalgam of Williams's classic and more modern sensibilities, and Soundings is just phenomenal in every possible way, in my opinion. What a gorgeous sonic journey that piece takes you on!

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I'm completely stumped about what you guys see in "Scherzo for Piano and Orchestra". I find it to be an absolutely GHASTLY piece, maybe the worst thing Williams has ever written.

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A very interesting sideline career. Which will never have the prominence, despite whatever some people here might think, of his film work.

 

Williams is the only film composer who's work has found some measure of acceptance in concert circles though. While there are others who will occasionally have a commission or have some of their non-film work performed. No other Hollywood composer has a catalog of concert or ceremonial work as impressive as him.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

A very interesting sideline career. Which will never have the prominence, despite whatever some people here might think, of his film work.

 

Williams is the only film composer who's work has found some measure of acceptance in concert circles though. While there are others who will occasionally have a commission or have some of their non-film work performed. No other Hollywood composer has a catalog of concert or ceremonial work as impressive as him.

 

 

 

I wouldn't dismiss Korngold...his Violin Concerto is very popular throughout concert halls.  Or perhaps you mean with regards to living composers?  Yes, concert halls are an exclusive domain and there is a lot of resentment if someone comes being absolutely adored through what they consider pastiche.  It is a complicated topic because it deals with defining the boundaries of art and not in the places where there is agreement but rather the edge cases.  Some of the most beloved pieces were purely for fun (Brahms's Academic Festival Overture featuring drinking songs, etc) and not all great music needs to explore the depths of human nature, society, philosophy, etc.

 

Do you think JW is treated unfairly by the concert elites because he is so adored in film?  Basically, if someone anonymously submitted his Flute Concerto (as an example of a very non-Williamsy piece) to a reviewer and said it was some other composer, would it be received more favorably? 

 

 

1 hour ago, Thor said:

I'm completely stumped about what you guys see in "Scherzo for Piano and Orchestra". I find it to be an absolutely GHASTLY piece, maybe the worst thing Williams has ever written.

 

To me, it is very Prokofiev-ian which is a great compliment as I adore Prokofiev's piano works.  I always felt JW did too.  Don't you hear some of Scherzo in this:

By the way, the Williams Scherzo for Piano on youtube isn't the full thing - does anyone (Maurizio) have a link to the full thing or know how long it is and when/if it will be released?

 

Anyway, to each his own...what do you think of his work on the Gloria Cheng piano CD?

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I can't say that I've heard much of his concert work - in fact, if it's not on the Yo-Yo Ma CD, I haven't heard it. The works included in that CD were of little interest to me for a long time. I gotta admit, though, Heartwood came up in shuffle at work the other day and I found it beautiful, entrancing even.

 

I did really like the arrangement he wrote for Obama a few years back. And his first Olympic theme is absolutely incredible.

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15 hours ago, karelm said:

Anyway, to each his own...what do you think of his work on the Gloria Cheng piano CD?

 

I don't like it, as I mentioned above.

 

I'm fairly welcoming of Williams in experimental mode (his highly dissonant flute concerto is something to get positively lost in, for example), but I've not been able to enjoy his recent two works for piano. Which is ironic, since piano is his main instrument and I had tremendous expectations for these -- his first piano concert work since the piano sonata in 1951 (which none of us have heard).

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25 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

The piano sonata is likely a student piece and, from what I remember reading somewhere, he never finished it.


Yes, it's a student piece. In fact, it's very likely his exam piece -- delivered to the comission of the composition course at UCLA that he took during the fall of 50 and the spring of 51 (with Tedelnuovo-Tedesco). It was most likely performed only that once, for a closed circle, and then never performed again after that. Or even finished.

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22 hours ago, Thor said:

My least favourite of the longer concert works is a toss-up between "Conversations", the brand new "Scherzo for Piano" thing for Lang Lang and the "Duo Concertante for Violin and Viola" -- all ice cold, intellectual works with little in terms of engrossing warmth.

 

I really fail to see eye to eye with you on this... I actually find "Conversations" a warm and tender piece. "Scherzo for Piano" is brilliant, and just listened to it yesterday. "Duo Concertante" is stuck in my head from day one!

I do understand that some of his chamber music, and even the orchestral concert works, is less direct to the listener than his film works, but as changeling as it may be, it's full of rewards to be find in there!

 

Anyway, my favorite Williams' work his the Cello Concerto, concert work or otherwise. And I agree with Maurizio, that some of his concert suites, like Escapades and the Geisha suite for Cello, even having it's origin on film work, end up being full fledged works for concert hall.

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I have always been fond of the "concert hall" facet of Williams' musical personality. It is rather one part of his voice, another register, and not a separate entity. You can really hear the same composer in there, perhaps a bit more abstract, indirect and introverted but it is all Williams. And one can't say all of his concert hall music is inaccessible (excluding celebratory fanfares etc. here), far from it and the composer is first to admit it but you just can't go into Williams' concert repertoire with the same set of expectations than when you listen to his film music where somewhat different strictures, language and laws are in place.

 

The composer has really not kept these two facets of himself, absolute music and film scores, entirely apart but you can hear how conscious he is of his target audience in each setting. He has said many times how he would approach writing a piece for a major celebratory event of 10 000 people very differently than one for a concert hall. Not only is there often quite a programmatic, narrative function to many of the big flashy fanfares and brief musical tableaux Williams is called upon for major events but also the language has to be direct, usually big enough to be heard and to the point. In the concert hall setting Williams' works e.g the various concerti are often dependent on much less of these narrative stimuli or programmes (there are exceptions as Williams seems prone to be the musical storyteller outside the film screen as well) but rather that is time to work out personal introverted musical questions, challenges and roam in places the film scores might not allow him to go. This is why I see the concert works much more of a personal arena for the composer, where he can figure things out and explore ideas with relative freedom from strictures set by ceremonial pieces and cinema as they usually demand a very specific vocabulary. It doesn't make the concert works any better or worse than the film output as many people would be quick to note with indignation as if giving compliment to Williams' concert output would somehow belittle his legendary film career. It is just an outlet of different kind of musical creative energies and I happen to love the difference in these different tenors in his musical voice.

 

As much as the challenge of writing absolute music seems to inspire him, the musicians themselves seem to be the main inspiration and often give him the needed impetus to create the concerto specifically for them and their voice and talents. Williams amusingly called these individual musicians his "victims" in Jim Svedja's 2013 KUSC interview as he at other times might surprise them with complete concerto written specifically for them (Yo-Yo Ma, Dale Clevenger). He seems to have his favourites among the instruments, like bassoon, horn and cello and Williams himself mentioned in the Jim Svedja interview how someone like Yo-Yo Ma was a dream to write to because he could literally write anything (difficult, challenging, techically demanding) and Ma would make it sound good every time. But on the other hand some concerti seem to have demanded quite a bit of coaxing from the musician in question for the composer to take up courage and write them a piece. One relatively recent example is On Willows and Birches where Ann Hobson Pilot had to persuade Williams to write the concerto over a long period of time as he was initially very hesitant because of the sheer technical difficulties he thought harp suggested with its pedal mechanics etc. So when he is composing he is always learning as well, about the orchestra and the solo instrument he is writing for and what I especially love about his concerti is that he always brings out the special qualities of the instrument in question, which surprisingly isn't always a given even in such concerti. In the best cases we have the chance to hear also the actual soloist the piece was originally written for on recordings and performances, which I find adds a further dimension to the pieces and they play to their strengths as musicians. What could be better.

 

As for favourites I prefer the lyrical concerti for Cello, Violin, Bassoon and Oboe the best but the pieces for unaccompanied instruments such as piano (Conversations) and guitar (Rounds) have recently attracted me in their pared down aesthetic where the essentials of the instrument's voice are explored. Undoubtedly showpiece like material like Soundings and Tributes (For Seiji!) that combine the slightly more challenging abstract aspects of Williams' writing and the sparkling celebratory feel are among my most listened to concert hall output from the Maestro. The impressive number of those bright, energized and glowing orchestral works for special events, inaugurals and commemorations like Olympics or Statue of Liberty celebration are no lesser in their appeal though and I have always admired how succintly and how masterfully the composer can inject such emotion and power into them and how he knows how to say musically what the event is about so accurately. So I sort of love the whole repertoire of JWs non-film output. :)

 

OK I stop rambling now. Just thought to put a few of my thoughts to words on this concert/non-film work.

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After reflection, I must admit that among his concertos, the one for bassoon is maybe the one that I found the more pleasant... or the least unpleasant!

 

p_sk62729.jpg

 

The Five Sacred Trees / Leclair, Williams, London SO (1997, Sony Classical, SK 62729)

 

John Williams: The Five Sacred Trees.

p_slatkin_bassoon.jpg

 

John Williams: Bassoon Concerto / Williams, Slatkin, Detroit Symphony (2015, Naxos, iTunes release)

 

John Williams: Bassoon Concerto (The Five Sacred Trees).

http://www.goplanete.com/johnwilliams/music/composer/concert.htm

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1 hour ago, Miguel Andrade said:

 

I really fail to see eye to eye with you on this... I actually find "Conversations" a warm and tender piece. "Scherzo for Piano" is brilliant, and just listened to it yesterday. "Duo Concertante" is stuck in my head from day one!

I do understand that some of his chamber music, and even the orchestral concert works, is less direct to the listener than his film works, but as changeling as it may be, it's full of rewards to be find in there!

 

Anyway, my favorite Williams' work his the Cello Concerto, concert work or otherwise. And I agree with Maurizio, that some of his concert suites, like Escapades and the Geisha suite for Cello, even having it's origin on film work, end up being full fledged works for concert hall.

 

Yeah, we don't see eye to eye on the first three pieces. I've tried many times, but can't get into them at all.

 

But we DO see eye to eye on the cello concerto. Great piece, although not quite up there with the bassoon concerto, the violin concerto etc. for my part. I do enjoy most of Williams' concert works -- both the accesible ones and those that are more abstract -- but it's not like I like everything! They are as much subject to our evaluations as anything he did for films or otherwise. I'm skeptical to anyone who likes ALL of Williams' concert works.

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15 hours ago, Thor said:

 

I'm skeptical to anyone who likes ALL of Williams' concert works.

 

As in everything, there are works I happen to revisit with more pleasure than others, but I think there is something interesting in every of his concert works. Williams isn't able to write bad music even if he'd want to do so :) 

On ‎26‎/‎01‎/‎2016 at 10:27 PM, karelm said:

 

I wouldn't dismiss Korngold...his Violin Concerto is very popular throughout concert halls.  Or perhaps you mean with regards to living composers?  Yes, concert halls are an exclusive domain and there is a lot of resentment if someone comes being absolutely adored through what they consider pastiche.  It is a complicated topic because it deals with defining the boundaries of art and not in the places where there is agreement but rather the edge cases.  Some of the most beloved pieces were purely for fun (Brahms's Academic Festival Overture featuring drinking songs, etc) and not all great music needs to explore the depths of human nature, society, philosophy, etc.

 

I agree with your point. As for film composers treated (nowadays) with dignity and respect in the concert arena, I think we can add Rozsa and Herrmann to the list. Rozsa wrote a great deal of beautiful concert music and it gets performed more and more in current programs around the world. Herrmann also gets performed a lot, albeit orchestras seem to focus pretty exclusively on his film repertoire (and especially just Hitchcock films), while he wrote a good deal of wonderful concert pieces (check out his Symphony No.1, if you can). Also, Nino Rota's concert music is getting more exposure here in Italy in the latest years--he wrote as much concert music as he did film scores, and all his stuff is just great.

 

I think we can say Korngold, Williams, Herrmann and Rozsa are the ones who probably gets more performed in concert programs and the ones who crossed the two fields with the greatest success and recognition.

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3 hours ago, TownerFan said:

 

As in everything, there are works I happen to revisit with more pleasure than others, but I think there is something interesting in every of his concert works. Williams isn't able to write bad music even if he'd want to do so :) 

 

 

That! Couldn't agree more. And while there are pieces I listen too more often than others, I really enjoy all of his concert output... actually the ones I enjoy the least may be some of his shorter celebratory fanfares.

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6 hours ago, TownerFan said:

I agree with your point. As for film composers treated (nowadays) with dignity and respect in the concert arena, I think we can add Rozsa and Herrmann to the list. Rozsa wrote a great deal of beautiful concert music and it gets performed more and more in current programs around the world. Herrmann also gets performed a lot, albeit orchestras seem to focus pretty exclusively on his film repertoire (and especially just Hitchcock films), while he wrote a good deal of wonderful concert pieces (check out his Symphony No.1, if you can). Also, Nino Rota's concert music is getting more exposure here in Italy in the latest years--he wrote as much concert music as he did film scores, and all his stuff is just great.

 

I think we can say Korngold, Williams, Herrmann and Rozsa are the ones who probably gets more performed in concert programs and the ones who crossed the two fields with the greatest success and recognition.

 

I don't think I have heard any of Nino Rota's concert music so if you have suggestions let me know (or post in the Classical recommendation thread).  I think Rozsa is a very high quality composer and like JW, his concert music is not what you would expect from his film scores yet shows the same quality.  There was a recent Chandos CD of his concert music that is excellent and highly recommended.  I am very familiar with Herrmann and adore his works and exotic sensibilities but like you say, he seems more regulated to Halloween themed concerts (Pyscho) or film themed rather than regular concert season.  The last time I saw Star Wars performed it was in a concert along with Beethoven.  The theme of the concert was heroes so included Beethoven Eroica, Star Wars, Superman.  Yes, I love LA. 

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I prefer some of his concert pieces (the substantial ones) to most of his film scores.  I'm not terribly keen on the celebratory pieces, they're just there, and ok.  I reckon Heartwood may be his finest work overall (cue incredulous gasps).

 

On 1/26/2016 at 3:57 PM, Stefancos said:

A very interesting sideline career. Which will never have the prominence, despite whatever some people here might think, of his film work.

 

Stef, I assume this refers at least in part to me.  I don't think it'll ever have the prominence of his film career.  I just personally value a lot of it more than his film work.  Anyway, I, and others, only seem to really talk up his concert music when you chime in marginalizing it.  It can be more than just the trifle you seem to classify it as, despite not being as known as his scoring.

 

4 hours ago, karelm said:

 

I don't think I have heard any of Nino Rota's concert music

 

I think I've come across some on youtube, an oboe concerto maybe?

 

Actually a cursory search turns up quite a bit!  Here's something for the trombonist in you.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Stef, I assume this refers at least in part to me.  I don't think it'll ever have the prominence of his film career.  I just personally value a lot of it more than his film work.  Anyway, I, and others, only seem to really talk up his concert music when you chime in marginalizing it.  It can be more than just the trifle you seem to classify it as, despite not being as known as his scoring.

 

I was not referring to you at all.

 

And it's Stefan, not Stef. Thank you.

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On 26.1.2016 at 9:57 PM, Stefancos said:

A very interesting sideline career. Which will never have the prominence, despite whatever some people here might think, of his film work.

 

Williams is the only film composer who's work has found some measure of acceptance in concert circles though. While there are others who will occasionally have a commission or have some of their non-film work performed. No other Hollywood composer has a catalog of concert or ceremonial work as impressive as him.

 

 

 

 

Ahem? Rózsa was a much more accomplished composer of 'classical' music, in quantity and also in how often it was/is performed/recorded.

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I wouldn't say I've loved each concert piece, certainly not equally, but they're all worth listening to at least once if you're a fan of orchestral concert music.  I've gotten something out of all of his works even if it's only resulted in a passing interest overall (Treesong).

 

However, I have adored his Violin, Cello, Bassoon and Viola (based on the reduction) concerti, as well as found new love of his Trumpet concerto based on newer recordings.  Some are more interesting than others, I've grown attached to specific works, but I haven't come across anything that I would label as "bad".

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6 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Actually a cursory search turns up quite a bit!  Here's something for the trombonist in you.

 

 

 

 

I love it and will investigate more of his concert music.  BUT, do you think if he wasn't a famous film composer it would have a place in the concert hall?  Basically, lets assume all we knew of Rota was the concert music, how well would he be regarded?

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11 hours ago, karelm said:

 

I love it and will investigate more of his concert music.  BUT, do you think if he wasn't a famous film composer it would have a place in the concert hall?  Basically, lets assume all we knew of Rota was the concert music, how well would he be regarded?

 

Like Korngold, Rozsa and others, Nino Rota suffered the stygma of being a film composer, at least here in Italy. People dismissed him simply as a composer of "popular music for films" mainly because of the vernacular he used in the scores for Fellini's films and other works he did also for television. But he was a true full-fledged composer, able to write in virtually any style or language. He was a true chameleon (in this sense he reminds me of JW) and he wrote probably more concert music than film scores in the end. But people and musicians didn't value him seriously until well after he passed away. He also served as director of a prestigious music conservatory in southern Italy and he had the esteemed conductor Riccardo Muti among his pupils. The problem with his concert music not being performed a lot is also because he didn't archive properly a lot of his materials. He was a very humble, almost shy man who didn't like to drew attention to himself or his work. Luckily enough, a team of musicologists and historians helped Rota's family in researching and archiving (but also discovering) a lot of scores after his death. Also, a new generation of conductors and musicians truly rediscovered his repertoire and now it's being performed a lot more.

 

Among his concert works, I suggest you to look into his two Piano Concertos and the two Cello Concertos. Beautiful stuff. But there's a lot more. I'll post other suggestions when I'll have a bit of spare time. In the meantime check these out:

 

Concerto for Piano and Orchestra in C Major:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H36IgwvkYbs

 

Concerto for Piano "Piccolo Mondo Antico" (aka "Small Ancient World")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20kFEriqtJM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYvsCV-M_NQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vfAERLVdSQ

 

Concerto for Harp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCZn0lvwhf4

 

Concerto for Strings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rz92jwwFZU

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3 hours ago, TownerFan said:

 

Like Korngold, Rozsa and others, Nino Rota suffered the stygma of being a film composer, at least here in Italy. People dismissed him simply as a composer of "popular music for films" mainly because of the vernacular he used in the scores for Fellini's films and other works he did also for television. But he was a true full-fledged composer, able to write in virtually any style or language. He was a true chameleon (in this sense he reminds me of JW) and he wrote probably more concert music than film scores in the end. But people and musicians didn't value him seriously until well after he passed away. He also served as director of a prestigious music conservatory in southern Italy and he had the esteemed conductor Riccardo Muti among his pupils. The problem with his concert music not being performed a lot is also because he didn't archive properly a lot of his materials. He was a very humble, almost shy man who didn't like to drew attention to himself or his work. Luckily enough, a team of musicologists and historians helped Rota's family in researching and archiving (but also discovering) a lot of scores after his death. Also, a new generation of conductors and musicians truly rediscovered his repertoire and now it's being performed a lot more.

 

Among his concert works, I suggest you to look into his two Piano Concertos and the two Cello Concertos. Beautiful stuff. But there's a lot more. I'll post other suggestions when I'll have a bit of spare time. In the meantime check these out:

 

Concerto for Piano and Orchestra in C Major:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H36IgwvkYbs

 

Concerto for Piano "Piccolo Mondo Antico" (aka "Small Ancient World")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20kFEriqtJM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYvsCV-M_NQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vfAERLVdSQ

 

Concerto for Harp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCZn0lvwhf4

 

Concerto for Strings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rz92jwwFZU

 

Thanks, very enjoyable music and quite different from his film music but that shows how much versatility he has.  One interesting thing is how different these various composers are in their own sound from the film sound.  If I heard this on the radio, I never would have guessed it was Rota, Rozsa, or Williams.  I would know it was Herrmann and I think he took pride in the fact that he approached any job as equal in effort.

 

After hearing this, I do believe these works could be embraced by concert audiences and not require a "film theme" concert.  They just need champions and it seems Williams has that in Slatkin and maybe a few others.  It seems Muti certainly believed in Rota based on the samples you sent. 

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His concert music is very heterogenic.

I love most of his incidental music such as his marches for networks and the Olympics, which are very thematic, but emotionally more or less one-dimensional. My favorites are Call of the Champions, We're Looking Good!, Scherzo for Today,  Pops on the March, and Olympic Spirit. His concertos are much more intellectual. Over time they have grown much on me. I very much like his Treesong, Clarinet Concerto, Trumpet Concerto, Elegy for Cello and Orchestra, mostly because of the amazing colors and orchestrations. Very inspiring on a deeper level, but still esthetically pleasing, not unlike Szymanowski's works.

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16 minutes ago, karelm said:

What is this piece?

Williams JUST DOWN WEST STREET … on the left

 

One of those showcase concert pieces, which lets everyone sitting in the orchestra have their moment of fun!

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1 hour ago, karelm said:

What is this piece?

Williams JUST DOWN WEST STREET … on the left

 

It will be performed in April by Colburn Orchestra.  Has anyone here heard it?

 

Here you go:

 

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25383-new-williams-work-just-down-west-street%E2%80%A6-on-the-left-tanglewood-music-center-75th-anniversary-commission/

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On 1/28/2016 at 5:12 PM, publicist said:

 

 

Ahem? Rózsa was a much more accomplished composer of 'classical' music, in quantity and also in how often it was/is performed/recorded.

 

As is Korngold, who was more of a concert hall composer before circumstances forced his hand to film.

 

But we're talking about a whole other generation here. One that began in the concert hall and ended up in Hollywood by chance and circumstance. One can argue that Williams' beginnings had closer roots to the film studios before he ventured into concert music. And I would say he did that more successfully than many of his contemporaries.

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2 hours ago, KK. said:

 

As is Korngold, who was more of a concert hall composer before circumstances forced his hand to film.

 

But we're talking about a whole other generation here. One that began in the concert hall and ended up in Hollywood by chance and circumstance. One can argue that Williams' beginnings had closer roots to the film studios before he ventured into concert music. And I would say he did that more successfully than many of his contemporaries.

 

Not entirely true if you consider his jazz beginnings in the 1940's and 50's.  True his pop was a session player but he was known first and foremost in jazz circles.  He was first and foremost a musician.  Film was the medium.

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Also, did any contemporaries even try? I only know of Rosenman (who was the most prolific of the silver agers) and Bernstein did bits and pieces of chamber music or a concerto here and there. Some stuff may be forever hidden in closets.

 

Interestingly, apart from Don Davis of the recent crop only Powell rose to the front with an amibitous non-film music work (who would have thought?).

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Elliot Goldenthal is probably the one who did the more substantial amount of work for concert hall, in comparison to most of his contemporaries. Elfman also did a few things, like Serenada Schizophrana and a ballet piece for Twyla Tharp. He's working now on a violin concerto which will premiere this upcoming summer.

 

As for the generation of Wiliams, he's probably the one who did most of works for the concert hall. A lot of others, like Goldsmith and Bernstein, did only a few things. But I guess it's very difficult to work a lot and have a successful career in both arenas.

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1 hour ago, TownerFan said:

Elliot Goldenthal is probably the one who did the more substantial amount of work for concert hall, in comparison to most of his contemporaries. Elfman also did a few things, like Serenada Schizophrana and a ballet piece for Twyla Tharp. He's working now on a violin concerto which will premiere this upcoming summer.

 

As for the generation of Wiliams, he's probably the one who did most of works for the concert hall. A lot of others, like Goldsmith and Bernstein, did only a few things. But I guess it's very difficult to work a lot and have a successful career in both arenas.

 

Yeah, Goldenthal and Williams are really the only two composers currently alive who have a considerable amount of work in both fields; and who enjoy respect in both as well (Goldenthal perhaps more than Williams).

 

But there are several classical composers still alive who have at least dabbled in film music at some point (Corigliano, Previn, Glass, Penderecki etc.), and they outshine pretty much everything by Goldenthal and Williams as far as public knowledge and accolades are concerned.

 

And then you have Jonny Greenwood.

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2 hours ago, Thor said:

 

Yeah, Goldenthal and Williams are really the only two composers currently alive who have a considerable amount of work in both fields; and who enjoy respect in both as well (Goldenthal perhaps more than Williams).

 

I would add another exact contemporary of Williams: Lalo Schifrin.  He has written loads of music for the concert hall over many years, including things like his Cantos Aztecas, Latin Jazz Suite, Gillespiana, Symphonic Impressions of Oman, Jazz Mass, Romerias, concertos for guitar, double bass, flute, double concerto for piano and jazz trumpet, etc., etc.  He has had his non-film music performed by such renowned orchestras as the LSO, LPO and Sydney Symphony Orchestra.

 

His wonderful Jazz Meets the Symphony series is also highly recommended.

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9 hours ago, publicist said:

Also, did any contemporaries even try? I only know of Rosenman (who was the most prolific of the silver agers) and Bernstein did bits and pieces of chamber music or a concerto here and there. Some stuff may be forever hidden in closets.

 

Interestingly, apart from Don Davis of the recent crop only Powell rose to the front with an amibitous non-film music work (who would have thought?).

 

Rosenman also has a symphony but as far as I know it's not been performed.

 

Edit: yes, it looks like Rosenman's symphony premiered in 2004.

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2 hours ago, Omen II said:

 

I would add another exact contemporary of Williams: Lalo Schifrin.  He has written loads of music for the concert hall over many years, including things like his Cantos Aztecas, Latin Jazz Suite, Gillespiana, Symphonic Impressions of Oman, Jazz Mass, Romerias, concertos for guitar, double bass, flute, double concerto for piano and jazz trumpet, etc., etc.  He has had his non-film music performed by such renowned orchestras as the LSO, LPO and Sydney Symphony Orchestra.

 

His wonderful Jazz Meets the Symphony series is also highly recommended.

 

I know, but in the scheme of things -- and in terms of concert hall accolades -- can he really compare to Williams and Goldenthal?

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