Simon Franglen / James Horner's "The Magnificent Seven" (2016)

[crocodile 7,982]

I thought that The 33 was his last score and that he wrote The Magnificent Seven material somewhere before that. They now call every one of his works as "last". This, the horn concerto...

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well The 33 is the last score he completed himself.

[crocodile 7,982]

Yeah, that makes sense.

 

So this is basically not really a James Horner score at all, right? It's a James Horner as reconstructed by his closest associates. It's basically what Back to Gaya was to Michael Kamen but with more new material to work with.

 

Karol

[Jay 37,280]

Just now, crocodile said:

It's basically what Back to Gaya was to Michael Kamen but with more new material to work with.

 

Karol

 

Hasn't that been evident from the beginning?

[crocodile 7,982]

Fuqua sort of made it seem like Horner wrote the whole thing. But according to liner notes he just started working on themes.

 

Karol

[Thor 7,462]

1 hour ago, crocodile said:

Fuqua sort of made it seem like Horner wrote the whole thing. But according to liner notes he just started working on themes.

 

Karol

 

Yeah, there's been some confusion as to the extent or scope of Horner's material. Be that as it may, it definitely sounds and feels like a Horner score all around -- except maybe missing that strong thematic base which I have no doubt he would have developped, had he been allowed to complete it.

[Jay 37,280]

Listening to this now on Spotify (They are repaving my street and I don't know when the mail will arrive).

 

 

It's good!!

[Jay 37,280]

What the?

 

I received the CD in the mail, and it only has 25 tracks.... the Spotify version has a 26th track, a nice new arrangement of Bernstein's theme.  Shouldn't they be putting the bonus tracks on the CDs to encourage people not to stream? Bah!

[publicist 4,643]

7 hours ago, crocodile said:

Fuqua sort of made it seem like Horner wrote the whole thing. But according to liner notes he just started working on themes.

 

It's very obvious where Horner ends and the less talented helpers take over. Just look at the running times of the cues.

[Jay 37,280]

The beginning and ending is more Hornerish.  The middle is more modern-scoring-ish

[publicist 4,643]

Some of it is rather good (like 'Horne Sacrifice', 'Bell Hangers' etc.) and there are some creative instrumental ideas throughout. What it lacks is Horner's long-lined symphonic thinking - a lot of it is just short cues that go nowhere.

[Jay 37,280]

Yup, totally.

[crocodile 7,982]

Yes. We often made fun of Horner and you could just create an algorithm to crank out new scores. Well...this would be the result. I applaud Franglen and Rhodes for their efforts. It works. But a great Horner score it ain't. You always know it could never possibly surprise you. And admirable if somewhat bland effort.

 

Karol

[Jay 37,280]

I wouldn't go so far as to call it bland myself.  It's fine.  Certainly significantly better than the majority of the film scores that will be made this year.  But yes, certainly not anywhere near the top of Horner's output. 

[Will 2,215]

Just finished listening to this. 

 

My God, that gorgeous (if not particularly "unique") Horner "epic" theme is so underused. I know it's in "So Far So Good" and "Bell Hangers" but is that it? Or am I forgetting about other appearances?

 

Anyway, this score definitely has some good moments. My favorite may be :37-1:15 here:

 

 

Is the catchy five-note melody heard at the beginning of that bit from Bernstein's original score or is it new?

 

"Robicheaux Reunion" is also great. Particularly the clapping and how it leads into :24-:45...

 

 

I liked how the Bernstein theme was worked into the score, sometimes more subtly in the percussion, but I do wish at some point before the credits it had exploded in full glory. Many of the statements were fun and well done but ultimately unsatisfying, until the terrific last track traditional arrangement. 

[crocodile 7,982]

6 hours ago, Jay said:

I wouldn't go so far as to call it bland myself.  It's fine.  Certainly significantly better than the majority of the film scores that will be made this year.  But yes, certainly not anywhere near the top of Horner's output. 

Yeah. I used that word only after listening to some of his other recent works. And these weren't groundbreaking either. But yeah, it is certainly enjoyable for what it is. I hope my opinion of it will improve. I was listening to it on the train after a long day.

 

Karol

[publicist 4,643]

You can really boil the album down to 4 or 5 tracks and forget about the rest. I don't have much faith in Fuqua's directorial talents so the movie is probably to blame for the lack of breathing moments.

[crocodile 7,982]

That is exactly what I did. I actually like how Franglen brings back Horner's pan flutes with a vengeance. Some really cool instrumental choices here and there.

 

Karol

[Nic Cage Fugue 19]

I'm not nearly as down on it as many people online are.

 

I think Horner's main theme is strong. And the development of it throughout the score is interesting, all leading to its most heroic statement in the penultimate track. But yes, the soundtrack is way too long. As far as modern action scores go, though, it's a solid effort.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

55 minutes ago, publicist said:

You can really boil the album down to 4 or 5 tracks and forget about the rest. I don't have much faith in Fuqua's directorial talents so the movie is probably to blame for the lack of breathing moments.

 

What would be your choice of tracks?

[publicist 4,643]

A first draft:

 

 

[toothless 963]

"Street slaughter" comes directly from Avatar from 2:10 to the end.

I kind of like this score

[Will 2,215]

17 hours ago, publicist said:

A first draft:

 

 

 

You left out Robicheaux Reunion! 

[publicist 4,643]

I will leave out even more when i'm through. As usual my reasoning is: just because it's new and a film score doesn't make it obligatory to be kept. 'Seven Riders is so bland and anonymous it probably will be shaved off, soon.

[A. A. Ron 1,738]

On 9/16/2016 at 2:41 PM, Jay said:

What the?

 

I received the CD in the mail, and it only has 25 tracks.... the Spotify version has a 26th track, a nice new arrangement of Bernstein's theme.  Shouldn't they be putting the bonus tracks on the CDs to encourage people not to stream?

 

Actually, no. I'd stick any "bonus tracks" wherever customers are most likely to see them, y'know, in order to turn the greatest number of shoppers into buyers. It's like labeling something other than a soundtrack as a "deluxe edition" even if there's nothing special about it. Somehow it moves units.

 

To the execs, CD is the least important format this was released on, unless there's a vinyl or casette in the works. Yes, even in this genre. Just be grateful you can buy that bonus track in lossless -- and high res no less!

[karelm 2,903]

Good article:

http://variety.com/2016/artisans/production/magnificent-seven-composer-james-horner-1201867146/

[Will 2,215]

Scoring Sessions says they'll have a gallery coming soon.

1 hour ago, karelm said:

Good article:

http://variety.com/2016/artisans/production/magnificent-seven-composer-james-horner-1201867146/

 

Whenever I see Burlingame in the byline I know I'm actually about to read a well-researched piece of journalism that actually finds out something interesting.

 

Interesting paragraphs:

 

Quote

So a few weeks after the tragedy, when Horner’s longtime musical collaborator Simon Franglen showed up on the film’s Louisiana set with “a gift from James,” the director was stunned as he found himself listening to 15 minutes of music that the composer had already written for the film, even before shooting started.

 

Quote

After Horner died, Franglen — a Grammy-winning producer who worked for two decades as Horner’s synthesizer programmer, arranger, and score producer — took the composer’s piano demos, done only weeks before, and, along with recordist/mixer/composer Simon Rhodes, developed them into a suite, which he recorded for Fuqua.

 

Quote

“There were several themes, a theme for the town, one for the cowboys, and so on,” Franglen explains. “It was about getting a style going, to open a discussion with Antoine.”

 

I wonder which themes those are...

 

Speaking of Horner's Mag Seven themes, regarding the one in Bell Hangers:

 

Man that transition from the theme to other material is gorgeous. Not sure if it's actually Horner, of course.

 

 

[Will 2,215]

Has anyone else noticed how "small" and simply orchestrated the end credits rendition of Bernstein's theme is? 

 

I love it, but the original version sounds so much bigger and has more "color." 

 

Seems like another sign of how many modern composers (in this case it would be Franglen or someone else on his team) can't write for a big orchestra quite like the old ones (EDIT: or can but don't, I suppose).

[karelm 2,903]

There is an excellent interview with Simon Franglen where he talks about this and many other interesting things.  In short, the compositional style had really deviated from the 1960 style of scoring films and no longer worked in modern scoring and the interview explains why they wanted to use the Bernstein but also struggled with exactly "how" to use it.

 

Edit: here is the video I was mentioning and is well worth watching the entire interview...clearly Franglen is one sharp bloke and a true professional.  It is clear he adored Horner.

http://collider.com/simon-franglen-magnificent-seven-voyage-of-time-interview/

[Will 2,215]

Yeah, nice interview. He says some really on point things (like the change in style in films, and therefore scores, since the 60s that you mentioned, Karelm). 

 

By the way...

 

He says the film is 120 minutes and it has 107 minutes of music. 29 of those minutes are unreleased because the OST is only 78 minutes. 

 

Not sure whether I should go see this. It's getting lukewarm reviews and the music wasn't exactly stunning overall. Yet it's my last chance to see a (sort of) Horner-scored film in its theatrical run, something I've never done. It might be nice to say I got to do that.

 

Plus it sounds like a fun film and the score probably works better in context. It would be nice to find out where some of my favorite score bits fit in the film.

 

Anyone here seen it?

[publicist 4,643]

All things considered it's a disappointment. The stuff that's interesting about is mostly from 'Patriot Games', 'The Missing' and so on and apart from these handful of sequences it's just serviceable underscore. Which, given the circumstances, is better than a lot of recent blockbuster scores - not a great challenge - but hardly a shining farewell flourish for Horner. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's more like a tribute to Horner from his close collaborators then a true farewell from the Maestro himself. 

 

The last filmscore Horner finished and recorded was Southpaw.

[publicist 4,643]

For the same director and also rather non-descript (though i like parts of it). Maybe the Gibson movie would have been a fairer farewell musically, but alas..

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sadly Horner didn't get to choose his final score.

[publicist 4,643]

God chose...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

As an Atheist I disagree!

[publicist 4,643]

Go eat your cereals!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I don't eat cereal.

[crocodile 7,982]

I agree with you guys. And Back to Gaya was hardly top shelf Kamen. But it's lively they care enough to do this. I've listened to it only once though so will explore it further.

 

Karol

[Will 2,215]

17 hours ago, Stefancos said:

It's more like a tribute to Horner from his close collaborators then a true farewell from the Maestro himself. 

 

The last filmscore Horner finished and recorded was Southpaw.

 

Collage is a more satisfying farewell. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

None of it is a satisfying farewell IMO. There can never be a satisfying farewell.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Gives me an idea for a poll!

[Arpy 4,145]

Taxi Driver was a decent farewell for Herrmann, was it not?

[crocodile 7,982]

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes!

[Thor 7,462]

22 hours ago, RPurton said:

Taxi Driver was a decent farewell for Herrmann, was it not?

 

Yeah, but that's a very rare 'happenstance'.

 

THE MAG 7 may not have been a truly great score to go out on (AVATAR was Horner's last truly great score), but it's certainly better than going out with something like LOONEY TUNES, which Goldsmith did!

[crocodile 7,982]

The last score Horner released before his passing was Wolf Totem. And the last album was Pas De Deux. Both very strong works and albums. In fact I can't think of a better balanced listening experience from the composer than the former. And it merged two things Horner is best at - the sprawling ethnic drama and big adventure. For me that was as perfect send off as any. Everything else for me is a postscript. Although I'm looking forward to that Airplanes soundtrack. It's supposed to be coming out...now?

 

Karol

[Muad'Dib 1,800]

4 hours ago, Thor said:

 

Yeah, but that's a very rare 'happenstance'.

 

THE MAG 7 may not have been a truly great score to go out on (AVATAR was Horner's last truly great score), but it's certainly better than going out with something like LOONEY TUNES, which Goldsmith did!

 

 

The bad guys' theme is damn fine, son

 

 

[Jay 37,280]

3 hours ago, crocodile said:

I'm looking forward to that Airplanes soundtrack. It's supposed to be coming out...now?

 

October.

[Will 2,215]

I like this: