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      Donate to JWFan, win a CD!   05/30/17

      Hello!

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Sharky

Hans Zimmer and Tom Holkenborg's Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

193 posts in this topic

I have listened to the album twice and I have mixed feelings about it. First off, the Batman theme is not very good. The repetitive Bam Bam Bam Bam sounds ridiculous, something you'd hear in a trailer for well, Batman v Superman or Transformers. The actual theme that you barely hear through the percussion and the loudness, is pretty cool. I like how it's played on cello in the beginning of the Batman Suite and how the trumpet motif and the soft brass comes in after a while. Then it gets killed by the Bam Bam Bam Bam...

 

The Superman material is the best. It's the most emotional and nice music on the album. I wish the main theme that you hear in the end of MOS would be in this with a new variation but who knows, maybe it's in the movie.

 

The Lex Luthor theme which plays in "The Red Capes Are Coming" is good. I hear some Holmes and Pirates in there but all in all it's really a refreshing theme for a bad guy in this kind of movie. The almost vivaldiesque violin is underused but has a nice effect, especially in track 13. I hope it'll be used more in the movie. 

 

As for the sound design and the noise, it's pretty bland and deafening. Most of the action cues and the atmospheric cues are filled with sound effects and weird noises. It might be the compressing, but it doesn't sound good at all. There are a few good action tracks, like "Their War Here" and "Is She With You" but other than that everything is early audible because of the sound design. You can clearly hear who was responsible for the action and the more emotional things. 

 

All in all, it's not as good as MOS, but I hope it works in the movie. 

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1 minute ago, Mr. Who said:

All in all, it's not as good as MOS,

 

How can you possibly determine that after a few listens and without having seen the film or knowing what was not released?

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Just now, Stefancos said:

 

How can you possibly determine that after a few listens and without having seen the film or knowing what was not released?

I'm judging the album, as that's what I've got for comparison right now. Maybe after having seen the movie next week I'll have changed my mind.

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48 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Whatever suits the film is "worthy" to write - that doesn't, or shouldn't, have anything to do with complexity.  If it works, it works.

 

Are you a fan of the films of Kubrick or Malick?  Are you aware of their use of music as a more or less static framing device rather than a mirror of the dramatic arc of the film, and how they use entire unchanging pieces as large thematic blocks themselves?  Are you also aware of how Zimmer's approach has often echoed this, especially after working with Malick himself and more recently the similarly inclined Nolan? 

 

Perhaps if you approached this music with this in mind, rather than looking for more familiar approaches as in the music that you're more used to and enjoy more, you'd at least find less to dislike, if not necessarily to actively like.

 

Neither Kubrick or Malick really used (or in Malick's case) use "normally" composed film scores. They usually employe(d) pre-existing music to great effect but that's not what we are talking about right.

 

Anyways this seems like an extremely circular argument that seems like will further lead us into a discussion of semantics and specifics terms (like theme development and theme variation which albeit different would lead you to think that what I meant in my post would have been adequately apparent). Such an engagement in most cases is fruitless and just for the sake of it. So let's just end with my own subjective opinion finding music like BvS thoughtless, unimaginative and tiresome and your own subjective opinion find it enjoyable and stimulating.

 

 

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1 minute ago, TheUlyssesian said:

The Superman "theme" from MOS ZERO development. Heard it once, heard it all. Its still stated on solo piano exactly the same way. If that is all how the theme can be stated, speaks to its simple-minded construction.

 

That's really the Clark Kent theme, associated with his wholesome Midwestern upbringing and his essential humanity--explaining the quasi-gospel harmonisation.

 

There's a number themes, motifs, cells and chords from MOS that carried over and developed, usually rotated in a cyclic pattern. The names are my own.

 

Clark Kent - 0:00-1:04 in Day of the Dead. 4:31-5:29 in This is My World, 3:30-4:30 in Men Are Still Gods

Love - 3:34-4:07 in Is She With You?

Krypton Cluster - 1:07-37 in Day of the Dead, 5:28-38 in This is My World, 0:00-22 in Men Are Still Gods, 3:27 to the end in Blood of My Blood, 3:02 to the end in May I Help You, Mr. Wayne?

Kal El - 1:13-37 in Day of the Dead, 0:58-1:17, 0:58-1:17 in Problems Up Here, 2:24-2:48, 3:08-20 and 06:38-58 in Black and Blue, 3:13-25 and 4:05 to the end in Blood of My Blood,

Semitone Waver - 2:04-34 in Tuesday, 2:23-48 and 6:34-7:07 in Black and Blue, 03:39 to the end in Blood of My Blood

Superman in Ascent - 1:37-58 in Day of the Dead, 5:38-6:01 in This is My World, 0:22-42 in Men Are Still Gods,

Superman's Heroics - 6:01 to the end in This is My World, 0:42-1:04 in Men Are Still Gods

Superman in Peril - 1:58 to the end in Day of the Dead

Lara's Lullaby - 2:57-3:15 in Problems Up Here

Metropolis Threnody 0:31-1:58 in This is My World

Zod B Ostinato - 1:28-2:22 in Their War Here, 3:08-20 in Black and Blue

Zod Impeded - 2:04-22 in Their War Here

Zod Passacaglia - 1:43-49 and 3:28 to the end in Their War Here

Zod's Wrath - 1:21-28 and 2:34-42 in Their War Here and 3:26-43 and 4:10-13 in Black and Blue

 

In it's standard form, Superman in Ascent is capped by Superman's Heroics (Ab/Eb > F in block voicing)--which combines with the preceding Krypton Cluster and Kal El to form the "Superman Cycle", heard in significant moments throughout MOS. In Day of the Dead for example, it's replaced by Superman in Peril, its minor moded flip side. Generally, the Kal El and the Krypton Cluster are connected the more "alien" side to Supes, neither threatening nor benign.

 

Zod's Wrath represents a single sonority and its derived harmonies--Cm with an added ninth and/or flat sixth.

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Neither Kubrick or Malick really used (or in Malick's case) use "normally" composed film scores. They usually employe(d) pre-existing music to great effect but that's not what we are talking about right.

 

That is precisely what we're talking about though - the same approach to the use of music.  Whether it's composed for the film or taken from existing sources makes no difference.  It is a legitimate approach with much precedent.

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Hey @Jay, on this second page of the thread, this

 

1NO3TB9.png

 

keeps showing up for me... but I have no message?  And it doesn't come up anywhere else, only on this page.  Any idea what that's about?

 

When I click on it, it tells me I don't have permission to view it or something and I get error code 2C137/2

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3 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Hey @Jay, on this second page of the thread, this

 

1NO3TB9.png

 

keeps showing up for me... but I have no message?  And it doesn't come up anywhere else, only on this page.  Any idea what that's about?

 

When I click on it, it tells me I don't have permission to view it or something and I get error code 2C137/2

Same here.  

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3 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

1NO3TB9.png

That is happening to me as well

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Same.

 

So it begins. JWFan2225 will dismantle this place one thread at a time!

 

I think he sent an earlier PM but I didn't get the chance to open it. Now it seems to have disappeared.

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"Hi! Do you have the Batman v Superman soundtrack? Will trade for iTunes giftcards!"

4 minutes ago, KK. said:

Same.

 

So it begins. JWFan2225 will dismantle this place one thread at a time!

 

I think he sent an earlier PM but I didn't get the chance to open it. Now it seems to have disappeared.

 

The PM notice only appears when I acces this particular thread though. Which isn't how the PM system normally works.

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I haven't yet put my thoughts totally in order, but for now my general feeling is that this is exactly what I expected plus some very welcome surprises.  I wouldn't at this point put it above MOS but that could change with familiarity.

 

Naturally there will be the expected negative overreactions from people you'd think wouldn't bother in the first place.  Puzzling, that.  I wonder if they go to heavy metal concerts and complain that the amps are too big and noisy.

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2 hours ago, Sharky said:

 

That's really the Clark Kent theme, associated with his wholesome Midwestern upbringing and his essential humanity--explaining the quasi-gospel harmonisation.

 

There's a number themes, motifs, cells and chords from MOS that carried over and developed, usually rotated in a cyclic pattern. The names are my own.

 

Clark Kent - 0:00-1:04 in Day of the Dead. 4:31-5:29 in This is My World, 3:30-4:30 in Men Are Still Gods

Love - 3:34-4:07 in Is She With You?

Krypton Cluster - 1:07-37 in Day of the Dead, 5:28-38 in This is My World, 0:00-22 in Men Are Still Gods, 3:27 to the end in Blood of My Blood, 3:02 to the end in May I Help You, Mr. Wayne?

Kal El - 1:13-37 in Day of the Dead, 0:58-1:17, 0:58-1:17 in Problems Up Here, 2:24-2:48, 3:08-20 and 06:38-58 in Black and Blue, 3:13-25 and 4:05 to the end in Blood of My Blood,

Semitone Waver - 2:04-34 in Tuesday, 2:23-48 and 6:34-7:07 in Black and Blue, 03:39 to the end in Blood of My Blood

Superman in Ascent - 1:37-58 in Day of the Dead, 5:38-6:01 in This is My World, 0:22-42 in Men Are Still Gods,

Superman's Heroics - 6:01 to the end in This is My World, 0:42-1:04 in Men Are Still Gods

Superman in Peril - 1:58 to the end in Day of the Dead

Lara's Lullaby - 2:57-3:15 in Problems Up Here

Metropolis Threnody 0:31-1:58 in This is My World

Zod B Ostinato - 1:28-2:22 in Their War Here, 3:08-20 in Black and Blue

Zod Impeded - 2:04-22 in Their War Here

Zod Passacaglia - 1:43-49 and 3:28 to the end in Their War Here

Zod's Wrath - 1:21-28 and 2:34-42 in Their War Here and 3:26-43 and 4:10-13 in Black and Blue

 

In it's standard form, Superman in Ascent is capped by Superman's Heroics (Ab/Eb > F in block voicing)--which combines with the preceding Krypton Cluster and Kal El to form the "Superman Cycle", heard in significant moments throughout MOS. In Day of the Dead for example, it's replaced by Superman in Peril, its minor moded flip side. Generally, the Kal El and the Krypton Cluster are connected the more "alien" side to Supes, neither threatening nor benign.

 

Zod's Wrath represents a single sonority and its derived harmonies--Cm with an added ninth and/or flat sixth.

 

 

 

Great stuff.  What do you think of it all?

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17 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

Great stuff.  What do you think of it all?

 

The new score? I like the refashioning of old material and there are some promising new ideas (the Bruce Wayne piano theme, Luthor's triple-dotted note theme, the eerie 3 note trumpet call, the Goldenthal/Kronos Quartet style string figures), but the action is just senseless Sturm und Drang... Oil Rig x 10. Maybe I'll come around to it.

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Yeah the action doesn't really have any of the catchy elements that MOS had going for it.

 

I am already fond of the Batman theme though.  Holkenborg has a really distinctive voice, much to his credit.

 

And I'll be damned if those obviously Whitacre choral parts aren't really moving.  This Is My World, I mean, finally, this guy is in Hollywood.  And is that soloist Hila Plitmann?  Certainly sounds like her.  Or Grace Davidson?

 

Gotta say though, I wish Whitacre were credited up front along with Holkenborg.  I bet that passage is something a lot of folks will like, and I want them to know who's responsible, damn it!

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Bruce Wayne's piano theme is nice. But Batman's main thematic identity is a real mixed bag. I like elements of it (the trumpet line, for one), but the bulk of it is, as Sharky mentions above, sturm-und-drang, beating you to death... Holkenborg certainly has a distinctive voice, its just not a very interesting one I'm afraid.

 

The MoS material gets some nice development, but I wish there was more of it. Lex Luther's violin idea has potential, but seems to be underrepresented on album. The action material is clearly the weakest part of the score, which is a shame since it makes up the majority of it. Superman's theme has more warmth and life to it here than I remembered it having in MoS, but that could just be because its grown on me over time.

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I have no explanation for the pm bug in this thread. Stupid new software version.

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And this personal message comes up only on page 2 for me.

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Sweet maybe it will go away when we get to page 3.

 

I might have time to investigate when I'm on desktop tomorrow, I've been on mobile all day

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9 hours ago, Drax said:

It's just fuckin' background music in movies. Who cares?

 

While you are being cynical, it's actually true. I don't think it wants to be anything more than music that is meant to enhance the story and the images. Maybe Junkie will one day write a symphony or a concerto for us to purely listen to?

 

So somebody has given JWfan a virus?

 

 

Alex

 

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15 hours ago, Stefancos said:

This is obviously the result of poor leadership and I think that the situations calls for the immediate dismissal of Jason and Incanus as moderators!

 

I say Bloodboal and KK should take over!

Oh Steffie! You and your Mod-envy!

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Probably superfluous to say, but crazy PM thing here too.

Very odd; I didn't think a "page specific PM system" existed in any fora....

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It appears even when you are not signed on. Some kind of glitch.

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Let's see if this brings us to page 3

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1 hour ago, Incanus said:

It appears even when you are not signed on. Some kind of glitch.

 

You call this a GLITCH?

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