Luke And Leia: it took me 23 years to realize it's a brilliant piece..

[Sandor 797]

I've been an active John Williams fan for 23 years now and I've noticed I've been coming back to the same themes and cues over the years, music that I consider my favorite among John's remarkable output. The Throne Room and Finale, E.T. and Me, the finale from Close Encounters, etc. There must be about a hundred pieces of music that I've played over and over again since 1993 and these selections have -and always will be- very dear to me.

 

Somehow, Luke And Leia from Return Of The Jedi never joined that elite list of favorite themes, though Leia's Theme and Han Solo And The Princess have been played multiple (read: countless) times.

 

I've always viewed Luke And Leia as an inferior brother (or sister?) of the Romantic themes that came before.

 

Until about two weeks ago when I was listening to it after quite some time and suddenly it struck me as a revelation: it's a gorgeous piece of music and has one of the most profound and well written melodies of Williams' entire career..!

 

Did you have a theme become a favorite that had been 'under the radar' for a long time..?

 

[Incanus 5,714]

Yeah Luke and Leia is a truly lovely piece, that quite well reflects the love of the siblings and has a certain feeling of serenity and gentle acceptance to it.

 

For me one of these melodies that I got only after years of listening was Cinque's Theme from Amistad. Suddenly the religioso lyricism of the piece just clicked with me like never before. Same goes for the expansive main theme of Saving Private Ryan, which I initially didn't think much of but now feel it is gorgeously moving with its broad long melodic line.

[pete 907]

I used to play a simple arrangement of it on guitar. Playing a Williams piece, however simple the arrangement, always results in me appreciating the piece more. I was lucky enough to hear Williams conduct it in London in 1998. Wow.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,516]

Yes Luke And Leia is a lovely piece. It is a highlight from what may turn out to be the most mature Star Wars score. It's become the Star Wars score that I play the most, especially from Brother/Sister, Father/Son onwards.

 

1998. Do you mean July 1st - 4th, 1998, at The Barbican? Did the LSO play it? I don't remember it. Have you got the set-lists, by any chance? Where where you seated?

I remember being bowled over by the fourth-night encore of Hell's Kitchen.

[Incanus 5,714]

Just now, Richard said:

1998. Do you mean July 1st - 4th, 1998, at The Barbican? Did the LSO play it? I don't remember it. Have you got the set-lists, by any chance? Where where you seated?

I remember being bowled over by the fourth-night encore of Hell's Kitchen.

Ah Sleepers is another whole score that took few years to sink in and after that I loved the whole thing. Hell's Kitchen must have been a killer piece performed live.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,516]

Not to boast, Incanus, but...it was, and it was unexpected.

 

I wish I had both the set-lists.

[Sandor 797]

26 minutes ago, Incanus said:

 Same goes for the expansive main theme of Saving Private Ryan, which I initially didn't think much of but now feel it is gorgeously moving with its broad long melodic line.

 

Do you mean the theme that opens Omaha Beach..?

[Incanus 5,714]

2 minutes ago, Sandor said:

 

Do you mean the theme that opens Omaha Beach..?

Yes, that's the one.

[Sandor 797]

Just now, Incanus said:

Yes, that's the one.

 

I agree, that theme is beautiful.

[pete 907]

20 minutes ago, Richard said:

1998. Do you mean July 1st - 4th, 1998, at The Barbican? Did the LSO play it? I don't remember it. Have you got the set-lists, by any chance? Where where you seated?

I remember being bowled over by the fourth-night encore of Hell's Kitchen.

 

Yes, it was part of the Star Wars suite performed on the first two nights along with Asteroid Field and Throne Room. I remember being surprised and blown away by Sleepers as well! I have the encores noted in a diary I kept at the time, but here's the program sans encores:

 

I went to every night and the open rehearsal on the Friday morning. I figured it might be my only chance to see Williams in concert. Different seats each night. I was quite close to Williams on I think the second night. I was just happy to get tickets as I was travelling in Africa when the concerts were announced and I was terrified I wouldn't be able to get any. If I recall, I was back in London by the time tickets went on sale.

 

I recall Schindler's List and Raiders March were encores the first two nights - I thought Sleepers was also an encore those nights. I think Throne Room was an encore on the final two nights. I'll check my diary later. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,516]

Oh, wow!!! Thanks for that!!!!!!!!

 

If I remember  rightly, he also conducted Schindler's List with the lady soloist getting not only a standing ovation, but a bunch of red roses!

 

I have always thought that set two was, by far, the most interesting set. Didn't he conduct The Raider's March as an encore at the end of set one?

 

£6? £6???!!!! I never paid no 6 bleedin' pounds. More like £25! Mind you, I did have a great seat: right in the middle of row D.

[pete 907]

Yeah, she got a bunch of flowers. That was such a beautiful moment^ I think I teared up during Schindler's List! I loved all the big themes from the first two nights, biut yes, it was fascinating hearing the Tuba concerto for the first time and to hear Cowboys, JFK despite a huge bum note during Arlington^ - and the Reivers Suite. And Olympic Fanfare and Theme never sounded more glorious^. Also my first time - and I guess yours as well - to hear Sound the Bells and Celebrate Discovery Fanfare. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,516]

First time? Sorry, dude. I frist saw JW conduct (the LSO, at The Barbican) in June (or was it July?) 1982, where he premiered Adventures On Earth. I really am unable to explain how I felt at the end of 15 (ish) minutes of the most incredible, complex, beautiful film music I had ever heard, but I am sure you can guess.

I next saw JW at the Filmharmonic, in January (I think) 1986, at the RAH.

[pete 907]

Wow... Adventures on Earth back in 82! Envy you^. I meant first time hearing Sound The Bells, Celebrate Discovery, and the tuba concerto. I assumed those just weren't available back then, but you may have been more connected^.  I was only in London for two years on a working holiday visa. I was just glad my time coincided with a Williams visit. But unfortunately, I had to leave the country a couple of weeks before the Goldsmith concerts in early 1999. Saw him give a talk though with the director of The Edge. Good memories! I miss London^  

[Naïve Old Fart 9,516]

Ah! Right. Yes, it was the first time, in the UK, at least, that JW conducted those pieces.

 

Warning - Dick envy time: I was at the 70th birthday bash for JG in March, 1999, at The Barbican. None too shabby, it was, too.

[stuttersteps 1]

Hey guys,

 

Has anyone listened to David Collins' analysis of this theme on the Star Wars Oxygen podcast?  In episode 10 (around the 27:30 mark), he makes a pretty fascinating "revelation" about the first five notes of the theme.  Whether it's intentional by the Maestro or coincidental, it's an intriguing find! 

[Quintus 5,399]

What does he say? 

[Bespin 8,480]

Luke and Leia use a little combination of notes that can also be heard in Leonard Bernstein's "Make Our Garden Grow".

 

Of course, the context is different, the development is also very different... and the work of John Williams is of course, Superior!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I like this tune, but it has some of those odd Williams modulations that make me raise my eyebrows and never quite "gel" for me no matter how many times I hear them, like he uncharacteristically wrote himself into a corner or just wanted to get from point A to point B and didn't quite take as creative a route as he usually might.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well he's never been great at themes, so....

 

Fair effort though.

[nightscape94 965]

"Luke and Leia" is a wonderful theme that is poorly incorporated into the score and into the saga.  I'm fond of the concert version, but outside of, what, two moments it just never showed up anywhere else.

 

6 hours ago, Incanus said:

Same goes for the expansive main theme of Saving Private Ryan, which I initially didn't think much of but now feel it is gorgeously moving with its broad long melodic line.

 

One of my absolute favorite Williams themes from one of my absolute favorite cues.  Gorgeous is right.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

But to be serious, it is one of those few things that I'd say are Williams' weaknesses: shifty modulations (especially in theme suites (when compared to his many brilliant ones)), overdoing endings/too many codas....

 

2 minutes ago, nightscape94 said:

One of my absolute favorite Williams themes from one of my absolute favorite cues.  Gorgeous is right.

 

That one is wonderful.  Weirdly similar to one of the themes from U-571.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Oh yes, his false ending syndrome. It can be annoying. The Forest Battle is ruined by it. DOTF harmed...

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

The NBC news theme is where I first noticed it.

[nightscape94 965]

5 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

But to be serious, it is one of those few things that I'd say are Williams' weaknesses: shifty modulations (especially in theme suites (when compared to his many brilliant ones)), overdoing endings/too many codas....

 

I think it depends on the theme.  Luke and Leia is a bit samey throughout, so to make up for it he constantly shifts the key to compensate, to make it sound like there's a progression going on.  To use Rey's theme to counterbalance, that theme is perfect in its suite version because her theme has several components.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Like on old person trying to tell you a story and getting a bit confused near the end and repeats himself!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

You said it, not me!

 

3 minutes ago, nightscape94 said:

 

I think it depends on the theme.  Luke and Leia is a bit samey throughout, so to make up for it he constantly shifts the key to compensate, to make it sound like there's a progression going on.  To use Rey's theme to counterbalance, that theme is perfect in its suite version because her theme has several components.

 

Right, but I don't mind the idea of modulating in general, or that he does it to keep things interesting.  It's just that sometimes they sound very awkward, and I'm not exactly one to be squeamish about "different" harmonic stuff....

[Loert 2,511]

It was my favourite romantic tune from Star Wars, until I listened to the concert version of Princess Leia, which knocked me off of my seat!

 

It is lovely though. And I don't mind the shifty modulations - it's fun guessing where Williams is heading with his music!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Gotta watch those shifty modulations! Especially after dark.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Actually upon listening there's only one such moment here, at 1:10.  That just seems like an inserted little bit of connective material that doesn't "flow."  Just feels awkward.

 

It's sort of the same issue I have with the melody from his Elegy, which seems like two very different halves were pushed together - the first being quite lovely and elegiac, the second, oddly melodramatic.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

Well he's never been great at themes, so....

 

Mmm what?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Humour....it is difficult concept.

[igger6 894]

Since no one has pointed it out yet, the David Collins observation that stuttersteps referenced is that

Spoiler

the five main notes of the theme (the "Make Our Garden Grow" notes, if you will) are actually drawn pitch-for-pitch from within the main line of Luke's theme, a.k.a. the main franchise theme, just with altered durations.  If you look at Luke's theme (dun-dun-dun DAAAAH, DAAAAH, dun-dun-dun DAAAHH, DAAAHH) the bolded notes are the backbone of "Luke and Leia."

 

 

I don't remember Collins' thematic justification for this, but it satisfied me at the time.

 

[Loert 2,511]

1 hour ago, igger6 said:

Since no one has pointed it out yet, the David Collins observation that stuttersteps referenced is that

  Hide contents

the five main notes of the theme (the "Make Our Garden Grow" notes, if you will) are actually drawn pitch-for-pitch from within the main line of Luke's theme, a.k.a. the main franchise theme, just with altered durations.  If you look at Luke's theme (dun-dun-dun DAAAAH, DAAAAH, dun-dun-dun DAAAHH, DAAAHH) the bolded notes are the backbone of "Luke and Leia."

 

 

 

Yeah, and the second time round, the melody falls by step (Gb-F-Eb), similar to how Luke's theme falls in step (Eb-D-C)...

 

This Williams guy...he's GOOD!

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

3 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Humour....it is difficult concept.

If you write one statement (supposed joke), when you have Goldsmith and maybe another composer in higher regard than Williams... many people preffer the themes of morricone, barry or others..so even if it was strange coming from you...it was a probable response.

 

and then you make a feasible statement "fair effort, though"

 

how in the hell am i going to suppose to know that you were joking???.

 

Emoticons dude!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I've never been a fan of the concert arrangement. Structurally the theme is too slight to sustain itself for 4 minutes (explaining the need for modulations), and the B section doesn't really hold my interest. It's a case of one great idea spread too thin.

 

I prefer Brother and Sister. The interpolations of the Force Theme and that triplet ostinato/accompaniment add a great deal.

 

 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Agreed!

[rpvee 805]

It's one of my favorite Williams themes!  I never understood why the second halves of the theme's parts were sped up during its couple appearances in Jedi.  I much prefer the concert version, personally, and I'm so glad I got to see Williams conduct it with the Pops a few years ago (even with some strange microedits).

 

And for those wondering about how it's derived from the main title, this breaks it down well:

 

https://soundcloud.com/brianign/star-wars-oxygen-ign-clip-5

[Giftheck 916]

When I was doing the revision for my GCSEs I would almost constantly have this piece on loop (though the version I had at the time came off a Sci-Fi music collection set, so it was the Boston Pops recording). It's a great piece.

[publicist 4,643]

The piece is OK, but the first 30 seconds with that spheric introduction are sublime.

[aviazn 273]

I fell in love with this theme after stumbling upon it in a piano medley of film themes by Michael Hawley. It's all very George Winston-y, but such a gorgeous theme when played simply. I love how he draws out the opening notes. Last track here:

http://web.media.mit.edu/~mike/music/hawleyconcert-1986/

[Cantus Venti 13]

I used to wander the windy sand dunes and fisherman villages listening to Luke and Leia's and similar themes. That's what it reminds me of. A kind of lost wandering external with a familiar warm inside.

 

Although not the best theme ever, it has some good JW string orchestration midway into it.

[leeallen01 2,136]

This is, and always has been, my favourite theme from the saga. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's not as good as Rey's Theme.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

"Luke and Leia" is what I was afraid Rey's Theme would sound like.  Thankfully it didn't.

[nightscape94 965]

The thematic material for ROTJ is overall much weaker than SW and ESB.  It's like he ran out of gas by that point in the OT.  TFA is...well...an awakening!

[publicist 4,643]

It fits the film to a T, though (ewok music, for better or worse!). And the emperor's theme, which i believe wasn't conceived before ROTJ, is a pretty great and different addition to the SW baddie universe. 

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I've got a lot of time for Jabba's theme and the battle of Endor theme (if you can call it that), which sort of prefigures the March of the Resistance.