Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Alexcremers

HBO's Westworld

Recommended Posts

I liked it mostly!  It certainly leaves it much more open ended and full of potential in terms of where season 3 can go than season 1 left season 2.  Like, a world where there are factions of hosts with competing philosophies existing, hidden, in the "real world" among humans sounds like it could generate interesting stories.  I was a little disappointed that Maeve's "witch powers" didn't really amount to anything.  Although they certainly hint at her return as well.  The best part of the episode is all the stuff in the Forge for sure, exploring Jim Delos’ psyche with his son as the guide.  I also loved the visual presentation of the Valley Beyond with their empty bodies falling off the cliff as they enter the doorway.

 

I'm a little confused about a couple of things.

 

1. So clearly Dolores-as-Charlotte built new bodies of both Bernard and Evan Rachel Wood.  But....so who is in the Charlotte body?  Is Dolores in two bodies?

2. What is the secure site where Dolores put the hosts' Eden?

 

Overall, I'm much more satisfied with season 2 than I was with season 1.  I gather just from headlines of articles I've seen that that isn't necessarily a popular feeling.  Of course season 3 won’t happen until 2020 probably.  Looking forward to Evan Rachel Wood commanding Hemsworth (he’s a host!) and Tessa Thompson as leader of a secret robot revolution :)

 

 

EDIT:

 

Ok we had turned off the episode when credits started rolling and I didn’t hear about the post credits scene until later (which really sucks BTW).

 

I’m not sure what that reveal means for...anything?  I guess the implication is that when it cuts back to William getting up to get in the elevator it’s actually at a completely different timeline from the rest of the episode?  Ok?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So how does this season fare compare to the first one?

 

I made it through the first two episodes, then got bored. The more intriguing elements of the first season (Hopkins, world-building, milking the Western genre) seem to step aside for more plot-baiting. I presume it gets better, but I wasn't motivated enough to continue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, KK said:

So how does this season fare compare to the first one? I made it through the first two episodes, then got bored. 

 

 

A3gYOnKCQAEnzqa.png

 

"And I thought it was already boring during the first season!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hopkins helped make a decent sale out of the first season, which was a real mixed bag.

 

This one seems visually less interesting too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found the first season much more engaging than the second.

 

I should say that that is, at least in part, because I put less into it this time (for reasons not entirely due to the show itself). I only watched each episode once, perhaps not as intently as I could have, and maybe the rewards would have been greater if I'd made a greater effort to get involved.

 

But there are some things that I suspect would have been problematic anyway. I was a bit disappointed that they felt the need to construct another season in the form of a mystery, with separate timelines being used to confuse the issues. The subject matter is already dealing with concepts at a very high level, and my initial feeling is that they could have used the time better to explain, explore and clarify the ideas and questions that arise in relation to these concepts rather than messing around with confusticating timelines and making everything harder to digest.

 

More significantly for me, I found the season much less interesting in pure film-making terms. The first season had a dozen or more scenes in which the various aspects (visual, musical and narrative) conspired together to create strikingly memorable, heightened experiences. The second season had basically none of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I thought the storytelling, both thematically and in terms of characters, was much more engaging and interesting in season 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I'm a little confused about a couple of things.

 

1. So clearly Dolores-as-Charlotte built new bodies of both Bernard and Evan Rachel Wood.  But....so who is in the Charlotte body?  Is Dolores in two bodies?

 

There's no reason to be confused about this; We literally can't know.  All we know at the end is that Dolores is back in her own body, and one of the 5 balls she smuggled out is in the Charlotte body, but there's no way to even know who she smuggled out let alone which one she put in Charlotte's body.  To be determined next season!

 

 

11 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

2. What is the secure site where Dolores put the hosts' Eden?

 

Probably some satellite that Delos Corp owns or something . Again, not something we're supposed to know right now.

 

 

11 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Ok we had turned off the episode when credits started rolling and I didn’t hear about the post credits scene until later (which really sucks BTW).

 

Never turn off Westworld just because the credits have begun!  The music is great!  

 

 

11 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I’m not sure what that reveal means for...anything?  I guess the implication is that when it cuts back to William getting up to get in the elevator it’s actually at a completely different timeline from the rest of the episode?  Ok?

 

Read my reply to Jerry about this earlier on the page (or on the previous page, I dunno)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jay said:

Never turn off Westworld just because the credits have begun!  The music is great!  

 

I've been down on Radiohead for a few years now so I wasn't into it.  I used to love that song though.

 

6 minutes ago, Jay said:

Read my reply to Jerry about this earlier on the page (or on the previous page, I dunno)

 

yeah, I plan on going back through the posts today.

 

Like I said, much of my positive feelings about this episode come from the exciting possibilities set up for season 3.  Which is much more than I can say for the end of season 1.  My wife can attest that when the season 1 finale cut to credits, I literally made a raspberry-blowing sound to indicate how bullshitty I thought it all was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

1. So clearly Dolores-as-Charlotte built new bodies of both Bernard and Evan Rachel Wood.  But....so who is in the Charlotte body?  Is Dolores in two bodies?

 

11 minutes ago, Jay said:

There's no reason to be confused about this; We literally can't know.  All we know at the end is that Dolores is back in her own body, and one of the 5 balls she smuggled out is in the Charlotte body, but there's no way to even know who she smuggled out let alone which one she put in Charlotte's body.  To be determined next season!

 

I can't provide a link to back this up at the moment, but I heard and read (from several sources) that the show-runners have stated that there is just one Dolores. The occupant of the other body ("Charlotte"'s, I believe) they referred to simply as a "creature", presumably to leave their options open!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/27/2018 at 8:15 AM, Arpy said:

Finally caught the finale! I agree that the ending for this season could serve as a neat ending for the entire show should it not return. The idea of Dolores and Bernard recreating themselves in the real world with Ford's help was beautiful, their characters have been so consistently strong that they finally got an ending they deserved, whatever that may entail.

 

On 6/27/2018 at 8:23 AM, Jay said:

Yea, I almost don't want to see their adventures in the real world.  But, at the same time, I'm sure Joy and Nolan have cooked up a pretty interesting story for them.

 

I have a feeling season 3 will begin years later, and begin with grand re-opening of Westworld and the other parks after the massacre, and we'll follow some new guests and see some new Hosts in old roles, etc.

 

I like how at the end there was almost a Professor X/Magneto vibe going on there.  Really excited for that dynamic.

 

On 6/27/2018 at 10:01 AM, Glóin the Dark said:

Sure, but those 1s and 0s are brought about by the behaviour of certain electrons (or whatever) in the hardware which accommodates this data storage. Without a plan to maintain or replace this hardware, all of these consciousnesses are at the mercy of circumstances in the physical world which they apparently have no way of influencing. So when humans blow the planet to smithereens, are the Hosts in the Valley Beyond all just doomed along with it? I find it hard to believe that Ford's plan failed to account for this. So presumably he was counting on other hosts, like Dolores, taking control of the Earth. (Though, in that case, I'm somewhat confused about what his ultimate vision for the future of Hostkind actually was...)

 

I definitely was thinking, "this wonderful afterlife/separated life that the hosts have been given would require a massive amount of power to keep it running.  who's paying the electricity bill?!"  But ultimately it's a nitpick that didn't detract from my enjoyment of the episode.

 

On 6/26/2018 at 5:12 PM, Jay said:

At some point in the future, someone has taken the recording of his consciousness and put it into a Host body [or, it's all digital like the earlier Delos tests before the body ones] and ran a fidelity test to see how accurately he'd recreate his real life choice, including killing his daughter again, etc.  So, I would say the footage we saw of him getting up with no fingers, wrapping them up, and heading down the elevator into The Forge was not something the real William did in reality, as he was passed out by that point.  I guess he just lied there collapsed until he was found, and they took his hat off, and used the recording in the hat to make the clone, the clone would only have the memories up until the collapse.   

 

This is also where my thinking was with the post credits scene.  I'm still just annoyed at its existence.  It was such a great ending with Bernard walking out of the door (of the house that Arnold built!  great symbolism there).  Tacking on another confusing timeline thing was a bad decision IMO.

 

6 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

 

 

I can't provide a link to back this up at the moment, but I heard and read (from several sources) that the show-runners have stated that there is just one Dolores. The occupant of the other body ("Charlotte"'s, I believe) they referred to simply as a "creature", presumably to leave their options open!

 

It's a good thing Arnold or Ford left that 3D printer with toner in it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I've been down on Radiohead for a few years now so I wasn't into it.  I used to love that song though.

 

I wasn't talking about Radiohead specifically, i meant the show in general. Djawadi's music is actually good, and it's worth listening to the end credits music of all 20 episodes.  You really can't spare 1 extra minute after an hour to finish the entire episode as the creators intended it to be seen/heard?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Jay said:

You really can't spare 1 extra minute after an hour to finish the entire episode as the creators intended it to be seen/heard?

 

Nope.  I also am not especially enamored of Djawadi's music for the show.  It's fine.  If you guys say it's better than his GOT underscore, I'll take your word for it.

 

I don't think it's strange and it's certainly not disrespectful to turn off the TV when credits start.  I get up when credits roll at movies too unless it's a score I'm interested in, and then only if I'm by myself.  Not gonna make my wife sit through them just so I can listen to the music.

 

Sorry to get defensive but I found your question quite "judgey".  I kind of wish I hadn't seen the post credits scene anyway.  It's a sour note at the end of a good episode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't mean to be judgey

 

The final Ed Harris scene doesn't really create a new timeline per se, just tells us that at some point in the future, someone clones him using a recording from his hat that only goes up until he passed out outside the forge.  Everything that we saw happen to him up throw him blowing off his fingers is what really happened to the real life William, his walk down into the forge and talk with Emily clone is just a fidelity test from some point in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was just so unnecessary.  If that (presumably, based on the physical state of the facility) far future time is important to the ongoing story, then it should’ve been the first scene of season 3 or something.  If it’s not relevant, than it should’ve been left out entirely.

 

But I don’t want to harp on it too much, makes it seem like I’m negative on a finale that I really liked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The writers said it was originally part of the main episode and moved it out to be a post-credit scene in post-production.  It wasn't conceived as some kind of "gotcha" type scene, it just ended up being post-credits to keep up the pacing of the main story

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The most convincing defense I've read of it is that it serves as character development for William, like how pathetic it is that he just can't escape that fucking park.  He's doomed to relive his time there for eternity or whatever.

 

I didn't think that was especially conveyed by the sequence, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It also shows that eventually the park may re-open, but the forge is still in dissaray

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if he'll play a villain?

 

It's all kind of up in the air now, I'm looking forward to how they're going to pull off a third season without the theme park! 

 

It's like, what do you do after Jurassic Park, when the cat's out of the bag? The park is destroyed and the dinosaurs are free...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't necessarily think the public at large knows about the park disaster yet. 

 

I assume season 3 will tell both stories set in the park, and the story of Bernard vs Dolores outside the park.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×