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Alexcremers

HBO's Westworld

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WestWorld 1x03 The Stray

 

Oooh, things got interesting this week!  The biggest reveal is that Ford (Hopkins) didn't create everything himself, but had a partner named Arnold that co-created everything, and it was Arnold that was more interested in making the Hosts have consciousness.  This is good and doesn't contradict anything we've seen yet, but it does feel like a later idea and not something they had in mind when making the pilot, personally...

 

Well the theories that Jimmi Simpson was actually The Man In Black 30 years ago and his scenes were all flashbacks is totally debunked when Dolores ends up at his camp at the end of the episode.  Good - I thought it was a dumb theory anyway.

 

A theory that does still hold water is that Bernard (Jeffrey Wright) is actually a Host himself, which I think is certainly true.  The way Jeffrey Wright has been playing him has been so deliberate in every way, and his dead child backstory seems like something Ford would write for him.  Now you just have to wait to find out if everyone knows (including the women sleeping with him) or only Ford...

 

The story where Ford gives Teddy a backstory about Wyatt, and then him and the Sherrif (with some guests) go to hunt down Wyatt was odd.... the bad guys there seemed to be indestructible for some reason - are they Guests paying for a "ultimate bad guy" package?  Weird.

 

The show continues to have one storyline that seems very separate from everything else.  In the first 2 episodes it was the goings-on of The Man In Black, this week it was when 2 techs went out to hunt down a stray Host that had wondered away from everything.  I enjoyed the performance of the women tech - she reminded me of Ellen Page, and wasn't sure if the male tech was a robot or real?  When they find the Host and he doesn't respond to the Sleep command, that was freaky - seemingly a robot uprising is indeed coming!

 

And that leaves you to wonder: Where the heck is this show going?  I mean, this isn't a one-and-done event, this is a 10 episode season, hoping to be a multi-season series.  It's clear they're setting up a revolt of some kind of the Hosts against there makers, but to what end, and what will be the long, multi-season impacts?  Are they going to do an apocalypse thing, where they start taking over the whole earth?  Or more of a human rights allegory, where they fight to be recognized as living creatures, etc?  It's just not clear at all what everything we're seeing means or is leading to 3 episodes in.  I mean, you can't do season after season after season of just a conflict between these hosts and their makers... right?

 

 

Well, let's see what next week brings.

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23 hours ago, Jay said:

Well the theor[y] that Jimmi Simpson was actually The Man In Black 30 years ago and his scenes were all flashbacks is totally debunked when Dolores ends up at his camp at the end of the episode.

 

I don't believe that it is quite debunked. I thought this theory was far-fetched when I first read it, but after rewatching the second and third episodes, I've had second thoughts. It's striking how there's practically nothing to tie Simpson's character to the same time period as the rest of the events in the show. We assume that Dolores's appearance in the final scene takes place right after her visions of Ed Harris and subsequent escape, but is that definitely the case?

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I don't follow you.  We know the Ed Harris scenes are taking place in the "main" timeline. We know Dolores has "memories" of Ed Harris attacking her. When she runs into Jimmi Simpson's camp, that instantly proves all the Jimmi Simpson scenes have indeed been taking place at the same time as well. How could they not?

 

EDIT: Oh! You're saying that was a "different" Dolores at the end than we had seen all episode, running in for some other reason. Well, I suppose it's possible, but it seems unlikely to me. We'll see!

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On 16/08/2014 at 6:37 PM, Alexcremers said:

I loved Westworld as a young teen. It was my Jurassic Park.

 

Can I assume you know Westworld was Michael Chrichton's earlier novel yes? Arguably his prototype for his later Jurassic Park novel.

 

Melange - Loves the movie too. Dated yes, but still effective. I used to have it on VHS somewhere until a clear out some years back.

 

"That's not supposed to happen"

"I said.....you talk too much"

 

etc etc

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Some fine moments, some finer performances! But this show is getting frustrating. It's constant flirtation around core concepts without revealing anything is getting on my nerves. It's just more ominous foreshadowing, mood-settling and misleading hoopla. Again, I like the potential direction this show could be taking, but it better commit to some proper reveals soon or I may not have the patience to get through it!

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Yes. Sadly, it seems to be embracing the serial-TV, Lost-style, mystery box format. But I remain cautiously optimistic that it'll pay off...

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WestWorld 1x04 Dissonance Theory

 

Well I guess the theory that Jimmi Simpson is a young Ed Harris is completely demolished now that we see Bernard interviewing her just before she wakes up at the camp with him, and the people monitoring her current situation lines up with where we see her with him, etc.  Good!

 

I kind of enjoy Bernard and hers little talks each week, and it was a new twist this week that he mentioned to her the same "center of the maze" thing that Ed Harris is hunting for.  Huh.  Speaking of Ed Harris, he got the most screen time yet this week.  I really enjoyed his parlay with the snake lady, and the way he broke that new character (Paulo from LOST) out of ail.  Didn't really understand the part where he met up with Teddy and untied him.  The key portion of this story this week was when snake lady told Ed Harris that she was set out to kill Wyatt as revenge for killing her father.  Well I had no clue if Wyatt was supposed to be a name I recognized or not, and it turns out that's the name that they gave to Teddy's new programming the previous week, his former "army buddy" that is now terrorizing the countryside that Teddy was supposed to hunt down.  So I suppose now Ed Harris and Teddy will be teaming up to find him, for different purposes?  Is he gonna end up being Arnold or something?

Speaking of Arnold, that was the other interesting thing about Ed Harris's story this week, when he mentioned him as the creator of the park, and story that he's trying to find the end of.  He's been the most intriguing character since Ford mentioned him last week and I hope we meet him this season.  And speaking of Ford, I was beginning to think we wouldn't see Anthony Hopkins this week until we got a nice long scene with him at the end.  I really enjoyed the entire sequence, with the giant excavators, the Hosts that froze on command, and Theresa Ford knows everything about everyone in the park including the employees.

 

There was also a storyline this week with Maeve remembering people in the hazmat suits and that she shoudl have a bullet in her from a past narrative, etc. That whole storyline felt like it was repeating a lot of beats the shows already gone through.

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Oh geez, don't tell me your still a two-timeline truther?  It wasn't JUST that, it was also everything else in the episode... that the "current" Dolores is having an "exitential crisis" just like the Dolores shown with Jimi Simpson, that the booth mentioned she was off her main loop and with guests, right at the same time he approved the pyrotechnics for the current Ed Har.  If it is all insanely meticulous misdirection, it's gotten absurd at this point.

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

...the booth mentioned she was off her main loop and with guests...

 

Yeah, and how did that exchange go exactly? "Is she with a guest?" "We can't tell because Ford has messed up all the storylines!"

 

8 minutes ago, Jay said:

Oh geez, don't tell me your still a two-timeline truther?

 

I wouldn't quite say that. Like I said earlier, I thought the idea was far-fetched and so started looking out for solid evidence to the contrary. Instead I found that the lack of any evidence was startling! Including things like the above exchange, where they could easily have clarified that present-day Dolores is with Jimmi Simpson, but instead decided to obfuscate. One thing is for certain: they are being insanely meticulous in their misdirection in some respect or another. Whether it's in aid of a dual timeline or something else, I don't know.

 

If I were forced to make a bet right now, I'd say that yeah: the Jimmi Simpson and Ed Harris storylines are non-contemporaneous. As to whether they are the same character, that would be a bit less likely, but only a little bit.

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Westworld 1x05 Contrapasso

 

Hmmm well, things seemed to both happen and not happen at all this week.  We're halfway through the first season and I feel like we've had as much plot development as some shows would have had in the first episode!

 

I loved how it opened with Ford talking to the Old Bill Host, with the story about the greyhound that didn't know what to do an obvious parallel to the Man In Black not knowing what to do if he reaches the center of the maze (or will he?).

 

So we learn a little bit more about Arnold this week, with Jimmi Simpson's friend telling him not even a picture of Arnold exists.... this seems really odd and implausible seeing as it was seemingly more him than Ford that created the park, but we'll go with it.  Honestly, it just adds more fuel to the fire that Bernard is a robot that looks like Arnold did.  Which, of course, opens up the possibility that some of the Bernard / Dolores talks we've seen are actually Arnold / Dolores flashback talks perhaps?

 

On the journey out of Sweetwater towards the other town (Pariah), Dolores has a little interview with Ford after she hears him give a sleep command while she's chasing a copy of herself.  I think this basically proves that all the scenes where the employees are talking to the naked Hosts and doing analysis and stuff, they haven't physically removed the Hosts from the park; It's gotta be some kind of VR situations.  So Ford can go into a VR room or whatever, and interface with any host in the park and communicate with them while they "sleep" as far as the guests are concerned.  Pretty neat.  The conversation Ford and Dolores have is fascinating, Ford seems to slip up and refer to himself as Arnold at one point?  Maybe when the real Arnold "died", he transferred his conciousness into the body of a robot that looks like Ford, because Ford died too?  Nah, that's too crazy.  Anyway, it's interesting that Dolores lies when she tells Ford she hasn't heard from Arnold since the day he died, and then talks to someone (we're assuming Arnold) after Ford leaves the room.  I don't think Arnold is really still alive, but it does seem he "infected" the hosts with code that is still doing things 35 years later, as each "awakens".

 

The biggest and hugest reveal this week is that the stray Host that bashed his head in with a rock was actually trying to reach a highpoint to transmit data to a satellite via a hidden transmitter in his arm (apparently, the extra star on Orion's belt tells him which way to point, or something?).  Industrial espionage - of course this is a Chrichton story!  Fascinating stuff, and I'm more more curious to see where that goes next instead of the 2 timelines theories that's for sure....

 

And speaking of that theory, can we put that to bed now?  The Man In Black kills Lawrence this week by hanging him upside down to collect his blood to bring Teddy back to life, and then once the staff gets his body and puts him back into the park, he's in Pariah in the great rare narrative that William and his friend are in.  All these scenes were good, I liked the nitro and the double crossing and all that.  And how about when Williams' friend gets beat up and they abandon him!  It does seem like the further away from Sweetwater, the more intense things get, but is there a safe word or something he can say to quit the game?  

 

Dolores has another vision, see sees another duplicate of herself as a tarot card reader, and of course the tarot card is the same maze symbol that the Man In Black found inside a scalp and Lawrence's son drew in the dirt.  It Arnold put all this in for the Hosts to use to revolt or something when they "awaken", why does he make it all so cryptic? :)

 

I loved that we finally got a scene with Anthony Hopkins and Ed Harris together this week, it was really well done (Hopkins' scenes continue to be a highlight of every episode).  The Man In Black wonders what he'll find inside Ford and draws his knife and Teddy instinctively blocks it, which was cool.  I don't think Ford is a robot, but I like that MIB is thinking about all possibilities.  Speaking of insides, the MIB says this week that when he first started visiting 30 years ago, he cut open a Host and saw robotic parts inside. And at some point he mentioned how robotic they used to act and how their handshakes gave it away.  Can this lay to rest the 2 timelines theory, since all the Hosts seen in the William story act very humanlike just like all the modern day ones?

 

I didn't really understand the bird stuff - why do they have to even built robotic birds instead of just having real birds live in the park?  We know real flies are there.  The only reason I can think of is - theory time! - Is it possible that the park is not actually in the USA, or even on Earth, but in space?  And that's why no planes every fly overhead, and why the employees seem to be very far away from their families and have to live on site?  It's possible!

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Erm, so, after doing some reading online, I may be coming around to the whole 2 timelines thing, actually :P

 

Here are 2 similar versions of this theory that are pretty well thought-out and plausible IMO


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KgK4-1_1yh_vElxgs6b30Au4Cx51hrTVOGXTAS967Pg/view

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/5akr0t/a_twotimeframes_theory_that_isnt_about_the_man_in/

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I didn't know there were so many fan theories!

 

3 hours ago, Jay said:

We're halfway through the first season and I feel like we've had as much plot development as some shows would have had in the first episode!

This is my main issue with the show so far.

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I expect it to speed up. The world-building is meticulous here.

 

So, is Arnold at the centre of the maze?

 

And finally, I'm disappointed with this EP release! Will we get a full release at the end of season? I hope so!

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I don't think Arnold is at the center of the maze, because I think he really is dead.  I think its something like this:

 

~37 years ago Arnold and Ford begin creating Hosts and putting them in their part to work on their programming.  For three years they build the park and improve the Hosts, there are no guests in the part at this time.  Ford and Arnold begin to differ on their ideas of what to do: Ford wants to make the Hosts the perfect vacation hosts for paying guests, Arnold wants them to receive true sentience / consciousness.

~34 years ago there is some kind of incident where Arnold ends up dead just as they are getting ready to open the park to guests.  Arnold's entire existence is quickly buried and the park opens.  However, before Arnold died, he actually snuck secret code into the Hosts that existed at the time (including Delores).  This secret code is "triggered" when a Host "awakens", meaning begins to become aware that the park is not the real world.  When a host has this happen, they follow clues to "the center of the maze", where the next phase of Arnold's plan will begin (no way to guess what this is yet).

~30 years years ago, the Man In Black visits for the first time.  Around this time, there's another "incident", I think this is when a Host (probably Dolores) really got close to 'the center of the maze".  As a result, the area with the church is in it completely buried with only the steeple top showing (seen in Episode 2).

~present day, the Man In Black has explored every single avenue the park has to offer, except one: He at some point found out about Arnold's hidden code for the Hosts (the center of the maze).  He begins to investigate, and we've been following his investigation for 5 episodes in the present timeline.  This is why Ford tells him "its not for you" - the "center of the maze" isn't an ultimate narrative for Guests, its something Arnold put in there for the hosts.

 

Also, in Episode 4, we see Ford is excavating land.  I think he is un-burying the area with the church.  And I think the reason for that is, he realizes that the "incident" that happened 30 years ago (a Host getting close to the center of hte maze) is happening again, and this time he wants to see what happens.  

 

That's all I got!

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Westworld 1x06 The Adversary

 

Wow!  I wasn't expecting there to be an episode without Dolores OR Will!  It was unexpected to not have Evan Rachel Wood or Jimmi Simpson's name in the opening credits (like the odd Game of Thrones episode that doesn't start with Dinklage's name).

 

The industrial espionage plot moved forward a lot this week, lots of interesting twists and turns.  So basically the saboteur is able to alter the Hosts programming of the old models only, and the reason is that the old models can still communicate with legacy equipment in the park that modern hosts can't.  Since they are clearly trying to point towards Arnold being behind all this (and therefore somehow not dead), I am thinking that what's actually happening is some not-yet-seen by us bad guy (I suppose a rival company) is actually behind everything but making it LOOK like Arnold is behind it all.


Speaking of predicting, As SOON as Elsie called Bernard to say she's going alone to investigate the source of the signal, we both called that she'd be killed (though it seems she was possibly only kidnapped).  So predictable!  She fingered Theresa as the one behind things, but again I am betting it is someone making it LOOK like she's involved.

 

It seems most likely to me that Bernard is actually the one, but its kind of a Fight Club situation where he doesn't realize it.  That's because I think he's a Host himself (possibly made to look like Arnold), and the sabotage stuff is programming that his "normal" stuff isn't aware of.

 

The whole sequence with Maeve waking up and asking to be shown around and be reprogrammed and stuff really stretched credibility.  I mean, you can buy one guy who is kind of willing to go along with her demands, but two?  And who was live-updating her code before they could?  Hmmm.

 

The hidden house where Ford has first gen hosts, built by Arnold, that look like his family was a very interesting scene.  Hopkins is just killing it on this show, all his scenes are always great.  It was kind of odd he seemed unfamiliar with the "center of the maze" symbol, or at least hadn't seen it in a long time; Wouldn't he be kind of aware what The Man In Black was up to and that he was walking around with a scalped Host's head that had the symbol on it?  Hmmmm.

 

The Man in Black and Teddy machine gunning all those Union soldiers to get access to the tunnel to Pariah was kind of a fun scene and kind of a lame one.  It's always just too easy for the MIB to get everything he wants.  I dunno.

 

With only 4 episodes left, I hope most of the mysteries will be explained and not left for Season 2!

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Finally got around to this and caught up with the current episode yesterday. I like the dry but deliberate pacing, and how the show seems to show more empathy for the hosts than most of the real people. Also, all the AI/coding stuff is more than mere technobabble, but still grounded and vague enough to be believable.

 

I haven't read about any theories except what's posted here, and I don't want to follow up on those either. I never even thought of the two timelines idea. I have considered that some of the technical personnel might in fact be hosts, but I don't expect it. The show, at least at this stage, seems to be about how the AI acquires consciousness, and already having independent, conscious hosts (regardless of whether they are aware they are artificial) would rather undermine that.

 

I do like the one idea I read at IMDb, that the whole thing might in fact be a sequel to the original film. I guess I should watch that again.

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I've never seen the original film.

 

I don't think its a sequel to the film.  I think the original MIB appearing in the last episode was just a gag for fans, not a true connection

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Apparently there have been more details that can be interpreted that way. And we still don't know the nature of the original incident.

 

It's certainly not a remake of the original. A re-envisioning of the same idea, unless there turns out to be some official continuity between the two.

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Haven't seen episode 7 yet, but HBO just renewed Westworld for Season 2

 

 
Westworld Renewed for Season 2

Bring yourself back online. Westworld is renewed for Season 2.

Posted by Westworld on Montag, 14. November 2016

 

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Derrick the ending was good, but certainly not surprising. I figured Bernard was a Host since episode one or two (whenever we learned his dead son backstory and they talked about how they give Hosts backstories), and as soon as this episode opened with his flashback I knew this would be the episode it's confirmed. And I knew he'd kill Theresa as soon as he got in the elevator with her (even said outloud "he's gonna kill her" to Marcy). 

 

Still, it's overall good, I freaking love Hopkins in this, he's perfect and amazing! 

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Oh yeah, I didn't say it was surprising, but it was just so well played out. They made the reveal pretty chilling, mostly thanks to Hopkins! Sometimes knowing what is going to happen next is almost worse for me, because you either don't want it to, or are just waiting on edge for it to finally erupt just as you hoped for.

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Westworld 1x07 Trompe L'Oeil

 

Wow, things are really moving along now!

 

More good music this week; This time the player-piano was playing that "start of a new day theme" (or whatever it's called) from Djawadi's score, before Maeve shut it down.  Good stuff.

 

I like the advancement of the board of director's plot.  So, it doesn't seem as thought there's a rival company trying to get their tech after all; Theresa was trying to upload the code to the board itself, as the board fears Ford would destroy all the code before he lets it fall into their hands.  Interesting.  The "demonstration" they do to get Bernard fired but ultimately ends up "robotimizing" Clementine is kind of a bummer, because she was a cool character.  Oh well.

 

I enjoyed Theresa's scene with the new board member character Charlotte, she's another interesting character (in a show that continues to be full of them).  She seems like she could have some ulterior motive than has been explained so far, but I'm not sure.

 

Amazing nobody but the two techs have realized Maeve is staying awake through her "deaths" and is plotting to escape. It makes me wonder if people in fact DO know, and she's actually in a scripted loop and doesn't realize it, and won't be able to actually accomplish it.  Some kind of code to keep the Hosts in line even when they "awaken" or something.  Hmm.

 

The Williams/Dolores story advanced this week as well, with Will having some kind of epiphany that what the park doesn't (only) offer is escapism, but the possibility of revealing a guest's true character.  Will seems to realize he's fallen for a robot, but bangs her regardless.  Seemingly he will no longer be marrying Logan's sister when he gets out now?  I think it won't be long now until his storyline is either revealed to be a flashback, or not.  It still remains pretty separated from everything else happening on the show.

 

Back to the Board storyline, the show finally talks about something I was wondering about: The technology in the park and whether it only exists in the park.  Realistically, in a world where these robots can be built that are so realistic they can fool humans (even ones having regular sex with them), its extremely unlikely that a rich person's escape theme park would be the only place that has them.  I'm starting to think this show exists in a world where there are human looking robots everywhere, but what makes the Westworld robots special is the code Arnold put in that Ford has now activated that makes them more realistic (the whole part about using knowledge of countless loops to improvise and go off script).  And that's what the board wants, and what Ford doesn't want them to have...

 

Which brings us to the ending.  As I mentioned above it wasn't a surprise to me that Bernard was a Host, but what we didn't know before was if everyone else knew and he didn't, or if he even knew himself.  The reveal that only Ford knew, and that he's been making secret Hosts no one knows about, Hosts that are so good they can trick humans, is a good one.  Hopkins has been truly phenomenal all season - I mentioned in early reviews that he expertly delivers lines in a way that you know he knows more than he's letting on, and of course he sure did!  I'm sure there are more reveals coming as well...Surely Bernard isn't the only host he has integrated into the complex, and we still don't know all the details of the new narrative he's having with all the excavation work, etc.  Can't wait to see where that goes.  Also curious to see how Theresa's death is handled next week, and how Bernard's acting changes (or doesn't).

 

Gripping show!

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On 11/15/2016 at 8:10 PM, Jay said:

Realistically, in a world where these robots can be built that are so realistic they can fool humans (even ones having regular sex with them), its extremely unlikely that a rich person's escape theme park would be the only place that has them.  I'm starting to think this show exists in a world where there are human looking robots everywhere, but what makes the Westworld robots special is the code Arnold put in that Ford has now activated that makes them more realistic...

 

Or maybe Ford (and/or Arnold) found a way of producing artificial intelligence that nobody else has been able to get close to, so that there aren't comparably sophisticated "robots" everywhere in the outside world, and the code for creating them is this "intellectual property" that Ford has been obstinately withholding.

 

On the multiple time frame issue, I'm now firmly on the side that Jimmi Simpson and Ed Harris are playing the same character.

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I stand corrected re the host(s) among the techs issue. I didn't like the idea when I read about it here; so far, the show seemed (to me) to be about emergence and artificial intelligence *without* the explicit support of humans. The Maeve storyline remains separate from Bernard's though, so that aspect is still there, and Ford alone producing hosts in secret is intriguing enough to tentatively win me over.

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Westworld 1x08 Trace Decay


Great episode, things are being explained and deepened all over the place.

 

The scenes with Ford and Bernard greatly explain the Hosts, how their work, their "consciousness", and how Ford and Arnold differed in their ideas.  The whole "erasing the memories so they don't remember the pain" aspect reminded me of Eternal Sunshine and Nolan's own Memento.  Nice, but sad, to get confirmation that that Ellen Page lookalike girl was dead (I figured it was Bernard that abducted her).

 

I still am convinced everything Maeve is going through not not secret subterfuge no one knows about but actually programmed in.  It's possible too the blond tech is actually another Host.  Her story is still one of the more compelling ones to watch, regardless.  How easily she was able to get reprogrammed is really only realistic if the staff knows what she's doing, but once she is reprogrammed watching her tell other Hosts what to do was cool.  The way she relives her memories of the Man In Black stabbing her and shooting her daughter really explains everything Dolores is going through

 

It's now abundantly clear that the Will/Dolores story is indeed 30 years prior and Will is a young Man in Black.  I wonder how many viewers will actually be blown away by the reveal next week or the week after?  Anyway, it was so cool when Dolores got to the outskirt town (does it have a name?).  We got to see her being trained to dance with all the other original hosts from 34 years ago, her with Will once the town is buried from 30 years ago, and her alone at the rebuilt town after Ford's diggers uncovered everything from the current timeframe (this ties in with a few episodes back when we briefly saw her alone on the train).  Hopefully we find out next week everything that happened in this town....

 

And we learned a lot about the Man In Black this week!  His story to Teddy about how his wife left him and how the park actually revealed his true identity and the outside world is the fake personality was good, despite being so obvious-exposition-y.  And ties into the lesson Will learned last week.  Curious to see what will happen next week with him, Teddy, and Wyatt - I assume we'll finally meet him.

 

The only storyline not making too much sense is Charlotte's plan.  Supposedly her interests mirror the board, who want all the code for the park, because Ford won't give it to them.  OK.  But I don't get how she has access to the code, and thinks she can put it in a Host, and have him walk out with it.  Besides the exploding spines thing... if she actually has access to the code, why the fuck would she need a host to smuggle it out?  We can already cram huge amounts of data into small places today, and in the future it would be even more so.  I dunno.  I imagine the body count will continue to grow before the season's over as part of this storyline!

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7 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Finally all caught up with that show. Not entirely won over by it like most of you are, even if I acknowledge it's definitely a quality show: great production values, excellent cast, surprisingly decent Djawadi score (with some really cool moments, even if based on pre-existing material, like the Paint it, Black sequence in the pilot), etc...

 

Yes, the acting and high production values are the clear highlights here.  Hopkins is really knocking it out of the part every week, and Harris, Wright, Wood, and others are terrific every week as well.  And yes, SURPRISING is the best word to describe the Djawadi score, for sure.  I mostly don't like anything he's ever done (including 90% of his GOT music), but I genuinely sit up and notice a good score cue in probably every episode here.  Who knew!?

 

7 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

But... To me, most of the storylines aren't particularly engrossing. I mean, for example, William's and the Man In Black's storyline are fine, but since the destination/end goal of each one is quite blurry, it's hard for me to really care about what's happening (episode 8 helped fix that a bit, though).

 

MIB's back story got a lot more interesting last week when he described the backstory of his wife's suicide.

 

7 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Maeve's storyline is the worst for me, because of how it's executed: the two tech guys are just so fucking dumb, I just don't buy it. Maeve threatened them if htey didn't improve her various personality traits? Simple: just cut down her intelligence, erase her memory, and you're good to go! Fuck's sake...

 

Well, yea.  This is why I've been saying for weeks now that I think she's not truly breaking free, she's not truly doing something that the heads of the park don't know about.  I think she's running through a programmed loop of her own, and maybe one or both techs helping her are also Hosts, and maybe Ford is allowing all this to happen to study something... or something like that.  Basically, I think her season arc will end with her either dead or back in her normal role, unchanged by what's happening now.

 

7 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Ultimately, the most interesting storyline remains Ford's and the whole "behind-the-scenes" storyline.

 

Definitely!

 

7 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Another thing that participates in me not being completely convinced by the show are the pretty predictable twists: Theresa being the one stealing information, Elsie being kidnapped/killed just as she discovered the secret, Bernard being a Host... While it doesn't make the show bad, it makes it less thrilling.

 

What made Theresa being the sabateur so predictable?  And yea, it was completely obvious Elsie was going to be killed as soon as she left to investigate on her own, just like it was obvious Theresa would be killed the moment she got in the elevator with Bernard.  BUT, like you said, these kind of obvious things don't REALLY hurt the show, because there is SO MUCH ELSE going on, and they didn't try to build up these moments for very long at all, each death happening shortly after the predictable setup.

 

 

7 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

That being said, William's storyline and the Man In Black/Ford's storyline not happening in the same time period and William and MIB being the same guy is actually something done pretty subtly, and if I hadn't read about that theory online (which I thought was correct from the moment I read it, after having seen Episode 3 I believe), I'm not sure I would have ever thought of that, and would probably would have been stunned when they'll reveal it.

 

While watching Episode 2 I observed how separate the William/Logan stuff was from everything else, but I think I read the theory online that he's the same character as Ed Harris right after that episode, which of course made me pay attention to details from every episode forward.  I do wonder at what point I would have made the connection myself, now I'll never know.  Things like them having the same knife, etc I probably wouldn't have noticed, for sure.

 

7 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

I guess the biggest giveaway so far (for people not paying that many attention to details) was the MIB's reaction after seeing the blonde girl in Episode 8 (since we saw William with that girl just as he arrived to Westworld).

 

I really don't see how that's a big giveaway.  He's been coming to the part for 30 years, right? She could have played many different roles in that time, no?

 

7 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Oh, and about another theory I think hasn't been mentioned here (and that will most likely turn out to be true, too, so I'll use spoiler tags):

 

 

 

That certainly is one I came up with all on my own.  Very early on, I guess as soon as Bernard talked about his dead child backstory and they talked about how the Hosts have written backstories I figured he was a Host, and right around the same time I figured he was made to look like Arnold.  Though the fact that some Bernard / Dolores conversations were in the same room that we didn't "properly" see until episode 7 is something I didn't notice.  (I only watch these episodes once, I don't rewatch).

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Pretty much agree with you BB. The plots generally meander a lot without saying much. But Hopkins, some key performances and the handsome production values keep you going. 

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It's certainly possible that the plotting of the final 2 episodes will make up for the "meandering" or "slowness" or whatever shortcomings many feel it has and made for a overal solid first season.  Could be the kind of show that plays better binged over a period of 10 days instead of a period of 10 weeks.

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At long last, we agree on something again, my brother!

 

10 minutes ago, Jay said:

I really don't see how that's a big giveaway.  He's been coming to the park for 30 years, right? She could have played many different roles in that time, no?

 

Well, sure, but the fact that the only other scene we, the audience, have seen her in was the one where she was with William is what gives it away, in my opinion. We haven't seen her anywhere else or interact with anyone else but William.

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We have seen her somewhere else, actually.  When Dolores arrived at the outskirt town, she was one of the Hosts there in the earliest timeframe (the dancing lessons)

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Yep. With the

 

Spoiler

Bernard/Arnold

 

reveal probably kept for the finale.

 

I'm thinking that what the show is building up to is probably Arnold (dead or alive, that remains to be seen. Probably still alive) trying to turn the machines against Ford, because he thinks he went a bit cuckoo with his god-like complex. Some sort of "war" between Ford trying to keep control of his little world and Arnold and his wish to free the machines. Or something like that.

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21 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

At long last, we agree on something again, my brother!

 

May this usher in a new golden age!

 

22 minutes ago, Jay said:

It's certainly possible that the plotting of the final 2 episodes will make up for the "meandering" or "slowness" or whatever shortcomings many feel it has and made for a overal solid first season.  Could be the kind of show that plays better binged over a period of 10 days instead of a period of 10 weeks.

 

I hope so. We'll have to see tonight!

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4 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

I'm thinking that what the show is building up to is probably Arnold (dead or alive, that remains to be seen. Probably still alive) trying to turn the machines against Ford, because he thinks he went a bit cuckoo with his god-like complex. Some sort of "war" between Ford trying to keep control of his little world and Arnold and his wish to free the machines. Or something like that.

 

Well, yea!

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