Will The Hobbit age as well as The Lord of the Rings?

[Red 75]

The films have already started to fade from relevancy from what I've noticed. I have a couple friends who are massive Tolkien fans and they haven't even been bothered to see the third movie. And it can't be overstated how much they love Jackson's Rings trilogy. To me, that's the worst omen I can think of for the lasting legacy of the Hobbit movies. 

[Wojo 2,453]

I loved the Rings trilogy, but I didn't see the second or third Hobbit films, and the first I saw one time. They are completely irrelevant to me. 

[Quintus 5,399]

Or 'obsolete'. Say it! 

[Barnald 365]

I think, in the grand scheme of things - and until they are remade - these Hobbit films will always have a fairly strong degree of relevance based on two factors:

 

1) They're 'follow-ups/prequels' to one of the most successful and critically acclaimed film series' of recent memory, itself adapted from a famous set of books

2) They're 'adaptations' of one of the most popular and beloved books of all time

 

And I think that's enough really. Sure they will not have the same enduring quality of LOTR, but very few films do. By the same token, whatever one thinks of the Star Wars prequels, one could surely never say that they were irrelevant or obselete (to be honest, I'm one of those sick deviants who prefers ROTS to TFA).

[Bilbo 3,709]

1 hour ago, Barnald said:

I think, in the grand scheme of things - and until they are remade - these Hobbit films will always have a fairly strong degree of relevance based on two factors:

 

1) They're 'follow-ups/prequels' to one of the most successful and critically acclaimed film series' of recent memory, itself adapted from a famous set of books

2) They're 'adaptations' of one of the most popular and beloved books of all time

 

And I think that's enough really. Sure they will not have the same enduring quality of LOTR, but very few films do. By the same token, whatever one thinks of the Star Wars prequels, one could surely never say that they were irrelevant or obselete (to be honest, I'm one of those sick deviants who prefers ROTS to TFA).

 

As someone who consumes every bit of Star Wars media available I can confirm that the PT is still relevant within Star Wars fandom.

 

I've seen it referenced directly in stuff like Big Bang Theory and the Flash recently too. They'll never have the same legacy as the OT but they've done better tha Avatar!

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

To be fair, there hasn't been much Avatar-related content since the film's release.  Had they already made a sequel or two by now, I imagine it would still be relevant.  I've heard that Star Wars went through something semi-similar in the dead-zone between ROTJ and TPM.

 

The prequels have had the advantage of an animated series, numerous (awful) books and comics in addition to stuff like toys and video games to keep them in the public conscious.  

[Bilbo 3,709]

The prequel era books are generally ok. It's the post RotJ novels you need to watch out for. 

[Jay 37,339]

The best parts of the Hobbit movies (besides the scores) are the fantastic acting by Ian McKellen and Martin Freeman (and several others).  That alone makes all three worth watching once.

[Barnald 365]

Armitage is also terrific, and Ken Stott deserves a special mention. Indeed, on the whole I find it very difficult to fault the acting (Lily and Bloom being the main exceptions). I was unsure about Pace after DoS, but felt he really came into his own in BotFA.

[Jay 37,339]

I can't really find fault with any of the acting in the films - the actors all did a fine job I would say.

 

The biggest problems the film have are the plot, the dialogue, the special effects, the editing, the pacing, and many scenes that are off-tone compared to the rest of the film.  You know, just those minor things

[Barnald 365]

This is going to turn into another of those 'things I find wrong with The Hobbit' threads isn't it? It was ever thus

[Jay 37,339]

Honestly though McKellen and Freeman are amazing in these films

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,339]

He is great too!

[Kühni 485]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

The biggest problems the film have are the plot, the dialogue, the special effects, the editing, the pacing, and many scenes that are off-tone compared to the rest of the film.  You know, just those minor things

 

For me, the major problem was how unbalanced all of these things were in the end. When your title character becomes more of a secondary player, because you (PJ) feel that the battle scenes must be, well, more, than you're not helping things. At all.

 

I, too, love LotR to bits, and have seen each part dozens of times. With the Hobbit trilogy, I saw AUJ twice, its EE once; DoS and TaBA once each, and I didn't bother with the EEs. I believe the Hobbit trilogy started out well, and probably would have had less problems if they had retained the original two-part approach. Some of that trilogy's individual instalments had excellent parts, but unfortunately, their sum didn't really congeal into a convincing whole. And thus, especially with the success of LotR in mind, I rate the Hobbit saga as a big disappointment.

[Jay 37,339]

You should watch the EE of DOS if for nothing more than to hear all the extra music Shore wrote for that film synced to picture

[Wojo 2,453]

Just like one should climb Everest, just because it is there? 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Or El Capitan!

[Jay 37,339]

20 minutes ago, Woj said:

Just like one should climb Everest, just because it is there? 

 

No.

[Kühni 485]

I agree with Jay; less people should climb Everest.

 

Or, to think this thought in a more macabre direction, more people should die climbing Everest.

 

Which Middle-earth theme would be the best to be applied for this situation?

[Jay 37,339]

Dangerous Passes!

[gkgyver 1,645]

For Cosman, the Hobbits' Antics.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What?

[Incanus 5,714]

On 21.4.2016 at 10:14 PM, Kühni said:

Which Middle-earth theme would be the best to be applied for this situation?

Dangerous Passes followed by Weakness and Redemption and Gandalf's Farewells and then Noble End.

[Barnald 365]

I think a nice inspirational start with the 'Edge of the Wild' company motif, followed by those other themes as things progressively sour.

[Luke Skywalker 1,794]

What's so bad about Pope's orchestrations that renders a score obsolete???

 

I think the scores suffer because the movies are not as good as LOTR.

 

[Jay 37,339]

3 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

I think the scores suffer because the movies are not as good as LOTR.

 

Absolutely that's true. The choices PJ made that worsened the film worsened the score too.

[Kühni 485]

But consider this: For AUJ, the soundtrack came out before (m)any had had a chance to see the film. (I waited to see the film first, and also had avoided all previous discussions.) So people hear Shore's original, magnificent music the way he had intended. Then, you go to the movie with very high expectations and very quickly (I'm assuming), you become bewildered. Your expectations aren't (A) met in many places and (B) some of the changes are so confusing, as with Nazgûl/Reclamation/Eagle Flight. You can't help but be disappointed and, perhaps, you become as consequence more reserved about parts 2 and 3.

 

(For me, the same holds true, only vice-versa.)

 

While the source material isn't anywhere near as strong as LotR (and how could it be, frankly?), I think that an artistically superb and entertaining two-parter could have resulted from it. For reasons, it hasn't, and it affected Shore's music after his first go at it with AUJ. If you watch the making-of video of the fall 2012 recording sessions, you can see his enthusiasm and vigor while conducting, presumably before the score had to re-written and re-recorded. Had it been possible for him to continue in this way for the second part of the movie, I'm pretty confidant a much stronger score, and thus perhaps more impressive and "long-lived" work, would have been the result. Mind, the music that we did get is, by and large, still better than almost anything written in 2012-14, but within the context of Shore's entire Middle-earth oeuvre, it's "only" second-tier.

 

However, I wouldn't diminish these scores' actual quality just because they didn't catch the audience's attention the way LotR did. And if I'm completely honest, I'm not sure anything really could have.

 

A good weekend to the gallery! 

[gkgyver 1,645]

Frankly, I do not think the thematic material in AUJ is in any way worse than that of LotR. The originally conceived themes, that is.

Edge of the Wild and Bilbo's theme(s) are pitch perfect, and - teeth clenched - Misty Mountains is brilliant too.

The Erebor ascending theme is very evocative, and conveys a wonderful sense of yearning, especially on cor anglais in the early scenes in Bag End.

Smaug's theme is awesome as well.

What was slightly disappointing to me were the direct quotes of the Mordor accompanying figures directly translated into new themes. I would have wished for a bit more originality there.

 

What I do find brilliant though is the retrograde of the Threat of Mordor. Did anyone else notice that you could categorize the ascending motif in the Hobbit as Mordor in Ascension, and once the Necromancer is expelled, it goes to Mordor in Decline FotR through TTT, and in RotK, it sneaks back to Mordor in Ascension.

[Jay 37,339]

5 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

What I do find brilliant though is the retrograde of the Threat of Mordor. Did anyone else notice that you could categorize the ascending motif in the Hobbit as Mordor in Ascension, and once the Necromancer is expelled, it goes to Mordor in Decline FotR through TTT, and in RotK, it sneaks back to Mordor in Ascension.

 

Woah.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[gkgyver 1,645]

As far as PJ tracking Mordor music is concerned, I don't think that would be the case at all.

You should keep in mind that he dialed out the two instances in AUJ and DoS that played Sauron's theme in full, namely "Hill Of Sorcery" and "A Necromancer".

 

The first time it plays fully orchestrated is when Sauron reveals himself to Gandalf, which, to be fair, makes sense.

 

@ Jay   Are you being sarcastic?

[Jay 37,339]

Me?  About what?

 

I take Shore's Middle Earth scores very seriously, they are my favorite film scores of all time!

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Bofur01 245]

 

14 minutes ago, SafeUnderHill said:

 

Ok sure that particular theme he wanted to remove for presumably spoiler reasons.

 

Yet he kept the statement in "The House of Beorn" for the conversation between Gandalf and Beorn... Hmm...

[gkgyver 1,645]

Well, that statement isn't really as in-your-face, and it doesn't involve Sauron directly.

Hearing that theme with Sauron on screen, well, that's a bit much.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Gollum Cat 24]

6 hours ago, gkgyver said:

What I do find brilliant though is the retrograde of the Threat of Mordor. Did anyone else notice that you could categorize the ascending motif in the Hobbit as Mordor in Ascension, and once the Necromancer is expelled, it goes to Mordor in Decline FotR through TTT, and in RotK, it sneaks back to Mordor in Ascension.

 

This is very intriguing to me - I'd love to listen to it - but I don't which themes Threat of Mordor, Mordor in Decline, and Mordor in Ascension are. Is there a forum post with all these themes listed out, since we don't have a Doug Adams book yet?

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Naïve Old Fart 9,513]

No.

[Jay 37,339]

2 months later, Richard chimes in!

[gkgyver 1,645]

And what a precious opinion it is.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No.

 

The scores are already forgotten.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,339]

The Hobbit films aren't as good as the LOTR films, and didn't make as much money or win as many awards or have ad much of a cultural impact.

 

The Hobbits scores aren't as good as the LOTR scores, and didn't sell as many copies or generate as much discussion outside of die-hard fan circles.

 

But that doesn't mean the scores are bad at all - they're actually quite good. Goddamn good.

[Wojo 2,453]

I bought the second Hobbit score but never listened. The third Hobbit score and hasn't left my Amazon wish list. 

[gkgyver 1,645]

10 hours ago, Stefancos said:

No.

 

The scores are already forgotten.

 

Sorry, I had my reservations, but whoever said you became a troll was right.

You are.

 

Jesus, stop being a bitter arse, Dude.

[Jay 37,339]

How? He's exactly right. No one discusses the scores any more outside of this corner of the internet, the films had no lasting impact - not even the 48 fps. 

 

We love the scores here, but that doesn't mean the world did.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Exactly! I like the Hobbit scores, but they havent had the impact that the three LOTR ones had, not even close.

[Jay 37,339]

Indeed.