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John Williams to Score Kobe Bryant short film "Dear Basketball"


pete

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From the video interviews detailing how Williams got attached to the project and how he managed to score this wonderful piece during the same time of finishing EPISODE VIII-I cant help wonder how much residual elements from that score MAY have actually sweeped into DEAR BASKETBALL. While both projects are from different universes; I cant help but feel that the warmth emotional sophisticated tone of this short film may have been somewhat influenced by what ever Williams penned for STAR WARS. A new theme for the training of Rey and perhaps a moving new emotional theme for Reys past could be it. Plus Williams used the very same orchestra suggests that he remained in the same idiom of Episode VIII. Your thoughts people?

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13 hours ago, nightscape94 said:

Just watched the short and some of the interview material concerning Williams.  I dislike Bryant as a person, so it's hard getting past that, but taken on its own it's a very nice little piece of animation with lovely music.

 

Based on his personality in this or because you know of him previously? My being English, I'm completely ignorant of basketball stars. 

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1 hour ago, Quintus said:

 

Based on his personality in this or because you know of him previously? My being English, I'm completely ignorant of basketball stars. 

He was aligned in a rape case which was settled out of court. He said it was consensual. The case had a toll on his marriage and almost led to divorce. I too didnt know about Kobe Bryant until the 'Dear Basketball' project. He was also present in the AFI tribute to Williams.

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7 hours ago, azahid said:

From the video interviews detailing how Williams got attached to the project and how he managed to score this wonderful piece during the same time of finishing EPISODE VIII-I cant help wonder how much residual elements from that score MAY have actually sweeped into DEAR BASKETBALL. While both projects are from different universes; I cant help but feel that the warmth emotional sophisticated tone of this short film may have been somewhat influenced by what ever Williams penned for STAR WARS. A new theme for the training of Rey and perhaps a moving new emotional theme for Reys past could be it. Plus Williams used the very same orchestra suggests that he remained in the same idiom of Episode VIII. Your thoughts people?

 

I wouldn't be too surprised, or if something similar shows up in RPO or The Post. These things do tend to bleed into each other when he's working on projects in such close proximity.

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36 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

I wouldn't be too surprised, or if something similar shows up in RPO or The Post. These things do tend to bleed into each other when he's working on projects in such close proximity.

 

Very true and evidenced a lot between War of the Worlds/Revenge of the Sith, Chamber of Secrets/Attack of the Clones, Minority Report/Artificial Intelligence, etc.

 

Makes those years he scored double headers like Azkaban/Terminal, War Horse/Tintin and Force Awakens/BFG head-scratchers, though. :lol:

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Memoirs and Munich don't have much in common either, I guess.

 

Meanwhile Memoirs in TFA is one of his most blatant steals and those were a decade apart (and I guess that basically originated in Seven Years in Tibet so add another decade?) so who really knows when and where these things will pop up.

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8 minutes ago, king mark said:

 

only the music matters

 

 

I agree.  There might have been a rape, but then again, there might not have been.  We do know Spielberg and co are friends with Polanski, who not only raped, he drugged, and she was a kid.  Either this sort of stuff should affect every movie and related music discussion or it should be left out.  I vote for the latter.

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25 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 

Meanwhile Memoirs in TFA is one of his most blatant steals and those were a decade apart (and I guess that basically originated in Seven Years in Tibet so add another decade?)

 

Yep, blatant and wisely left off the OST. There's also that distracting Superman ostinato in The Bombing Run, also omitted.

 

Gotta wonder why those motifs would just randomly pop up so many years later.

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1 hour ago, Tom said:

I agree.  There might have been a rape, but then again, there might not have been.  We do know Spielberg and co are friends with Polanski, who not only raped, he drugged, and she was a kid.  Either this sort of stuff should affect every movie and related music discussion or it should be left out.  I vote for the latter.

 

This is obviously becoming more and more of an issue these days...a discussion worth having, but I can't be in the business of evaluating the decisions of people I don't know on whether or not they should enter artistic collaborations or personal friendships with felons, accused felons, everyday assholes etc. Whether JW knew about this case and decided to associate himself with Kobe Bryant anyway or he's just ignorant of it, who knows. His call. 

 

It does make the project a little extra squeamish just because it is Bryant basically portraying himself in this wondrously positive and inspiring light through these great artists...not the best look for John Williams but his reputation will survive. As for me, I'm here for the music and not always the meaning behind it. I don't really see it as much different from my ability to appreciate a score without seeing or knowing anything about the film.

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10 hours ago, azahid said:

From the video interviews detailing how Williams got attached to the project and how he managed to score this wonderful piece during the same time of finishing EPISODE VIII-I cant help wonder how much residual elements from that score MAY have actually sweeped into DEAR BASKETBALL. While both projects are from different universes; I cant help but feel that the warmth emotional sophisticated tone of this short film may have been somewhat influenced by what ever Williams penned for STAR WARS. A new theme for the training of Rey and perhaps a moving new emotional theme for Reys past could be it. Plus Williams used the very same orchestra suggests that he remained in the same idiom of Episode VIII. Your thoughts people?

 

Great point in general.

 

I do think though that by "same orchestra" he was simply referring to the LA freelance one -- which he uses on every project now.

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5 hours ago, Fal said:

Are we seriously considering stylistic tendencies motifs now?

 

Most of this kind of stuff can pretty clearly be put down to style, but I dunno, that Memoirs/TFA riff is a pretty solid melodic and rhythmic idea there, near-identical orchestration even, repeated frequently through those sequences. That's one of the few that I hear as an actual unique motif/ostinato accidentally (?) repurposed rather than just a style thing. 

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Fun fact, that "motif" really only shows up twice, in the final film, the music was shifted around creating the impression that it was used in three seperate cues

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21 hours ago, azahid said:

From the video interviews detailing how Williams got attached to the project and how he managed to score this wonderful piece during the same time of finishing EPISODE VIII-I cant help wonder how much residual elements from that score MAY have actually sweeped into DEAR BASKETBALL. While both projects are from different universes; I cant help but feel that the warmth emotional sophisticated tone of this short film may have been somewhat influenced by what ever Williams penned for STAR WARS. A new theme for the training of Rey and perhaps a moving new emotional theme for Reys past could be it. Plus Williams used the very same orchestra suggests that he remained in the same idiom of Episode VIII. Your thoughts people?

 

I highly doubt it. Williams has a knack of going into a project and leaving another behind unless it is in that vein of scoring. This is more like Leaving hogwarts / The BFG with a little Americana thrown in. It would hardly fit in to star wars on any level. Completely different chord structures and modulations. It would fit more in Disney (and yes Star Wars is now Disney, but I mean the animations of old).

 

It's very warm and heartfelt. Whether he releases it or not as it is here, I bet he makes a concert version of it which will be released on an album. Since it is really based on one theme, the concert version where he can organically have time to develop the theme and make an actual piece of it would suit me better anyway. I'm happy to wait for that version for my listening.

 

As for this supposed assault or non assault. I don't get into any of that. If I did most of the people I listen to and watch on screen I'd have to throw out. I separate the personal from the artist and enjoy the artist. Otherwise forget most of the movies and tv you all are happy to watch. Casting Couch anyone?

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6 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

I was never the type to get in fights as a kid, but I think I would have wanted to beat the crap out of Will!

 

Yeah I would never risk saying any of this stuff in real life LOL. And don't take it too seriously anyway. Just my rambling musings. 

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On 4/27/2017 at 11:41 AM, crumbs said:

 

Yep, blatant and wisely left off the OST. There's also that distracting Superman ostinato in The Bombing Run, also omitted.

 

Gotta wonder why those motifs would just randomly pop up so many years later.

 

That Memoirs melody sounds incredibly familiar, but I can't place it in any of the unreleased tracks I have from TFA.  Where's it from?

 

Also, is the bit in "The Bombing Run" the opening seconds of the cue?  I assumed you meant, you know, The Ostinato from Superman, but I guess I would have noticed that on my own.  Where in Superman does this one show up?

 

I actually think someone could do a really interesting analysis of the "phases" or "families" of JW's career.  There's also some material in 1941 that sounds a bit like Superman; there's a bit of Home Alone in Hook; there's some TESB in Raiders; and on and on.  They're usually much more confined to a certain era, though.  But then on the other hand, I was just Spotifying Midway the other day and heard something resembling the Resistance March.

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4 hours ago, igger6 said:

 

That Memoirs melody sounds incredibly familiar, but I can't place it in any of the unreleased tracks I have from TFA.  Where's it from?

If I recall correctly JW uses it for shots after Falcon makes its jump from light speed to the Star Killer base and the heroes make their trek to the nearest entrance of the installation and we get a wide shot of the snow clad landscape.

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24 minutes ago, Incanus said:

If I recall correctly JW uses it for shots after Falcon makes its jump from light speed to the Star Killer base and the heroes make their trek to the nearest entrance of the installation and we get a wide shot of the snow clad landscape.

 

 

Also at various points here while Rey sneaks around Starkiller:

 

4 hours ago, igger6 said:

Also, is the bit in "The Bombing Run" the opening seconds of the cue?  I assumed you meant, you know, The Ostinato from Superman, but I guess I would have noticed that on my own.  Where in Superman does this one show up?

 

 

Oops, not The Bombing Run but the FYC version of Ways of the Force:

 

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That first clip (over the wide shot of the snow) sounds like Seven Years in Tibet meets Memoirs of a Geisha. I love those random little surprises in JW scores.

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So he lifted sections wholesale from both Phantom Menace and Memoirs for TFA? I wonder why, or if he even knew he'd used them before?  I have this funny image of him keeping notebooks of music to possibly use in future scores and forgetting to tear those pages out when he used them the first time ;) 

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2 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

So he lifted sections wholesale from both Phantom Menace and Memoirs for TFA? I wonder why, or if he even knew he'd used them before?  I have this funny image of him keeping notebooks of music to possibly use in future scores and forgetting to tear those pages out when he used them the first time ;) 

 

The craziest one, if you recall, was the "Finn's Confession" quote of TPM. 

 

I still wonder if Williams literally just forgot he ever wrote it! 

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18 minutes ago, Will said:

 

The craziest one, if you recall, was the "Finn's Confession" quote of TPM. 

 

I still wonder if Williams literally just forgot he ever wrote it! 

 

That's what I have to imagine!

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That same motif appears twice in TPM too. At the end when the Trade Federation surrenders and somewhere else on Tatooine I think. "Are You A Jedi?" or something?

 

But yeah it's an unusually specific reference and I can't imagine JJ asking for it. I could easily see those tracks being used in the temp but can't see how Williams would've been influenced by it (unless he asked to hear the temp for that particular scene, which seems incredibly unlikely).

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It would require someone asking Williams directly.  It's a very awkward, semi-accusatory thing to ask a composer.  I certainly wouldn't be brave enough to do it if I was a journalist who got to interview him.

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That memoirs sounding material really changes the whole texture of the score during the 3rd act. I never even noticed it was there. 

 

And that TPM quote during Finn's Confession is gonna be a headscratcher until someone gets an answer directly from JW. It's such random material to quote, and I could almost believe he just wrote it newly on accident.

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Oh, hearing the Superman thing now, I don't buy it.  I get the similarity in a superficial way, but that high note in the second phrase makes it sound completely different.  I mean, if we're going that route, Mola Ram's theme in TOD has an identical opening phrase to Superman, and it's a major, repeated motif in that score.  This is a one-off accompaniment to an action variant of a pre-existing theme.

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3 hours ago, artguy360 said:

That memoirs sounding material really changes the whole texture of the score during the 3rd act. I never even noticed it was there. 

 

Texturally it's very unique amongst the rest of his score for TFA. In an otherwise 'dry' score, this section of strings is quite 'lush'.

 

I wonder what part of the scoring process he wrote those scenes? Very early when he was getting back into the rhythm of Star Wars, or very late when he was stuck in endless rewrites? It's not particularly Star Wars-ian but, then again, he redefines the sound of the series with each film.

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