karelm 2,912 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 After just seeing The BFG, I am in sweetness overdose. It made me wonder, what work of Williams would best represent him in complete angst? I struggled to find this emotion in his films. Perhaps something like The Basket and The Ferry Scene from WOTW? Anything else in his body of work that is more foreboding or showing deeper anxiety? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 2, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 2, 2016 Fantastic idea for a thread. There are actually many Williams moments that make me outright uncomfortable in their capturing of "angst." Must think about this. But one that comes to mind instantly is the music while Palpatine is electrocuting Luke, just before the statement of the Force theme. Incredibly disturbing and unsettling. Gruesome Son of a Bitch, Naïve Old Fart, Sharkissimo and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Absolutely. ROTJ is a score rich in this kind of heightened, almost expressionistic writing. The Vader/Force theme interplay in Faking the Code comes to mind, as well. Dixon Hill and Jilal 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted July 2, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 2, 2016 Yeah, "The Emperor" is one of the best. How about "Leo Crow...The Confrontation" from Minority Report! It's a suspenseful eerie buildup to a massive explosion of orchestral angst. Dixon Hill, Not Mr. Big and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Fuckin' A! Yeah. Also the darkest parts of A.I. make me feel off for days after listening. JW spouting some existential truths there.... JacksonElmore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 "Sierra Leone, 1839 And The Capture Of Cinque" from Amistad Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Most recently, "Torn Apart" from TFA OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I completely agree about the music from ROTJ. "The Emperor's Death" gives me chills every time. However, I think every Star Wars film has an "angst" piece even in the original (Burning Homestead, for example). So, aside from Star Wars, this comes to mind as well: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 "Remembering Carolyn', and " Barbara's Confession " always do it for me. "Presumed Innocent" is soaked in angst. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon McBride 113 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I think that Across the Stars is a good theme for an angsty relationship. Too bad the acting messed it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 2,835 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 The version of Rey's theme in "The Abduction" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Black Sunday is also full of angst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 You guys are missing the most obvious of all: IMAGES! Even the film itself is about 'angst'. All the aleatoric cues would qualify. I would also have mentioned THE SCREAMING WOMAN (which is also very much a film about paranoia and angst), but most things indicate he only wrote the end track on that, and not the wildly dissonant music otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 The Violin Concerto. I often have panick attack (and sometimes when I listen to some sort of music... hey, music is like hypnosis), it's a piece that I really don't like, it's too emotionally charged. I hear attack music, I feel attacked. I hear sad music, I feel sad. Music have a direct connection to my emotions. I have to be carefull as I get older. It took me several years to understand that I don't have to hear music I don't want to hear. I'm a collector and passionate of several artists... that's hard, because sometimes we have to hear everything... the worst and the best. But now, all my life is dedicated to trying to find the right music to listen at the right moment and at the right place. Wrong choices can lead to panick attacks. Now I know and I stop the music when it occurs. I don't have to listen to music of aliens destroying a town when I'm on the bus. If I watch the movie, it's okay... But in the bus, that's not ok. I'm already prisonner of a moving box with people I don't know, I don't need to feel insecure and attacked by aliens in that particular moment! So yes, it means when listening to a score or a classical piece, to skip the angst or too heavy passages when I'm not in the mood for listening them. That's life. Of course, Images, that's a score I can't bare. This week I listened to Lost in Space scores... after one album and a half, I felt totally depressed and weary of my life... that dissonant sixties sci-fi atmosphere... it drained all my energy. I didn't like it at all. BLUMENKOHL and Incanus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Angst is a cool word indeed, gents, but there are enough synonyms out there. Embrace the richness of the English language. Off the top of my head: The Emperor Confronts Luke, Faking the Code, The Emperor's Death (and more ROTJ moments), The Intersection Scene, Escape from the Basket (and more WOTW moments), the opening of The Probe Scanner, The Duel, the unused music for the first part of the Vader-Luke duel (ESB), Jonathan's Death (Superman - this is one of my favorite ones). That's about all I can think of, right now. I'd say the Superman and ROTJ ones are the moments that most resonate with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 ToD, when Indy is being possessed maybe? Your browser does not support the audio element. Some of the later tracks in HP1 also sound to me like a mixture of angst and despair: 0:00-0:56 I like to imagine exploring a haunted house when listening to this. The numerous changes in tempo and texture, as well as the occasional jump scares (e.g. 2:20) seem to musically resemble that sense of dread and anxiety you get when exploring a dark and abandoned location with possible spectral inhabitants. Of course, the track probably does the best job supporting the actual mirror scene in the film which it accompanies, but it's one of those particularly visual tracks which can bring about a range of "scenarios" in the listener's mind... Sharkissimo and Cerebral Cortex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 4 minutes ago, loert said: ToD, when Indy is being possessed may. Definitively, this score has some heavy passages I usually skip when I'm not in the mood for a ritual sacrifice and a heart removal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Cues like that of TEMPLE OF DOOM is not really angst, IMO. It's more physical terror. Angst, to me, is a more psychological concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 6 hours ago, someonefun124 said: I completely agree about the music from ROTJ. "The Emperor's Death" gives me chills every time. However, I think every Star Wars film has an "angst" piece even in the original (Burning Homestead, for example). So, aside from Star Wars, this comes to mind as well: This is to me more depicts fear in the face of God. Angst would be something tortured or neurotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Some of the cues in 'The Fury'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Heinrich's theme from Seven Years in Tibet. There numerous passages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,041 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 The buildup at the end of TLW's "The Compys Dine", perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,191 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 4 hours ago, publicist said: Some of the cues in 'The Fury'. I was wondering if anyone (other than me) was going to mention it. Though I guess most of the bigger cues are more on the physical side. The angst stuff is mostly in the tenser, mysterious underscore (like Gillian touching the staircase at night) and the actual main theme itself. Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,912 Posted July 2, 2016 Author Share Posted July 2, 2016 How about the first half of Close Encounters? Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crocodile 8,000 Posted July 2, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 2, 2016 Karol KK, Gnome in Plaid, publicist and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,714 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Good choices here. One "recent" example of angsty writing is the lengthy Bearing the Burden from Munich, which I think is a great musical portrait of gnawing and building psychological angst. Bespin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,000 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 A slightly different type of John Williams angst: Karol Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 214 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 No love for Arlington, from JFK? crocodile and Naïve Old Fart 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,513 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 2 hours ago, crocodile said: A slightly different type of John Williams angst: Karol Yes, yes, yes!!!!!!? Croc, I love this track!!!!!!!!! 23 minutes ago, Joe Brausam said: No love for Arlington, from JFK? There's a hellovalotta love for "Arlington Cemetery' at chez Richard!!!!!!!!! Joe Brausam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,000 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 A lot of love for Arlington over here: Karol Joe Brausam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 So in what way does "angst" differ from "fear"? Because fear is what it means in Dutch, which always makes it quite a strange term to see used in an otherwise English context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Some excellent suggestions here. This passage (0:56-1:35) oozes angst for me. Few scores sound as hauntingly tortured to me: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 7 hours ago, Pieter_Boelen said: So in what way does "angst" differ from "fear"? Because fear is what it means in Dutch, which always makes it quite a strange term to see used in an otherwise English context. Angst is more like unease -- a term encompassing other psychological states such as paranoia. Several of the suggestions here are more in the 'fear' or 'terror' or 'physical horror'-type landscapes, IMO. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 "Anakin's Dark Deeds" and "Enter Lord Vader" There's those seething passages underscoring the evil and trepidation of the scenes they accompany. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Many of the examples given portray fear or dread or suspense rather then specifically angst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 I just looked it up and apparently the English word "angst" is indeed based on the North European one (Dutch, German, Danish and Norwegian). And in the "original" Dutch it does mean quite simply "fear". It seems that in English for some reason it is meant to refer to a very specific type of fear and not the general term. That makes this particular word relatively ambiguous and confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KK 3,307 Posted July 3, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 3, 2016 This one always gets to me: Loert, karelm and artguy360 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 That one is truly haunting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Surprised nobody has mentioned 3:57 onwards in this: The one where Williams lavished exciting high anxiety into the angsty finale of TESB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,191 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 I don't quite agree. It was one of the first cues I thought of. But the bits of Luke hanging from Cloud City are more about pain and hopelessness, I think. The specific timestamp you refer to is a tension buildup to a specific moment (the Falcon coming to the rescue). The Vader/Luke connection later in Hyperspace might qualify though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Yeah, I was about to say. The crazy strings and brass right before the Hyperspace motif returns towards the end. What an awesome cue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,912 Posted July 3, 2016 Author Share Posted July 3, 2016 4 hours ago, Pieter_Boelen said: I just looked it up and apparently the English word "angst" is indeed based on the North European one (Dutch, German, Danish and Norwegian). And in the "original" Dutch it does mean quite simply "fear". It seems that in English for some reason it is meant to refer to a very specific type of fear and not the general term. That makes this particular word relatively ambiguous and confusing. It's not quite the same as fear. It is more general so think of it as anxiety, anguish (which have the same root). So like a heavy tension. I found that like you said, in other languages the meaning of the original Latin word meant "fear", but the language derived words differ in meaning to be non-specific general sense of turmoil or dread. To me, I find this emotion in music to be more consistently found in Goldsmith or Goldenthal. For example, Poltergeist or Alien, Alien 3 are full of that sense of turmoil and dread...not the action stingers or the religioso moments but just the general tone. I think WOTW and Minority Reports are great examples of JW in this mode but Arlington is really more sorrowful than angst. But these are all good examples of JW in non-grandfatherly sweetness. 2 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said: I don't quite agree. It was one of the first cues I thought of. But the bits of Luke hanging from Cloud City are more about pain and hopelessness, I think. The specific timestamp you refer to is a tension buildup to a specific moment (the Falcon coming to the rescue). The Vader/Luke connection later in Hyperspace might qualify though. I agree with you. These are nuanced emotions and not quite the same. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Has this been brought up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 9 minutes ago, Muad'Dib said: Has this been brought up? No, but it doesn't connote angst to me. It connotes religious reverence, sadness etc. This really just cements what I've been saying -- it's a term meaning different things to different folks, so it would need some serious specification in order to make sense; to provide some "common platform" from which we can suggest stuff. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omen II 1,235 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 On 2 July 2016 at 2:30 AM, karelm said: After just seeing The BFG, I am in sweetness overdose. It made me wonder, what work of Williams would best represent him in complete angst? The first piece I thought of was the end titles from The Poseidon Adventure. In 'group jeopardy' movies today we are more likely to hear a heroic power anthem or music that speaks of relief when the protagonists are saved, but in this seminal disaster movie Williams reserves some of his most anguished scoring for the moments when the six survivors realise they are being rescued (as the rescuers cut through the hull) and prepare to board the helicopter. It is music that paints a picture of grief at the loss of loved ones and guilt at one's own survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 People here are mixing terror and horror to angst. I have a candinate, from SL. I couldn't find it but the music when bastian shweinsteiger's looking nazi is yelling in front of the flames. Not Mr. Big and TownerFan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,912 Posted July 3, 2016 Author Share Posted July 3, 2016 15 minutes ago, hornist said: People here are mixing terror and horror to angst. I have a candinate, from SL. I couldn't find it but the music when bastian shweinsteiger's looking nazi is yelling in front of the flames. Agreed, alot of mixing of nuanced emotions here but its all good since these cues I needed to remember. It is also an important point for a composer to understand (or have an opinion) about what these various nuanced moods sound like. For example, there is a difference between joy and happiness and they sound different. Is this the scene you are referring to? Very Mahlerian there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulky 6 Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Sweinsteiger! Great player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 The second movement of the Violin Concerto. The range of emotions displayed there is pretty ample, but there's surely angst there especially the section from 2:45 to 4:30 (the final crescendo always gives me goosebumps) Bespin and karelm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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