Repetition in classical music... why?

[bollemanneke 3,348]

Okay, so I grew up with baroque music but have increasingly been turning away from it and early romantic music because one thing keeps driving me crazy: REPETITION. Could anyone here explain to me why those composers felt the need to write long pieces that could be twice as short and much more exciting if they didn't repeat every single thing at least once? I'm astounded no one is recording things like Mozart's symphonies or Handel's water music without repetitions as it would make things much more interesting (and less long...)

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Sweet fancy Moses. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Bums on seats?

 

No audience member was gonna pay for a 20 minute symphony, so they padded them out.

[Bespin 8,481]

Where to begin... A long time ago... when there was no television... long before the invention of the phonograph...

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Quote

During the Classical era, musical concerts were highly expected events, and because someone who liked a piece of music could not listen to it again, musicians had to think of a way to make the music sink in. Therefore, they would repeat parts of their song at times, making music like sonata very repetitive, without being dull.(Bowen)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repetition_(music)

 

BTW, this is a crazy stance to have, opposing repetition in classical music.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

This was before the invention of the gramophone...or the MP3....

[Disco Stu 15,495]

And of course a truly great composer can repeat melodies with subtle variations and developments that are one of the most pleasurable aspects of listening to music from that era.

[bollemanneke 3,348]

Why is opossing repetition wrong? Take the fifth movement of Handel's royal fireworks, for example. It's a nice idea, but it doesn't become one if you repeat it at least three times with different instruments. I get it after one time too. The history bit from Wikipedia was interesting, though.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

It's not wrong.  Just weird.

 

Lord knows how you feel about pop songs like "Hey Jude"

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Does repetition in architecture also bother you?  Are you bored by seeing the same thing twice even though it may be responsible for you not being killed by a collapsing structure?  Do you see that musical structure in a classical sense isn't about instant gratification through a constant stream of new exciting tunes?  Are you just opposed to symmetry?  Does the repetition of verses and choruses in pop music bother you?  What about when Rowling repeats certain phrases like "the boy who lived?"  Do you get bored because you've already read that a billion times? 

[bollemanneke 3,348]

Oh God, what did I start? Repetition doesn't bother me as long as it's not done immediately after its first instance. I don't mind The Boy Who Lived as long as she doesn't fill one page with it. I don't mind JW repeating a variation on a theme as long as it's different. I do mind literally repeating the same five bars after you just wrote those bars.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Repetition of a good melody is such an inherently pleasurable psychological experience to me.  It's genuinely interesting to see a different perspective.  Of course if it's not good music in the first place, who wants to hear it repeated.

[bollemanneke 3,348]

Agreed. I guess my problem then is that it doesn't inspire me sufficiently.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I would imagine you are also not a fan of electronic music?  After all, most electronic music is built around literal loops of the same music repeated at great length with variations and counter-melodies added and removed.

[bollemanneke 3,348]

No I'm not a fan of that at all.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I think you should look into learning about musical form if you truly want this question answered rather than asking here.  Otherwise you'll get people arguing with you and you'll dig in and tell yourself you were right all along.

[bollemanneke 3,348]

Right. It just seemed easier to ask it here first.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yeah I just think judging by what you're saying, nothing conversational is going to convince you.  Look it up and you'll at least know the reasons clearly, whether or not it changes your mind.  

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

17 minutes ago, TheWhiteRider said:

Does repetition in architecture also bother you?  Are you bored by seeing the same thing twice even though it may be responsible for you not being killed by a collapsing structure? 

 

remember you are asking a blind person

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

What?

[Jay 37,359]

@bollemanneke is blind.  How is that confusing to you?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I didn't know that.  How is that confusing to you?

 

And actually it is confusing.  How does posting here work?

[Jay 37,359]

Have you never heard of braille?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Never seen Sneakers?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Accessibility for Internet use has come a long way.

[Jay 37,359]

And for movie watching as well

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

Have you never heard of braille?

 

What do you think, Jay?

 

 

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Shall we introduce bollemanneke to Brian Ferneyhough?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Answering a stupid question with a stupid question.

[Faleel 5,347]

Have you never heard of seeing eye dogs?

[Jay 37,359]

If you've heard of it, then why did you ask how posting works?

[Faleel 5,347]

Maybe he was genuinely interested in knowing the exact details of the process.

 

Whether it was through Braille or  person reading our posts aloud to him

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

What I was more curious about is how the content posted here by others is communicated to the user.  Perhaps I phrased it poorly.  Sorry about that.  

[Jilal 569]

Because there aren't enough notes to pick from.

[Jay 37,359]

There are ways to either have websites spoken out loud to you, or to be converted to braille to be read with fingertips (or you could do both at once I suppose)

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Still, you're missing out on gifs and avatars.

[Jay 37,359]

Yes, of course.

[Jilal 569]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

There is ways

 

Quoting this for future reference.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

9 minutes ago, Sharkus Malarkus said:

Shall we introduce bollemanneke to Brian Ferneyhough?

 

I was thinking Morton Feldman. 

[Faleel 5,347]

You know, I could kinda understand how a blind person would listen to music differently, and since music could be one of their few chances to sort of see through visualizing the music (If that actually happens with blind people) and so that it could be  equivalent of driving through boring flat fields for hours to some

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

14 minutes ago, Fennel Ka said:

You know, I could kinda understand how a blind person would listen to music differently, and since music could be one of their few chances to sort of see through visualizing the music (If that actually happens with blind people) and so that it could be  equivalent of driving through boring flat fields for hours to some

 

I agree. Knowing that now, it does make me reconsider this thread and other questionable posts on music that bollemanneke has made over the years (no tolerance for dissonance etc.). From what I understand, without the sense of sight, to compensate the remaining senses become more finely attuned. If you have to rely on sound, then perhaps you become more easily bored (auditory fatigue?) by repetition than the rest of us, while dissonance has a kind of sensory overload effect. Just a thought.

 

 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

It adds an interesting wrinkle to things, yes.

 

I'm not blind, as it turns out, but a lot of how I perceive music does take some sort of vaguely visual form.  And I tend to prefer that which "looks" smoother, for lack of a better word.  

[A24 4,333]

The modern avant-garde movement of the 20th Century hated melody, let alone repeating it.

[bollemanneke 3,348]

So, to answer the question, no, repetition in architecture does not bother me. Some gifs are actually described by screenreaders and Apple and Facebook have been working on that too. Interesting posts about why I dislike dissonance too, never gave that a thought. And believe me, some of your signatures here make up for the fact that I can't see the avatars!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Are you familiar with blind composers like Louis Vierne and Jean Langlais?  It would be interesting to hear to what degree you feel something different in their music from that of others, if at all. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

28 minutes ago, Sharkus Malarkus said:

 

I agree. Knowing that now, it does make me reconsider this thread and other questionable posts on music that bollemanneke has made over the years (no tolerance for dissonance etc.). From what I understand, without the sense of sight, to compensate the remaining senses become more finely attuned. If you have to rely on sound, then perhaps you become more easily bored (auditory fatigue?) by repetition than the rest of us, while dissonance has a kind of sensory overload effect. Just a thought.

 

 

 

You smug sanctimonious prig! You thought Bollemanneke was an idiot, but now because you fine out he's disabled it's suddenly all fine!

I bet you think Oscar Pistorius should have been let off too!

[bollemanneke 3,348]

Hey, don't bring that vomiting triggerhappy man into my thread!

No I'm not, but will check them out. I can tell you, however, that most of Patrick Doyle's music has always deeply moved me, more than any other composer.

[Bespin 8,481]

6 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Take the fifth movement of Handel's royal fireworks, for example. It's a nice idea, but it doesn't become one if you repeat it at least three times with different instruments. I get it after one time too.

 

We have to give the time for fireworks to explode!

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

28 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Hey, don't bring that vomiting triggerhappy man into my thread!

 

It's your thread...but it's my forum! You got a problem with that? (Ennio Morricone Western music playing)

[Faleel 5,347]

Someone quickly whipup a photoshop manip of Stefancos as Clint Eastwood in the Dollars Trilogy!