Michael Giacchino's SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING (2017)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[A. A. Ron 1,736]

I hear Junkie XL's free...

[Disco Stu 15,495]

4 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Is there still a chance for Elfman to replace Giacchino on this project or is it too late?

 

"Mr. Elfman, you have 5 days to compose and record a new score."

 

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

 

YOU DON'T LIKE GIACCHINO MUSIC, DO YOU

[crumbs 14,287]

Mediocre doesn't even begin to describe that "suite."

 

I can't believe how far this guy has fallen as a composer, someone I used to champion after his string of earlier works. He's become the poster boy for phoned-in-orchestral-scores.

 

Increasingly his scores sound like his first writing pass goes straight to the musicians. Now he's scoring 6 films a year, he clearly can't be bothered refining his music nor cares whether his chord progressions are as generic and predictable as a first-year music student.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Told ya!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

The opening 6 notes of the main theme remind me of the opening of the main harp melody in "Stargazers."

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

38 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Desplat does that all the time with no problem! 13 scores is a normal year for him!

 

Displat is inoffensive but also often uninspired. He's a great technician, so his scores are always well produced and sophisticated but not really something that excite you. He probably writes a really interesting score every 10th or 20th score probably. 

 

Giacchino in his best scores can be dazzling.

[crumbs 14,287]

But he hasn't always been this way! There was genuine care put into his musical craft ten years ago.

 

Listen to Ratatouille for example, then compare it to this generic, lazy dreck.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

It's the Curse of the MCU Score.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

3 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Displat is inoffensive but also often uninspired. He's a great technician, so his scores are always well produced and sophisticated but not really something that excite you. He probably writes a really interesting score every 10th or 20th score probably.

 

I disagree, but OK.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

I want Giacchino to score The Last Jedi so we can have the track title "Now This is Pod Rey-cing".

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

One good thing in Gia's favor - in movie, his scores play will more often than not. Even in Stars Wars, his music in film made an impact in the film. 

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

Winnie the Poe

Kylo Ren There, Done That

 

C'mon guys, help me out here! 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

6 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

One good thing in Gia's favor - in movie, his scores play will more often than not. Even in Stars Wars, his music in film made an impact in the film. 

 

Yes there was an impact.  I recoiled in disgust when the Rogue One title card came up.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

But it broke new ground! 

[Arpy 4,145]

4 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Yes there was an impact.  I recoiled in disgust when the Rogue One title card came up.

The title card theme was bad, everything else was good though.

Maybe a discussion suited for the relevant thread, but don't you think if they were going to cut out a opening crawl, why they would even need a title card there at all, and a scored title card to boot? 

 

It doesn't even fit dramatically with the scenes it is squashed between.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just now, RPurton said:

The title card theme was bad, everything else was good though.

Maybe a discussion suited for the relevant thread, but don't you think if they were going to cut out a opening crawl, why they would even need a title card there at all, and a scored title card to boot? 

 

I do agree there's some good stuff in the score.  Although I also hate his Imperial theme.  I've stated elsewhere it sounds like a parody of the Imperial March more suited for something like Spaceballs.  It's catchy but feels completely inappropriate in the film.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

4 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Yes there was an impact.  I recoiled in disgust when the Rogue One title card came up.

 

The hope theme is pure cheese. The other themes are good. Krennick's theme is a keeper.

[Jay 37,249]

Despite this suite not doing much for me, I'm nowhere nearing giving up on Giacchino because Book of Henry is aces, I'm on my third listen already

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just now, TheUlyssesian said:

Krennick's theme is a keeper.

 

Yes, easily the best part of that score.

[Arpy 4,145]

I'm going to wait until the score is released to pass up judgement, a suite isn't always indicative of the score anyway, not like JW's credit suites/suites anyway.

2 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Yes, easily the best part of that score.

Along with Jyn's Theme it seems like Giacchino was confident and enjoyed writing them in. Seems the director/producers thought so too...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

13 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said:

Winnie the Poe

Kylo Ren There, Done That

 

C'mon guys, help me out here! 

 

 

[Bilbo 3,709]

22 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Yes there was an impact.  I recoiled in disgust when the Rogue One title card came up.

 

Ive seen the film 8 or 9 times at least and I still recoil every time! It's horrible!

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

...I'm pretty sure there are movies out there much more worthy of watching 8 or 9 times. 

[Bilbo 3,709]

There are no movies out there worthy of being watched that many times.

 

I'm a total fanboy though so it's different than just watching a regular film 8 or 9 times.

 

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

I've said this after every one of his recent scores, but it seems undeniable now.  It is time to abandon this guy.  Lost was a fluke, and he will at least have a legacy from that.  Stop smearing it with turds.  It is over. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Crazy!

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

1 minute ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

There are no movies out there worthy of being watched that many times.

 

I'm a total fanboy though so it's different than just watching a regular film 8 or 9 times.

 

Gremlins 2, King Kong, Great Muppet Caper, Harry and Tonto, Dumbo, Little Mermaid, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes and Jaws would all like a word with you. 

[Bilbo 3,709]

Tell them to piss off!

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

I've seen many movies more than 10 times. Recently I saw Legally Blonde for the 12th.  Great flick. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

9 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Ive seen the film 8 or 9 times at least and I still recoil every time! It's horrible!

 

In my edit of the score, I've cut the Hope theme statement right after the buildup. The track is so much better with an abrupt ending!

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

I wish Giacchino's path had led him more frequently towards smaller and more intimate affairs instead of large-scale blockbuster after blockbuster. With the exception of one or two soundtracks, I feel like that is where Giacchino more frequently works for me, and even in his larger scores I tend to more frequently gravitate towards his quieter moments. Listening to his score for The Book of Henry only reaffirms this for me.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

2 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Tell them to piss off!

Now was that civilized? No, clearly not. Fun, but in no sense civilized! 

[Bilbo 3,709]

2 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

In my edit of the score, I've cut the Hope theme statement right after the buildup. The track is so much better with an abrupt ending!

 

That's pretty damning. 

 

1 minute ago, kaseykockroach said:

Now was that civilized? No, clearly not. Fun, but in no sense civilized! 

 

I had my fun and that's all that matters.

[Fancyarcher 350]

Hmm that wasn't so bad, just kinda there, the average Spider-Man score I guess. Reminds me of Tyler at points, like Marvel asked Giacchino to do the RC sound or something, at least he's trying something a little different I guess, but eh.

 

I liked the middle "dramatic" part at least.

 

14 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Displat is inoffensive but also often uninspired. He's a great technician, so his scores are always well produced and sophisticated but not really something that excite you. He probably writes a really interesting score every 10th or 20th score probably. 

 

For me, "Desplat" actually writes interesting scores a-lot of the time. Unlike Giacchino he doesn't rely largely on blockbusters, and is actually very versatile too. 

[leeallen01 2,133]

I was hoping for a melody...

 

Sure there's some enjoyable stuff in that suite, but I fear that many composers don't understand what a melody is sometimes. They think a short motif that basically just repeats while rising, equals a melody. It isn't. 

 

The main melody in JNH's Huntsman theme is over 30 seconds long! Imagine this playing while a Superhero flies. And even though it doesn't fit Spider-Man, imagine this playing as he swings through the buildings. 

 

This is melody. This is a theme.

 

3:43 - 4:13.

 

 

[Koray Savas 2,251]

3 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

I've said this after every one of his recent scores, but it seems undeniable now.  It is time to abandon this guy.  Lost was a fluke, and he will at least have a legacy from that.  Stop smearing it with turds.  It is over. 

LOST is his magnum opus, it is no fluke!

3 hours ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

I've seen many movies more than 10 times. Recently I saw Legally Blonde for the 12th.  Great flick. 

Yeah but that movie came out what, 15 years ago? Rogue One is 6 months old...

[Faleel 5,326]

Apparently the suite is on Apple Music, and is said to sound better.

 

Not that that matters, dull music is dull music.

[mrbellamy 6,270]

Yeahhh, this went in one ear out the other.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Unfortunately after a third listen I'm on board the Negative Train.  Such standard issue Giacchino.  Interchangeable with almost every other blockbuster score of his from the last few years. Lacking any character.

[Will 2,215]

Still think that main theme sounds a lot like JW's Tintin one (at least in feel - you music-minded folks will probably claim they're nothing alike!) - compare these bits:

 

 

 

Perhaps for that reason, I certainly don't have negative feelings toward the theme. 

 

However, my lord, Gia loves those timpani rolls... 

[Arpy 4,145]

I'm really feeling the energy in places, paired with the visuals I think it'll work a treat.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

1 hour ago, Will said:

Still think that main theme sounds a lot like JW's Tintin one (at least in feel - you music-minded folks will probably claim they're nothing alike!) - compare these bits:

 

 

 

Perhaps for that reason, I certainly don't have negative feelings toward the theme. 

 

However, my lord, Gia loves those timpani rolls... 

 

I am musically illiterate. So take whatever that follows with a grain of salt.

 

Williams

E a C# F C

E a C# D# E A

Gia

a E D E F C

a E D E F# D

 

The similarity comes from the bolded notes. The first two notes of Williams and Gia are same as well as the last note of the first phrase. Only Gia's first two notes are inverted. Williams first two notes form a descending figure whereas Gia's first two notes form an ascending figure. Right there I would say, Williams is the more interesting theme. Most heroic themes are usually ascending in the first two notes, even Williams own. But Tintin is interesting because the first two notes are descending. Gia goes for the cliche route.

 

Also Williams two phrases are both fascinating and very different from each other. His phrases are of different lengths, his first phrase being shorter by one note. But there is a beat after the 4th phrase which creates a kind of anticipation as to what will the 5th note be. And the 5th note is again a descending a note. But then he again wrong foots you and the second phrase is not only 6 notes but the last note (last few notes really) are ascending, giving it a heroic flourish. So even his two phrases are diverse and interesting.

 

Gia uses the standard issue phrase construction, with the two phrases very close to each other with a slightly higher key change for the second phrase. This is just ordinary theme construction, typical of any number of power anthems. If you and me would write a theme, we would go for a similar construction. It is the most by the books format for a theme.

 

Also notice the scale, Williams in the second phrase, uses the entire octave going from a to A. This gives his theme a sense of scope and exuberance and brash boldness. Gia is stuck in his smaller selection of notes, very unimaginative.

 

There's also the orchestration. Williams is more sophisticated, the theme is expressed in a vibrant explosive manner but it's the orchestra telling you it's a wonderful expressive moment. Gia' theme in this statement just relies on noise and volume to tell you its a major statement, there isn't any sophistication.

 

So basically what you have is a masterpiece level theme from Williams, really one of his best themes. And a banal music student writing exercise RC level theme from Gia. And trust me, Gia is capable of much more.

 

 

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

On 14/06/2017 at 1:40 AM, Koray Savas said:

Spider-Man in film is trash. Insomniac's upcoming game looks better than any of the films. 

 

 

Who composed that score to that game? It sounds leagues better than what we've heard from the Gia suite.

[Mephariel 451]

13 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Desplat has never really knocked one out of the park for me.  There's always a few cues I like from his scores, but I've never fallen head over heels for anything he's done.

 

I'm not saying prolificacy is the only reason for that, but maybe it wouldn't hurt to ease up?

 

Yep. It doesn't help that he scores like the same kind of movies over and over again. The only two scores I really liked from him were Imitation Game and Godzilla. 

11 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

I wish Giacchino's path had led him more frequently towards smaller and more intimate affairs instead of large-scale blockbuster after blockbuster. With the exception of one or two soundtracks, I feel like that is where Giacchino more frequently works for me, and even in his larger scores I tend to more frequently gravitate towards his quieter moments. Listening to his score for The Book of Henry only reaffirms this for me.

 

The Book of Henry is pretty dull to me from an emotional standpoint. I think Giacchino is best in animation where he can tackle the whimsical nature of things without having to worry about being Epic. 

[Faleel 5,326]

Giacchino should stick to commercials

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

19 minutes ago, Mephariel said:

Desplat has never really knocked one out

 

He he he...

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

To me, these kinds of horns and timpani (in both MG and videogame score) don't really fit the character. The way Elfman did it worked.

[Will 2,215]

@TheUlyssesian

 

Thanks for the analysis, fascinating.